Starting my 40'x60' Pole Barn

[captjohn]

Starting my 40x60 pole barn. 2-14'x14' roll ups in front, 1-12'x12' roll up on side, 2-3' entry doors and 5 windows. Adding a 12'x24' lean to over the container and a 6'x12' porch over main entry door.
6x6 posts 42"x18" in the ground w/rebar crossed on concrete cookies and filled with concrete.
Forming to pour 3500# w/fiber concrete with footings to natural ground.
I'll post more when it happens. Can't wait! :thumbsup:

 

[s219]

I think those posts will survive a tornado and nuclear blast the way you're anchoring them down! Good job.

I had to get engineering done for my pole barn footings, and they said the weakest point would have been backfilling the holes with soil (spoils from drilling) as it would never be able to resist side wind loading and would have let the poles fall over even before uplift was an issue. So we're completely filling the post holes with concrete too, albeit dry mix.

How much fill did you have to bring in? I just got done compacting 24 tons for my barn, but it looks like you had a *lot* more. That orange compactable fill is interesting stuff. Stains everything....

 

[captjohn]

I think those posts will survive a tornado and nuclear blast the way you're anchoring them down! Good job.

I had to get engineering done for my pole barn footings, and they said the weakest point would have been backfilling the holes with soil (spoils from drilling) as it would never be able to resist side wind loading and would have let the poles fall over even before uplift was an issue. So we're completely filling the post holes with concrete too, albeit dry mix.

How much fill did you have to bring in? I just got done compacting 24 tons for my barn, but it looks like you had a *lot* more. That orange compactable fill is interesting stuff. Stains everything....

I live near the MS coast so I have to build to hurricane codes. I had an engineered drawing of the post footings to build to from the code office. Top double band will be bolted, all girts and perlins will be screwed and trusses will be strapped. We poured 7yds of concrete to fill the holes. So far I've had 294 yds. of fill brought in. The contractor still has to dig the footings out so I hope that will do the ramps, etc... :confused3: Yes, the red sandy clay is messy but it's what we use down here for foundations and road beds. I mucked about 20 yds. of top soil from the foundation to cover any red dirt that's exposed. :thumbsup:

 

[captjohn]

I think those posts will survive a tornado and nuclear blast the way you're anchoring them down! Good job.

The container is a storm shelter. It'll have 6 more posts just like the building on the sides with beams bolted across the top then the lean to over that. We don't have tornadoes like further north so it's the best I'm doing to do for a hurricane shelter. It'll have a genny, a/c, tv and a bathroom.

 

[MacLawn]

Wow capt! Greetings from a bit north of ye up in Columbus. A question: ok, I see ye filled the inside with fill dirt up against what I reckon is a form? I don't understand that (heheheeee, I don't know much!), but I thought ye concrete had to go down into the ground about a foot or 18" like a foundation footing. So, if ye pour concrete on top of the fill now, seems to me like it's going to be kind of floating on top of the fill. What's to keep crits from tunneling under the concrete? Hep me, hep me understand.

And, if a man don't like to see a pole barn, etc., going up, the old boy ain't right.

 

[captjohn]

Wow capt! Greetings from a bit north of ye up in Columbus. A question: ok, I see ye filled the inside with fill dirt up against what I reckon is a form? I don't understand that (heheheeee, I don't know much!), but I thought ye concrete had to go down into the ground about a foot or 18" like a foundation footing. So, if ye pour concrete on top of the fill now, seems to me like it's going to be kind of floating on top of the fill. What's to keep crits from tunneling under the concrete? Hep me, hep me understand.

And, if a man don't like to see a pole barn, etc., going up, the old boy ain't right.

The contractor has to dig the footings out 18" wide to natural ground all around the sides of the forms so concrete can fill it. When it's finished, you'll see a concrete wall all the way to the ground on all sides. No fill washes out this way. You'll be able to see the outsides of the posts this way but I can live with it. We're also putting 18" rebar pins in the posts 3" from the top of the concrete slab to tie the post to the slab at the top. The slab in the back is 4' above natural ground.

 

[EddieWalker]

Interesting way to build a barn. Especially digging out the footings that way. Why didn't he just build forms and pour, then fill with dirt? Even with a small excavator, there is going to be a lot of hand digging and cleaning before climbing into the holes to tie rebar.

Did you compare this method to going with a metal frame building on a slab or stick built on a slab?

I like the posts. Was the size of the hole also part of the engineers design?

You are doing all sorts of new things. I like it!!!

Eddie

 

[captjohn]

He said he was hand digging the footings and he's done many this way. He has a pretty big crew. They're non load bearing walls so only fiber concrete everywhere and only getting rebar at the roll up doors. I think the concrete will hold the fill in place. We've compacted it and let it sit for 1 month. I have 3 fiber only concrete slabs at my home over 10 years old and are holding up as well as the ones with steel in them.
Red iron steel buildings were $20,000+ more and I don't think I could stick build a 15' eave height building for $15 a sq. ft.
Hole size was on the county code office drawing for the post. We added 1 more rebar because the bottom 4 were 4" too short so the inspector made the change and cut us some slack.

 

[MacLawn]

So capt, they dig out from INSIDE ye forms? By hand? Man, I would have NEVER thought of doing that. And, they have to dig down 18" below the original land, right?

 

[captjohn]

So capt, they dig out from INSIDE ye forms? By hand? Man, I would have NEVER thought of doing that. And, they have to dig down 18" below the original land, right?

Yes, inside the form. Not below natural ground, just down to it. This is only to keep the fill from washing out from under the slab. It's not load bearing. Picture a block wall with posts in it filled with dirt.

 

[ace10]

Even with the pictures and all the descriptions, I'm still lost on what the retaining wall is doing.

Is it the outside of what will become a form?

 

[captjohn]

These are pictures from the builder's website. It's not my building but maybe it will explain the foundation. One picture has a carport so the top 2x6 doesn't go all the way around like mine will. The inside of the plywood, the smooth side will have the dirt dug out 18" wide and down to the natural ground then have all the concrete poured against it up to the top of the 2x6 on top of the form. The bottom of the metal will be screwed to that 2x6. When the concrete is poured and set, the forms come off and that's it.

 

[wmonroe]

Interesting build, they do it different around where I'm at but I enjoy learning new ways. Keep the pics coming.

 

[EddieWalker]

Looking at the pictures from the builders website brings up a really big concern. On that building, it looks like he is using a single 2x6 attached to the side of the posts to support the load of the roof trusses. Maybe it's a single 2x8. Either way, this is wrong and something to make sure he doesn't do on your building.

Cost of lumber is pretty cheap and the savings by cutting this one critical area is both foolish and incompetent. The top purlin is also a header and it carries the weight of the roof. The center of that span is the weakest point on the wall and it will lead to sagging, cracking, movement and eventually failure. How long depends on the weather, soil movement and luck.

How are they being held in place?

That top board should be at least a doubled up 2x10 and if it was mine, I would use two 2x12s glued together with liquid nails. I would notch the tops of the posts to carry both boards and then add a 2x6 to the outside to be the purlin. Then I would bolt it all together.

Eddie

 

[BitChin1]

That top board should be at least a doubled up 2x10 and if it was mine, I would use two 2x12s glued together with liquid nails. I would notch the tops of the posts to carry both boards and then add a 2x6 to the outside to be the purlin. Then I would bolt it all together.

Eddie[/QUOTE]

Eddie in his 2nd post he did state "Top double band will be bolted", but did not state the lumber size.

I like your approach - no reason not to strongly build this detail given the minimal cost of lumber vs overall project cost!

 

[wmonroe]

Double post.

 

[wmonroe]

Eddie that's a good catch, when I looked at the pictures I was focused on the concrete and didn't even notice the undersized board supporting the trusses. When I had my 40x60 built they used two 2x10 lvl beams to support the trusses, they are an actual 2"x10".

 

[captjohn]

Top band is double 2x10's notched and bolted to posts. Trusses are screwed and hurricane strapped to the bands. Even the hurricane straps are screwed. I added another picture of one of his recent jobs framing.

 

[captjohn]

Here's some pictures of the footing's being dug for the ones with questions. They're going to knock out the dirt behind the posts, clean up the footings and clean off the forms just before the pour. Hoping to pour Friday.

 

[captjohn]

Here's an update on my barn. Framing is almost complete. Still need some wind bracing and loose ends done today. I'll add pictures of the top beam and shelter details next. The pic of the back of the barn shows the forms pulled down revealing the concrete footing. Still needs to be cleaned up.