Is this right? I can tow MORE with a bumper pull than I can a Gooseneck?

[lutt]

I switched to a gooseneck for a couple reasons well more than that. Number one, there is not a bumper pull that I am aware of that I can haul both my tractor and crew ranger. They are to short. I have to tie the ramps agaisnt the ranger with part of it sitting on the dovetail. That's with the loader on the gooseneck and the backhoe turned sideways. Also, I haul livestock bedding on pallets, 45 to a pallet, 1000 pounds to a pallet. Ten at a time. See pic. A deck over is the only way to go for this and hauling round bales of hay. It's just handier for me and handles my loads much better. Which I know you can get a bumper pull deck over. I agree that it sucks for taking up bed space. I always have a 50 gallon fuel tank in the bed, roadbox and 65 quart yeti in the bed. So it's always a move out of the way game when I hook up. LUTT

 

[Ken45101]

Chris,
Do you use a WD hitch? According to Reese, I won't need one unless I want to put more than 2k lb tongue weight, up to 2500.

I don't have a problem using one, I just don't feel I need it.

Are you sure you are reading that right?

My hitch (GM factory 2007 C-3500) says weight carrying 7500# trailer wieght, 1000# hitch weight, weight distributing 12,000# trailer weight, 1500# tongue weight. BTW, that truck is rated for 15,000# gooseneck trailer weight.

Looking at the Reese website their

TRUNNION WD
Rated up to 600/6,000 lbs. Weight Carrying and 1,200/12,000 lbs. Weight Distributing

With a heavy trailer and without a weight distributing hitch, you will have too much weight on the bumper and the front end will be light, giving reduced steering control. If you balance the load on the trailer to keep the tongue weight down, all will be fine UNTIL the trailer starts swaying back and forth, a situation which can be difficult or impossible to control.

 

[bcp]

If you balance the load on the trailer to keep the tongue weight down, all will be fine UNTIL the trailer starts swaying back and forth, a situation which can be difficult or impossible to control.

Like this one:

Car Trailer Fail - Car Accident in Poland. - YouTube

Bruce

 

[Piston]

If you balance the load on the trailer to keep the tongue weight down, all will be fine UNTIL the trailer starts swaying back and forth, a situation which can be difficult or impossible to control.

Just to be clear, the reason I want a longer trailer is so I CAN balance the load better. Currently, I can't balance the load at all. I've towed the tractor, brush hog, stump grinder, box blade, and grapple numerous times the way it is, and I know there is too much tongue weight, I feel that it's only a matter of time before the hitch fails. This is the reason I'm getting the stronger hitch, and longer trailer.

I won't have any problem keeping "enough" weight on the hitch, that's not my concern at all.


Lutt,
That's an awesome picture of your truck and trailer, nice setup!

Bruce,
I can't see that youtube vid unfortunately (my work blocks youtube )

Ken,
This is the hitch I'm referring to, Titan Trailer Hitch Receiver - Custom Fit - Class V - 2-1/2" Reese Trailer Hitch 45297

Specs:
Receiver opening: 2-1/2" x 2-1/2"
Rating: Class V
Maximum gross trailer weight: 18,000 lbs
Maximum GTW when used with weight distribution: 18,000 lbs
Maximum tongue weight: 2,000 lbs
Maximum TW when used with weight distribution: 2,500 lbs


Like I mentioned before, I'm not really worried about the stability of the tow, that's not my primary goal. IT would be nice if I could have the best of both worlds, but my primary concern is fitting everything I need, which many times includes using the bed to put an implement or other tools in.

I won't really be towing a whole lot more weight than I am now, so I can only see my situation getting BETTER with a longer trailer and better hitch. Not to mention, I'm also buying a Prodigy brake controller so I'll finally be able to use my trailer brakes after all these years. That should make it a whole lot easier to stop now!

 

[Ken45101]

Like this one:

Car Trailer Fail - Car Accident in Poland. - YouTube

Bruce

You got it!

I'm no expert but I think his third mistake was hitting the brakes. (First mistake was too big of a load, second was improperly balanced.)

 

[lutt]

Thanks Piston, I posted that cause I understand what your going thru. I'm probly gonna wind up with a long bumper pull later on also. You can't have to many trailers. LUTT

 

[94BULLITT]

Have you looked at a Curt hitch? They are pretty nice and they have a better finish on them than a Reese.

Curt 15410 Class V Trailer Hitch:Amazon:Automotive

 

[Rustyiron]

Rusty,
What is the "juice" transmission? I have an automatic tranny with a deeper (higher capacity) oil pan. The code on the door sticker for the tranny is "D1" for the axle, does that tell you anything?

Juice tranny (slang) = automatic.
I ask because in my 2001 f350 a/t Ford was replacing my tranny every July for 3 years, then I got an f 450 with a gear trans. for my towing, and was wondering if you're '99 has the same? I was pulling heavy 18000# JLG man lift every few weeks (short haul), but this was with aux cooling, Amsoil, & gauges monitoring temps. and on any tow that I could, I'd use low range (hubs out) for the mechanical advantage, still burned them up. I think it has an e4od or something. I still have the truck and love it but I don't tow with it. I know, I overloaded it, but I think it is widely known to be a crap transmission.
I think you'll be happy with the b/p trlr. for your described needs. One advantage to the g/n that has not been mentioned is that chances are you're buddies will not be able to borrow it. (no hitch):laughing:

 

[GreatWhitehunter]

A gn won't weigh 6k unless you go with tandem duals. My PJ 25' weighed 4600 lbs empty, a gn is without a doubt better ride. Load placement will not be as big of an issue with the GN either. This was my last ride, an f250 with 9900 rating. It was night and day difference with this setup vs a BP.

Matt

 

[Piston]

Juice tranny (slang) = automatic.
I ask because in my 2001 f350 a/t Ford was replacing my tranny every July for 3 years, then I got an f 450 with a gear trans. for my towing, and was wondering if you're '99 has the same? I was pulling heavy 18000# JLG man lift every few weeks (short haul), but this was with aux cooling, Amsoil, & gauges monitoring temps. and on any tow that I could, I'd use low range (hubs out) for the mechanical advantage, still burned them up. I think it has an e4od or something. I still have the truck and love it but I don't tow with it. I know, I overloaded it, but I think it is widely known to be a crap transmission.
I think you'll be happy with the b/p trlr. for your described needs. One advantage to the g/n that has not been mentioned is that chances are you're buddies will not be able to borrow it. (no hitch):laughing:

I do have the Juice I think ti's the same e4od tranny, so let's hope it doesn't blow up I have the "tower of gauges" as well to monitor the temps.

A gn won't weigh 6k unless you go with tandem duals. My PJ 25' weighed 4600 lbs empty, a gn is without a doubt better ride. Load placement will not be as big of an issue with the GN either. This was my last ride, an f250 with 9900 rating. It was night and day difference with this setup vs a BP.

Matt

That's an awesome setup Matt. The trailer looks REALLY nice! I have no doubt that a GN would ride better, that's a fact, and has been beaten to death already on this short thread Once again, the "best" ride isn't my main priority, fitting all my implements is, and for that, I need space in my bed. So although I completely agree that a GN would ride better, that's besides the point. The main point was that I was surprised I can carry more weight legally with a bumper pull than I can with a GN, and I wanted to double check to make sure I was figuring this right.
Maybe now that we realize my weights were off, it may make a difference. back to the calculator...

Your right, I was looking at the weights for the tandem duals by mistake. I was looking at this brochure from PJ. http://www.pjtrailers.com/brochures/web_flatdecks.pdf They list the standard dual 25' GN as 5,100 lbs empty, so certainly a difference from the 6k I stated earlier, my mistake.

They list the bumper pull 26' as 4,340 lbs. I'm just using the PJ brochure as an example. They also state right on there that the weights may not be exact, so who knows what to believe. Bottom line is the equivalent GN will weigh more than the bumper pull, and now that Rusty convinced me that my tranny is a ticking time bomb, I better stay as light as possible :laughing:

 

[mikehaugen]

If you are planning on putting implements in the bed, that will throw off your gvwr, which is why you are technically able to tow more with bumper pull anyway. Putting a 600# box blade in the bed will essentially take away 6000# of trailer capacity. Still may be better with the gn, even if you need to get it 5 feet longer.

 

[Piston]

I could certainly be wrong here, but the way I understand it, is that for the same weight GN vs BP, you would normally have more weight on the truck for the GN since you typically have 15%-25% tongue weight, whereas the Bumper Pull would typically have 10%-15% tongue weight. This would leave more weight available to put "stuff" in the bed.

I know a lot of you are die hard GN fans, and like I said I'm not arguing that a bumper pull is better, I'm just surprised that I can pull more with the bumper pull that's all, regardless of the fact that the GN would tow "better".

By the way, where do you guys with the goosenecks put all your other "stuff"? I often carry my brush saw (weed wacker style), gas powered pole saw, two chainsaws with my "saw bag", log peavey and a few other tools. Do you still put that in the bed with the GN? I imagine you can still fit some things back there right?


Mike,
It's a good point about getting a longer GN and I'm not ruling it out, but along with extra weight of the longer gooseneck, now I have even less payload, and even more weight on the truck.


Maybe I'm looking at this all wrong, but I don't see anyway that an equivalent sized GN can carry more than an equivalent sized BP???
I can definitely see why it would carry it better though.

 

[Marveltone]

I got a 20ft, 14,000 lbs bumper pull to haul anything from firewood, to my roughly 7400 lbs Fordson behind my '05 Ram 2500CTD. With proper load placement, wagging the tail is a non-issue. I purposely chose a bumper pull over goose neck or 5th wheel because I like the option of keeping my tonneau cover closed, or putting other bulky stuff in my bed, or pulling it with a grain truck, once I get one. Sometimes versatility trumps "towing better".

Get what fits your needs, not somebody else's.

Joe

 

[mikehaugen]

Mike,
It's a good point about getting a longer GN and I'm not ruling it out, but along with extra weight of the longer gooseneck, now I have even less payload, and even more weight on the truck.

Maybe I'm looking at this all wrong, but I don't see anyway that an equivalent sized GN can carry more than an equivalent sized BP???
I can definitely see why it would carry it better though.

My point was that if you are going to put heavy stuff in the bed because there's not room enough on the trailer, it negates the advantage of the bumper pull. If you can get a longer gn and keep everything on there, you may be better off. Remember that for anything on the trailer, only 20-25% of it counts toward your gvwr... if you have to put it in the bed then 100% of it is on the truck. Run the numbers and see which is best for you, they both have advantages... and they have all been discussed here.

I personally have never pulled a gn, but would really like to try one. I have a ram 2500 ec longbed and have pulled a 28' enclosed trailer a few times that was probably around 12k ( granted it was loaded pretty nose-heavy) but even with my long wheelbase, the front axle sure unloaded an awful lot, enough that it made me want a gn.

 

[redprospector]

Hmm. I guess you loose a little bed space with a gooseneck...about a 6" circle at the hitch. I carry 2 chainsaws, a 100 gallon fuel tank, and most times a twin tank gasoline powered air compressor in the bed of my pickup when hooked up to my PJ gooseneck, and that's not counting gas and oil jugs, and miscellaneous tools.
You've made up your mind, so I won't try to convince you of anything. Tow safely, and good luck with the new set up when you get it. :drink:

 

[joshuabardwell]

I have just gone through this with my truck, and my results are the same as yours. You can usually tow more with a bumper pull than a gooseneck or fifth wheel because the latter two put more weight on the truck and run you up against the GVWR. I think an exception might be if you had a truck like a standard cab/long bed, where the truck's curb weight might be low enough that you would be able to do your full tow rating with a gooseneck or fifth wheel.

You are on the right track to confirm whether your receiver requires a weight distributing system. Sometimes people focus on the max tow rating and miss the fact that it requires a WDS to achieve. You absolutely can buy a receiver that will allow you to tow close to your full rating without a WDS, but you have to be sure of what you're buying. The issue is how the receiver attaches to the truck. If you think about it, the trailer is creating a torque on the receiver, twisting the receiver down in the back and up in the front. This puts most of the tongue weight on the bolts in the back of the receiver. When you install a WDS, it counteracts that torque, distributing the tongue weight more evenly across the bolts that hold the receiver onto the frame. This is why when people say, "I have airbags. I don't need a WDS. My truck drives fine without one," they are missing an important point. Your truck may drive just fine without a WDS, but if your receiver bolts break, you're in a world of trouble. Long story short, some receivers are designed to stay attached without a WDS and others aren't.

I wouldn't sweat the WDS too much. Once you know how to set one up, it's no big deal, and takes just a little more time than without. When you have a heavy load, towing with a WDS is night and day compared to without. The truck rides level, and the truck and trailer are a lot more like a unit. When you brake, the trailer doesn't dive, for example, but the truck just sort of gracefully stops. Frankly, even if my receiver didn't require a WDS, I might consider getting one just to improve the ride.

 

[mikehaugen]

The issue is how the receiver attaches to the truck. If you think about it, the trailer is creating a torque on the receiver, twisting the receiver down in the back and up in the front. This puts most of the tongue weight on the bolts in the back of the receiver.

Joshua brings up another good point. Many of the adjustable drawbars stick pretty far out from the receiver, multiplying that torque. As handy as they may be, I avoid them for towing heavy. Just something to keep in mind if you decide not to use a wdh.

There are exceptions, I have one that is a plate welded vertically on the drawbar tube with bolt holes, then have a 4 bolt mounted pintle hitch on that. It really only puts the hitching point 1-2" further back than a straight pintle hitch, so it isn't too bad.

 

[Diamondpilot]

I could certainly be wrong here, but the way I understand it, is that for the same weight GN vs BP, you would normally have more weight on the truck for the GN since you typically have 15%-25% tongue weight, whereas the Bumper Pull would typically have 10%-15% tongue weight. This would leave more weight available to put "stuff" in the bed.

I know a lot of you are die hard GN fans, and like I said I'm not arguing that a bumper pull is better, I'm just surprised that I can pull more with the bumper pull that's all, regardless of the fact that the GN would tow "better".

By the way, where do you guys with the goosenecks put all your other "stuff"? I often carry my brush saw (weed wacker style), gas powered pole saw, two chainsaws with my "saw bag", log peavey and a few other tools. Do you still put that in the bed with the GN? I imagine you can still fit some things back there right?

Mike,
It's a good point about getting a longer GN and I'm not ruling it out, but along with extra weight of the longer gooseneck, now I have even less payload, and even more weight on the truck.

Maybe I'm looking at this all wrong, but I don't see anyway that an equivalent sized GN can carry more than an equivalent sized BP???
I can definitely see why it would carry it better though.

The issue is your truck. It's low GVWR is what is making the GN not possible.

I have had a GN and they have downfalls. Loss of bed space, limiting tow vehicles, inside tracking around turns, ect. For me a long BP trailer works much better.

Any good trailer manufacturer can make you what you want.

Chris

 

[CJONE]

Juice tranny (slang) = automatic.
I ask because in my 2001 f350 a/t Ford was replacing my tranny every July for 3 years, then I got an f 450 with a gear trans. for my towing, and was wondering if you're '99 has the same? I was pulling heavy 18000# JLG man lift every few weeks (short haul), but this was with aux cooling, Amsoil, & gauges monitoring temps. and on any tow that I could, I'd use low range (hubs out) for the mechanical advantage, still burned them up. I think it has an e4od or something. I still have the truck and love it but I don't tow with it. I know, I overloaded it, but I think it is widely known to be a crap transmission.
I think you'll be happy with the b/p trlr. for your described needs. One advantage to the g/n that has not been mentioned is that chances are you're buddies will not be able to borrow it. (no hitch):laughing:

You both have the R4100 trans [updated e4]. Anyway the converter is what is junk, trannys usually have little issues. Call Brian at BTS transmissions and you will not have to replace another one unless you do something really stupid! 2 year unlimited mileage warranty and even after it is up he still takes care of any issues. Mine has towed 21,000 and plowed for the past 5 years with 0 issues. CJ

 

[Piston]

I think I have a Banks torque converter in my truck, not sure how to tell though. I also have the Banks turbo and some other upgrades the previous owner did. I can't remember what it was though, that was 10 years ago when I bought the truck.