Total welding newie here

[Fifelaker]

Yeah, you keep thinking that! :laughing:

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/O6rHeD5x2tI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe> In this case "How many taps with a hammer will it take to break a cold lap" Me thinks not many.

 

[Reverser]

It looks to me as he's using them as non-critical stabilizing bars for the HF hitch. I don't think he'll be going around hitting it with a hammer. :laughing:
If it serves its purpose, which it appears that it does, what difference does it make if it's cold lap or not?

 

[Shield Arc]

what difference does it make if it's cold lap or not?

Mig welds are notorious for cold lap. When using the Mig process you want to run as hot as you can handle it. No one knows how much penetration the weld has when cold lapped. It's just a roll of the dice when the weld will let go.
Next Sodo will show us pictures of a trailer, or trailer hitch he built for his pickup with his under powered 120-volt Mig welder. Do you really want to follow something down the hiway that was welded with his Mig welder?

 

[Sodo]

Next Sodo will show us pictures of a trailer, or trailer hitch he built for his pickup with his under powered 120-volt Mig welder. Do you really want to follow something down the hiway that was welded with his Mig welder?

I do understand the way welders have to pass inspection. You guys give each other a hard time but the world is safer place for it. But my stuff is safe. I do have trailers, and hitches that are 15 and more years old, all tested heavily, many loads, many miles - I know what works but I can cringe too (about other people welding stuff up!).

I Also understand that you hope its a cold lap (it's not). I wish I had more pictures for you to critique, but some of the stuff has been used so long it's all rusted and ugly (not broken and never will).

I have a 2" receiver cargo bench that if 2 guys stand on it it wheelies the ATV. The hitch withstands far more load than the ATV can ever experience.

 

[Fifelaker]

I do not "Hope" it's cold lap I know it is. Do you see how the toes of the bead are on top of the base metal? They never fused with the base metal that is why they lay on top.

 

[Fifelaker]

I will add that you can help to keep that from happening you can preheat the part, use 100% co2 or the best cure is to use more amps.

 

[Sodo]

It fused, I can see the puddle in the base metal when I'm welding it. I go ahead to preheat then back and dwell to keep the puddle hot thats why the weld piles up higher than necessary. These are things you learn to do when there's no knob to "11" (a situation that they would never teach in school). Agreed more amps is better but it can work.

Also that weld looks like it does because the two braces are not centered. And I dwelled there. The (right side) weld is going around the bend it's not the same as the left side weld. Agreed more power would have welded nicer but it this isn't a welding class, there's no grade, and it aint gonna bust.

I have preheated parts in the past with a roofing torch, that works too, of course, but its a lot of unnecessary steps for this item. True this is a heavy piece for a 120v welder. The beginning weld is the pre-heat, thats why it piled up high I was dwelling there, heating with wire. When I get to the other side it's now hot and a big fat fillet welds nicely. I suppose I could have started on the fillet and finished in front but thats 20/20 hindsight. This item was welded in-place (on the ATV) then rattle-canned and DONE!

If this was a production item, it would be welded properly on one side, with no fillet on the backside. A production welder has to do it per the drawing, pass inspection, or the part is SCRAP. I do understand you pro welders but you're applying unnecessary specifications from your world that are not required in mine. I can weld it on the backside, do more passes, whatever I want.

The only way it's going to "fail" is in "welding inspection" but I don't really care. There's 4 inches of weld (on each brace!), gimme a break it's 10x as strong as it needs to be…..:thumbsup:

 

[Reverser]

Mig welds are notorious for cold lap. When using the Mig process you want to run as hot as you can handle it. No one knows how much penetration the weld has when cold lapped. It's just a roll of the dice when the weld will let go.
Next Sodo will show us pictures of a trailer, or trailer hitch he built for his pickup with his under powered 120-volt Mig welder. Do you really want to follow something down the hiway that was welded with his Mig welder?

You took what I said out of context. I said that for his non-critical use in that application.
If he had a cold lap weld on a trailer on the highway, then of course that would be a critical application where if the weld failed then lives would be in danger. That's not the case here.

In his case with that little HF ATV hitch, it has a 3/4" bolt that actually secures it to the frame. It's not going to come off of there. He had welded on those braces to keep it from swiveling side to side.

I had one of them on my golf cart that I use to pull a little farm trailer around my place with. I found out that no matter how tight you get the bolt, it will still eventually want to move sideways. I kept mine from moving side to side with a U-bolt. And when I seen his pic, I knew he was keeping his from moving side to side by making some brackets for it. His brackets will probably work fine for that.

 

[Sodo]

And when I seen his pic, I knew he was keeping his from moving side to side by making some brackets for it. His brackets will probably work fine for that.

I have a 2" receiver cargo bench that if 2 guys stand on it it wheelies the ATV. The hitch withstands far more load than the ATV can ever experience.

Not just for the side to side but you're right about that too. I braced it to carry the tongue weight and not break the little tow-hitch off the ATV's cast aluminum differential case.

One thing you find out with a trailer on an ATV is that it's impossible to back the trailer; because the trailer ball is too close to the ATV rear axle. This arrangement moves the ball rearward to gain better trailer control. But it needs bracing to withstand the higher leverage.

The utility of the 2" receiver is useful too.

 

[Arc weld]

Boy this one got derailed quickly. I"m not sure how it eneded up as a d!%& measuring contest but some of the posts have absolutely nothing to do with the topic of entry level welding machines for a 70 year old woman on a budget and more about bragging and insulting people. We all have different experience from farm welding to underwater welding and everything in between but lets keep the OP in mind and not derail to unrelated welding topics and pissing matches.

First of all, the very first post asking for advice only mentioned a newbie welder. There was no mention of what the intended projects or metal thickness would be. Typically farmers and hobbyists routinely weld 1/4" and thicker material. For 90%+ of them, a 220 volt welder is the best option. Duty cycle is important. I've seen some real cheap 110 volt machines with 10% duty cycle that would be totally useless. Having a better welding machine cuts the learning curve way down and makes it 100 times less frustrating to learn how to weld.

As far as Sodo's proficiency at welding, It begs the question... What exactly have you been doing for 40 years?:confused3: It certainly wasn't trying to improve your welding skills. You would have been much better off not showing your welds than posting pictures of welds that would fail a high school welding test. Seriously!:ashamed: Unfortunately for you Shield Arc posts pictures that back up his claims and show what true craftsmanship is. A little practice and the proper instruction and anyone on this forum could produce similar results to Shield Arc in a few weeks. Your welds, if you can call them that, that Shield Arc pointed out are the EXACT reason why it's good to have a 220 volt welder. You never know what your next project will be. You're telling the OP and anyone else not to overbuy yet you've got over $4000 invested in your "portable" welding set up using a hobby welder. You could have bought a superior welder/generator for less money. You didn't show pictures of your other welds because they are rusty and crappy. The welds you showed were painted and crappy. You don't have to be a "pro" welder to take pride in your work and do it right the first time. By the way, I have never heard the term "dwelling" used in reference to welding. I thought a dwelling is a place where you live. Am I missing something?:laughing:

 

[Sodo]

Am I missing something?:laughing:

I certainly haven't spent 40 years trying to improve the appearance of my welding, there is very little need. I'm making stuff that I use, and most of the time it's get 'er done not fuss over pics. I don't weld for a job, it's just to make what I want. And I enjoy making instead of buying, its a hobby for sure. Its strong and works great, and I've made more stuff than those pics.

Your assessment of my stuff is useless, the welds are good, and my eqpt. is good. I use my generators for more than welding, they are really great units, quiet efficient easy to start, easy to toss in the truck.

I don't care if dwelling isn't a proper welding term.

I did this weld with the Multimatic 200, on 240v from a 5000w (10hp) generator. I was disappointed that I had to use the MM200's "1/4" thickness" setting but that's all the generator could put out. But it worked, and I wonder if it was better toi be on the 1/4" setting, the heat was so concentrated, going round and round. I am proud of this repair though.

And I honestly don't care if there is something wrong with it but as you can see I'm willing to be humored. I actually feel a little lucky it turned out this well. I had to rotate the shaft with one hand while welding with the other. This was about 1 week ago.

I'm curious Arc, what do you create?

 

[Arc weld]

"I certainly haven't spent 40 years trying to improve the appearance of my welding"

You don't say.:laughing:

"You're talkin' nonsense, the welds are good"

Good what, examples of poor welds and workmanship?:anyone:

"What do I create?"

Example's of proper welding techniques and craftsmanship that I'm proud to put my name on!

My last project was a HD track groomer I designed for my MX track. 14" 105lb./ft. H beam with 15 backhoe shanks welded on to fit on a 3 pt. hitch. It weighs over 800 lbs. and I burned a lot of 3/16" 7018 welding it up. Hand cut all the bevels on the 3/4" flanges to accept the shanks. A radiagraph would have been nice. Took a while to build but I'll never have to repair it other than changing teeth. That's why I put the backhoe shanks on it. Knock the pin out and put a new tooth on.

Oh, I've done my fair share of roll welding too. Try it with the stinger on the end of a 4' broom handle burning 3/16" 7018 reaching through a nozzle on a pressure vessel. Had to use my knee on the push button for the rolls.

 

[Sodo]

Good what, examples of poor welds and workmanship?:anyone:

Don't worry, weld inspectors tend come out of the woodwork especially on the internets - it kinda cracks me up. Dude lives in his moms basement but he's got that ATV hitch all inspected as if it's an aircaft part carrying 250 passengers 565 mph at 30,000 feet :laughing:. Not that I doubt you Arc - NO doubt you know about welds, but putting more focus on the details than I would.

I think mine are 90% and you think anything less than 99% is poor - well so be it. I'm having a good old time, and not having welds break. I look around (real life, not just the pics that make it to the internets) and my welds are as good or better than other stuff I see that people build. Not race cars, aircraft, not production motorcycles, just stuff that people build, that works. Theres better but there's much worse and I'm OK with what I do. I enjoy fixing stuff.

Good for you, you spend the time how you want, and you get the result you want. Same here. I agree I could do better after half an hour with a pro looking over my shoulder and I'd welcome that as most would. And learn some better buzzwords (like "Roll welding")!

MX track groomer...I bet you're right it will never need repair. Of course a monkey could make a track groomer that doesn't break (with the proper amperage, of course) - but you're happy with those welds I bet?:laughing:

Lets see pics of the groomer (not just weld close-ups). What else have you made?

 

[paulharvey]

Will you guys put it away. I'm not very experienced but here goes. I started with a 50/70 amp AC arc welder with 10% duty cycle. My wife bought it for me for ~$100 for Christmas.

I did make and fix things with it. Had to really work at it to make anything strong, but I can be done.

It weights about 20#.

I had to do repairs on it because I over worked it.

I did upgrade later and could have got better for the $100

It was a pain in the butt to use, very hard to get an arc or keep it going for more than a quarter of a bead.


Now have a low end 220v 130 amp ac/105 amps dc that I ordered used for $109.99, but after refund for shipping damage was $59.99.

It welds nicer.

It welds easier.

It weights about 60#

My only 220v outlet is about 80 ft from shed, so I put it on a cart with 8" real tires.

I can build the same thing in a quarter of the weld time

I weld more cause it's actually enjoyable now


I know your talking Mig and I'm talking Arc, but the 220v does it better, but is far heavier and less mobile. The Hobart 140 is nice, but it's got limits. For small repairs to metal door frames, now 16 ga purlions, and general (not heavy equipment repairs) it can do almost anything you Need too. For anything built from scrap, dirty, or heavy materials the 220v is way better.

I will also throw this out there; if I went straight to a $250-500 machine I still wouldn't have a welder. In my world a welder is basically a useful toy, and I wouldn't/am not willing to drop that kind of money on a toy. If the welder makes you money, that's a completely different story.

 

[Reverser]

Lets see pics of the groomer (not just weld close-ups). What else have you made?

.........Cricket's chirping.......:laughing:

 

[Shield Arc]

It's a strange thing looking at welds. On this project down town Seattle I was the field superintendent. I fired 12-weldors on this project just by looking at their welds. Every inch of weld on this project was UT'd. We did not have one failure. The crew would weld all day, then I would go out after they left and look over every weld. Mark the sections I didn't like. Have it replaced the next day. If it happened twice to the same weldor I'd get their money. We were subcontracted to PCL out of Canada. The Port of Seattle hired Lease Crutcher Lewis as the construction management group. PSI was the 3rd party inspection company. I would not call for the welding inspector until I was satisfied with all the welds just by looking at them. When the job was almost complete there was a meeting, I wasn't there but my project manager was. The rep for Lease Crutcher Lewis made the statement that it was strange we had all that welding but not one failure. He thought there was something funny about it. The rep for PSI went through the roof. Threatened to sue for slander.

 

[Reverser]

I started with a 50/70 amp AC arc welder with 10% duty cycle. My wife bought it for me for ~$100 for Christmas.

I did make and fix things with it. Had to really work at it to make anything strong, but I can be done.

Best I remember, those little welders were made by Emerson for Sears and maybe other retailers. They were very limited in their usefulness, but I think you could also use carbon arc with them to do a little heating and brazing.
So you could use them on certain thin projects.

 

[Sodo]

It's a strange thing looking at welds. ??. Mark the sections I didn't like. Have it replaced the next day. ?..

I hear that, and understand it. The money is there, the contract specifies the standard, you have enough good welders to choose from, your schedule and budget allows you to weed thru them and get the very best. While I'm interested in this process of perfection, it's not required on a hobby & maintenance tractor welding forum.

Here's what I wrote:

I do understand you pro welders but you're applying unnecessary specifications from your world that are not required in mine. I can weld it on the backside, do more passes, whatever I want.

Shield, your judgement of my weld, on the ATV hitch was absolutely useless. Sorry to be blunt to an obvious pro, but anybody who's actually used stuff and seen it break (?and UNDERSTOOD why?.) knows that hitch is so strong that it would tear up the ATV frame before that weld broke. This is with a 120v welder, they are great machines to have around.

Some of us (probably MOST) are more interested in USING the implement (or repair) and want to get it done, claim success without so much fuss. Just wonder if you hard-core guys could take it to heart that on this forum the welds just need to look good enough, and be strong. That's a slippery slope in your world and I understand it, but you are the pro looking in on the hobby/maintenamce welding forum, not the other way around.

I hope I speak for others that WE ARE INTERESTED and want to learn how to do it better, always! It can be a loss when the pros get fed up, and bail out of a forum that's below their expertise. But maybe you could lighten up a little on the "YOU'RE FIRED" assessments

 

[arrow]

Theses points are coming from different perspectives. Unfortunately, in the attempt to clarify one's position and being unsuccessful (or at least how one wants their perspective to come across) we might get a bit unyielding and get frustrated because someone begins "minimizing" the other's perspective. It is not easy for someone who has done something as a profession not to look at most things from a heightened importance. Heck, peoples live's did depend on what they did. The 110 amp welders do work for people. The 110 amp welders also get people in trouble. I think as a pro of anything, one will always side with caution to mitigate people "crossing over" from, "this is ok for this so it must be ok for that". I don't think that kind of discernment is possible so it gets to an area of "these are all no good" because is a better catch all for the contribution of trying to save someone's *****. There are simply degrees of choice for people but I always think it prudent to be aware of possible pitfalls. Thank the pro's for that and thank the home owner for being an example of what can be done.

 

[k0ua]

Theses points are coming from different perspectives. Unfortunately, in the attempt to clarify one's position and being unsuccessful (or at least how one wants their perspective to come across) we might get a bit unyielding and get frustrated because someone begins "minimizing" the other's perspective. It is not easy for someone who has done something as a profession not to look at most things from a heightened importance. Heck, peoples live's did depend on what they did. The 110 amp welders do work for people. The 110 amp welders also get people in trouble. I think as a pro of anything, one will always side with caution to mitigate people "crossing over" from, "this is ok for this so it must be ok for that". I don't think that kind of discernment is possible so it gets to an area of "these are all no good" because is a better catch all for the contribution of trying to save someone's *****. There are simply degrees of choice for people but I always think it prudent to be aware of possible pitfalls. Thank the pro's for that and thank the home owner for being an example of what can be done.

Arrow, you would probably make a pretty good hostage negotiator.:thumbsup: