Total welding newie here

[Sodo]

Carol, don't believe the hype about overbuying welders. Start with a 120v welder. Use the gas, not flux-core which costs more but the results are worth it, and you will learn faster when it's easier (with the gas). I highly recommend any of the 120v welders, Hobart, Lincoln, Miller, I've used them all. The Lincoln seemed to weld sheetmetal better (very thin metal). I haven't used Everlast but I bet they are fine.

I've been welding for 40 years. I started with stick, then went to MIG, (220v) when I worked on a farm. We built lots of stuff. Then in 1992 I bought a 120v welder (Hobart handler), was almost the best money I ever spent. Then bought a Miller 135, still have it, another great welder, built lots of stuff. I weld 1/4" sometimes but mostly less.

If your pipe rack is breaking that's because it's thin stuff, and that 120v welder is more than enough to weld your pipe rack. Highly recommend you practice on something else though and work up to it, the thin stuff is actually harder to weld.

"Duty cycle" is important ONLY for professionals, who have someone cutting and fitting for them, to keep them welding nonstop. This is a completely un-realistic situation for any home fabricator. Nobody who works solo needs utter the words "duty cycle".

If you ever outgrow one of the 120v machines, then good for you! Someone will help you get started, just don't let them talk you into overbuying.

 

[Arc weld]

Speaking of over buying a welder... A Miller Multimatic 200 costs around $2000 and although a capable machine, is still a glorified entry level welder. You could buy both a stick and MIG machine from Everlast, for example, for the same or less money with higher duty cycles.

In welding machines, you run into a classic example of why bigger is better than smaller. If you know for certain that you'll never weld anything over 3/16" and never tackle a project with multiple welds, then by all means get a low duty cycle 120 volt welder. Now if you know you're going to be doing a variety of welding on all kinds of different projects as you build your confidence, go with more capacity. It will save you money in the long run. You can always turn a bigger machine down but it's impossible to turn a smaller machine up when you have heavier material to weld. If you buy a 120 volt welder and you need to weld heavier plate, duty cycle comes into play. Say you have some 3/8" plate to weld so need to do a multi-pass weld. You'll be at the top end of your 120 volt machine and it will need to cool off for 8 minutes after doing only 2 minutes of welding. Do another 2 minutes of welding and it will need another 8 minutes to cool off. Do you really want to be waiting that much or would you rather be welding? Every project I've ever built was tacked up and then all the welding was done. With only a 20% duty cycle, a job like like welding a new edge on a loader bucket would take 4 times longer because of all the waiting for the machine to cool off.

 

[Reverser]

Speaking of over buying a welder... A Miller Multimatic 200 costs :laughing:$2000 and although a capable machine, is still a glorified entry level welder. You could buy both a stick and MIG machine from Everlast, for example, for the same or less money with higher duty cycles.

Don't let your boss hear you say that, or he's liable to kick you into next week. :laughing: :laughing:

 

[Sodo]

Arc, you're a funny guy. You're advising Carol as a journeyman welder, repairing heavy loader buckets, and not wanting to wait 2 minutes for the machine to cool down. :laughing: And dang those multi-pass welds, what a waste of time. Carol does not have 2 minutes to waste while the boss is cracking the whip. And the other guy can weld 20% faster:laughing: Carols gets left in the dust! You are assuming Carol is gonna out-weld a 120v machine (that's not likely) at least not for awhile.

Carol, my advice remains the same, because you said you're a newbie. Some of these old guys with big shops, already wired for big welders don't know what the 120v welders can do, and don't really care either. And they're not wired to advisee a newbie, their advice is always the same, get a big welder.

I've been welding for 40 years, and happen to know that the 120v machines are great. Bigger machines cost more money, are more difficult to move around, you may have to call an electrician to add a 220v outlet,,,,, ($another unnecessary $500 cost) but maybe that's OK. To weld up to 1/4" steel with a 120v welder, all you need is a 20A outlet to plug into. Look at your electrical breaker box (for the house) and find a circuit with a 20A breaker and that's all you need. Often a garage has a 20A circuit and then you're all set to weld.

Hobart125, Hobart 140, MillerMatic 140, Lincoln PowerMig 140c, these are about $700, you can buy one of these and get your jobs done. I don't have any experience with Everlast but that 140E looks good for $400 and wih a 5 year warranty that will cover you 'til you outgrow it for sure. You will have to choose between using "flux core wire" and "Gas" (uses solid wire). Adding gas will put $250 ontop of your welder price but it's worth it, you will make nicer welds, and thus its easier to learn.

 

[kencunningham]

I recently upgraded to a Hobart 190 that was on sale at tractor supply for 650.00, they even knocked another 25 off because the only one they had left was the display model. Allso later on i can add the spool gun if i ever need to weld alluminum. I started off with a 110v hobart that i purchased off of a guy on craigslist that bought himself a Hobart Ironman. He needed more power, which is the reason i upgraded, see the pattern here? The 110v Hobart worked pretty good, but you could tell the weld quility would tapper of I you pushed it too hard. I don't think you will be dissapointed in the Hobart 190 if you can find it on sale, in my opinion that price point for the quality and abiltiy of that welder is gonna be hard to beat.

You are gonna want to be able to identiy cold welds, as they will not give you the strenght. You will learn alot by practicing welding and watching videos of others giving tips on welding. If cost is a concern, you should go for a 110v unit to start off with. It's not just the cost of the welder you have to account for, such as shielding gas and bottles, welding wire, wire brushes, grinders, wiring for the welder, gloves, helmet, etc. The list just goes on and on.

 

[Shield Arc]

Years ago when I first moved here I was wiring up my newly built shop. One of my neighbors had a 120-volt Hobart Mig welder. He use to teach welding and machine shop at one of the local Jr high schools. He was welding some 14-GA brackets with his machine. He came and got me to see if I would have better luck with it. I don't have near the experience as some of you guys here, but it was all I could do to get that machine to weld 14-GA lap joints. I had to hold about 3/4-inch stick out to get anywhere near the power to make the welds. I' am sure that was my lack of ability, not the under powered Mig welder.

 

[Fifelaker]

I will second or third or whatever it is but you cant use amps you didn't buy. I have run Lincoln 256's 255's and Miller 252's I own a Lincoln 135sp and it is regulated to 1/8" max if I need to weld thicker I will use my friends 255 or stick weld it with my Dialarc 250p.

 

[k0ua]

You would think so, sjmarbu. Tried that route. But the programs at ROP and the community college are geared for folks wanting to get into welding as a career. They do not welcome hobbyists. And they are clear about that. I have looked at the Youtube videos and am willing to purchase videos as well. Its that initial leap into the pool where I'd like to have some help.

Carol, it is not the best way, but I just taught my self.. Made lots of mistakes, but I looked at other peoples welds, listened to what they had to say (sometimes conflicting info).. Looked at dozens of "welding tips and tricks" videos and ChuckE2009's videos on you-tube. I have never MIG welded except for a time or two with someone else s machine, I just started in on stick welding.. Cheapest, simplest machines, good penetration on thick materiel , and will weld rusty metal if you have to. I can vouch for Everlast machines, as I have been very pleased with mine. So I am not saying you should "just jump in by yourself" But I am saying you can. It worked for me.

 

[ThomasH]

I have been welding for about 40 years, and the first welder I started with was a Century 250 amp AC welder. It was a bargain then at about $500 new, which if my math is correct is about $2100 now. The good thing about it was that it could weld steel all day long. The bad thing about was that it was AC only.

I have learned quite a bit about welding machinery since then:
1) It is good to be able to have a 50-60% or so duty cycle at enough amperage to be able to properly weld the thickness that you are wanting to weld.
2) Having DC is a must, and AC is needed for aluminum. You will hate your welder for a while if it is AC only. After a while, you learn to work around the limitations of AC, but it will not be in the league with a DC welder for most things.
3) Inverter welders (not including the cheapest ones) are a step up from transformer units, and typically cost less. They probably have a shorter life span, although my experience with my Miller is 15+ years with XMT300 and XMT304s and no problems what so ever. The earlier MOSFET based imported welders had more problems as I understand it, but the better vendors have moved on to IGBT units and have good warranties.
4) I would not buy a unit with less than a 60% duty cycle at 110-120 amps which is a pretty common setting for welding 3/16" - 1/4" material. Of course, if you are only going to be welding sheet metal, such as auto panel repairs, then a smaller unit makes perfect sense. This typically means a 170-180 amp unit, like the Hobart Handler 180 unit that I and use for small MIG jobs on less than 1/4" material. Most welders say XXX amps based on a 20-35% duty cycle, but there are some that are rated more conservatively. I would be embarrassed to over-hype ratings that much, but many welding companies do that on the smaller consumer grade units. It reminds me of the mythical ratings on shop vacuums and air compressors.
5) Depending on where your budget is, you can find a used Hobart/Lincoln/etc. mid level welder on Craigslist for $300 or so with little use, at least around me (North Georgia) they are for sale regularly at good prices. I saw a Hobart 190 unit a month ago still in the box from being a Christmas present that was offered for $400.

 

[Shield Arc]

Carol, it is not the best way, but I just taught my self.. Made lots of mistakes, but I looked at other peoples welds, listened to what they had to say (sometimes conflicting info).. Looked at dozens of "welding tips and tricks" videos and ChuckE2009's videos on you-tube. I have never MIG welded except for a time or two with someone else s machine, I just started in on stick welding.. Cheapest, simplest machines, good penetration on thick materiel , and will weld rusty metal if you have to. I can vouch for Everlast machines, as I have been very pleased with mine. So I am not saying you should "just jump in by yourself" But I am saying you can. It worked for me.

James in my opinion Mig welding is the easiest process to learn. Within an hour I could have a monkey making perfect looking Mig welds. Teaching someone how to set a Mig machine is a totally different story. I've seen guys with years of experience, and certified have a hard time setting a Mig machine.

 

[Carol in CA]

Boy, did I wade into the deep end of the pool!

I do not aspire to be a pro. I am a 70 year old lady who breaks some things and conjurers up others. I am thinking the 120v machine will do just fine. On the rare occasion I would require something beyond the capabilities of my machine or skill level, I'll find a guy with the bigger machine. Budget is very modest as I don't expect to use this all that often.

I will continue to look for a mentor. Thanks, guys. I appreciate the input.

 

[Shield Arc]

Carol if you do go with a 120-volt Mig machine, go with 100% C02 for the gas. It will give you just a tad bit more pop than 75% argon & 25% C02. You will get just a little bit more splatter with 100% C02, but not really a big deal.

If you go with gasless flux core wire, Hobart's Fabshield 21-B is really nice wire.

 

[Sodo]

Years ago when I first moved here I was wiring up my newly built shop. One of my neighbors had a 120-volt Hobart Mig welder. He use to teach welding and machine shop at one of the local Jr high schools. He was welding some 14-GA brackets with his machine. He came and got me to see if I would have better luck with it. I don't have near the experience as some of you guys here, but it was all I could do to get that machine to weld 14-GA lap joints. I had to hold about 3/4-inch stick out to get anywhere near the power to make the welds. I' am sure that was my lack of ability, not the under powered Mig welder.

I don't know if it's lack of ability, but there is a lack of something here. Something's fishy about this story…..14ga? That's about the minimum thickness for a 120v Hobart for a newbie to practice welding. 14 ga (.083) is about the thickness where a newbie is still liable to burn holes and hurt his pride.

The machine can weld fine at 4x that thickness (not all conditions).

 

[Shield Arc]

Maybe it was 12-GA. But very thin. That is the only time I've ever tried to run a 120-volt Mig.
Guess what I won't be buying?

 

[Shield Arc]

Speaking of welding sheet metal. A lot of guys don't believe this can be done. It is a challenge:shocked:, you have to find the sweet spot for stick out real quick, and maintain it.
.045" NR-212 10-GA lap joint, and fillet weld on a CC only engine drive. Some people say it can't be done on CC, you have to have a CV machine to weld something this thin.

 

[Sodo]

Maybe it was 12-GA. But very thin. That is the only time I've ever tried to run a 120-volt Mig.

Arc, as I said before, you're a funny guy. Using a (very good welder) one time is not experience.

Somehow I thought you were experienced, at least more than me but it looks like I have about 20 years on you (when it comes to 120v wire feed welders anyway!:cool2.

 

[Shield Arc]

Somehow I thought you were experienced, at least more than me but it looks like I have about 20 years on you (when it comes to 120v wire feed welders anyway!:cool2.

 

[Reverser]

I like the 120 volt mig's because of the convenience factor, but the down side is their limitations.
I have the Hobart 125 and it's come in pretty handy at times, but I wouldn't trust it on anything thicker than 1/8".

Having said that, I like the concept of that new 120v Everlast inverter mig that Mark was talking about. Being an inverter, it will no doubt better utilize the incoming 120v power and do a better and more efficient job welding than the transformer type. It would probably run circles around my 120v Hobart. I'm thinking about eventually getting one from Mark, myself.

 

[Arc weld]

It is very hard to give a recommendation for a welding machine without having all the info you need to base a recommendation. You want to weld thin gauge only as thin as possible, get 110 volt stick/TIG inverter and with enough practice you could weld razor blades if you wanted to. For about 90% of people looking to do their own welding, most experienced welders/sales people would recommend a machine capable of doing the widest range of possible projects. Thus a 220 volt machine would be the BEST solution for an all around welder. If you go with a machine like Everlast, you could get into a 220 volt MIG welder for less money than a 110 Miller, Lincoln or Hobart.

Now as far as experience, using welders on and off for 40 years does not equate to 40 years working as a welder. I would say that 5 years (or even less) working as a licensed welder will produce more practical experience than 100 years of maintenance welding. If Shield Arc was stuck using 110 volt machines, he would have lost his eye sight years ago... from shoving the sharp stick in is eye repeatedly.ullinghair: You don't need to be a "pro" in order to appreciate the benefits of a better machine. Trying to learn how to weld with a low end or under powered machine can and will frustrate you to no end. Why do think there's so many used buzz boxes for sale? It's not because people don't want to do their own welding. If most of your welding is 1/8" and the occasional 3/16", a 110 volt machine is fine. If you want to do repairs on farm equipment and build your own implements, get a 220 machine.

 

[Sodo]

It is very hard to give a recommendation for a welding machine without having all the info you need to base a recommendation……...Now as far as experience, using welders on and off for 40 years does not equate to 40 years working as a welder. I would say that 5 years (or even less) working as a licensed welder will produce more practical experience than 100 years of maintenance welding.

Agreed ----- almost 100%. You wrote "will produce", I'd say "can produce".

Shield Arc using a machine one time and failing (while in some cases is a good observation) is not useful here. These 120v welders do a great job and anybody with experience knows it. They are great for the OP, who is an admitted newbie, and just wants to get started.

In my opinion Shield should have admitted his extremely limited experience up front rather than dragging all the readers along for a ride. Not that I don't like rides, just was wondering how you might help a newbie telling her about duty cycles, and that someone else tacks all his welds so he never has to stop etc etc etc …... that's useless info to a newbie.