$1000 Coolant Change Part 2 The Answer

[CalG]

You have 40 yr old batteries in your vehicles?

Where did the batteries come in regard to the referenced comment?

Reading with a closed mind.... This is a "coolant" thread.

I'm waiting for the OP to report on the reply from the anti freeze maker like he said he would ;-)

 

[DK35vince]

in the 40+ years ive been working on cars and engines in general, ive NEVER used anything but tap water in radiators. never have had a failure to date.

Same here. Never an issue

 

[grsthegreat]

You have 40 yr old batteries in your vehicles?

??/ i never said batteries anywheres in my post. i said radiator.

 

[buickanddeere]

So how are you testing your tap water batteries compared to distilled water batteries ? I assume you must have analysis of a quantitative sample of batteries under otherwise identical service . Then preform quarterly tests of CCA , amp hours and service life?
We also need a definition of "tap water" as it varies around the world.

 

[murphy1244]

Too many Lawyers on TBN. He never said batteries!

 

[grsthegreat]

what is it with you and batteries. no one here has said anything about batteries...except YOU

were all talking radiators.

in case your confused, a battery looks like


and a radiator resembles this

 

[DK35vince]

Anybody that uses tap water instead of distilled water in a coolant system . Is just out and out asking for trouble.

We are responding to your post about cooling systems.
Not batteries.

 

[buickanddeere]

If you care to note. I spoke of cooling systems at 03:26 and it was Skyhook at 09:10 started the battery topic at 09:10 .
Just how did you complainers miss that point ?

 

[murphy1244]

Re: $1000 Coolant Change Part 2 The Answer








Quote Originally Posted by grsthegreat View Post

in the 40+ years ive been working on cars and engines in general, ive NEVER used anything but tap water in radiators. never have had a failure to date.

maybe its the water i use.

also, service stations, lube shops, etc all use tap water in those hoses.
You have 40 yr old batteries in your vehicles?

You quoted his Post and we all saw that except you.

 

[grsthegreat]

all we were mentioning is the use of TAP water in radiators and that it doesnt cause any harm. you went off and bitched about batteries. we didnt

but enough of this. im going to go hitch up my horses to the cart and go for a drive. nice and sunny out

later all

 

[skyhook]

Exactly, distilled water in Rad's or batteries, nonsense.
Although I've heard it's not to bad in whiskey.

 

[applepicker]

Here are the test results and the companies' interpretation. I only had 1 overheating episode and do not have electrolysis in the radiator. I suspect that I got a bad, old etc. Fleet Charge and is the source of the problem. My bill was $800.

Email from Manufacturer:

I have attached the lab results for the Fleet Charge in your tractor.

As you can see the major contaminate in that antifreeze is aluminum. The
highest ppm their meter will register at the lab is 999, so it is entirely
possible that the content was much higher. The white substance that you see
is solid aluminum oxide.

This substance will definitely clog the core of the radiator and cause and
overheating condition. The over heating is what depleted all of the
nitrite, as you can see the content had dropped all the way to 11 ppm.
where the level on a 50/50 should be around 1350 ppm new. The extremely
high temperatures cause the nitrite to convert to NH3 and NH4, which give
the sample you sent that strong ammonia smell.

Ultimately what I think happened is that the radiator began to deteriorate
over time, causing the operating temperature to rise. The aluminum began to
break down under the heat stress, causing the solid matter to clog the
radiator which ultimately caused the failure. The odd thing is the
degradation acids are still low (glycolate and formate) which would
indicate that this antifreeze hasn't been in the system very long, yet
somehow the glycol didn't become acidic in the overheating process. Since
this obstruction from radiator failure was probably in the making for a
while, the new antifreeze probably didn't have much time to break down,
other than the nitrite converting almost right away.

Here is only other thing that could possibly, although much less likely, be
the cause of all of this as well. Electrolysis can also cause the metal to
be attacked, while keeping degradation acids low. If there is a poor
electrical system ground somewhere and the coolant becomes conductive, then
this type of aluminum corrosion will not take long to occur. I'm sure the
dealer may have checked this, or if not it would be helpful to eliminate
the possibility. Any reading over .2 volts in the coolant cause be
considered harmful.

 

[coveredbridge]

Anybody that uses tap water instead of distilled water in a coolant system . Is just out and out asking for trouble.

I don't mean to be piling on, but I did just change the antifreeze in my JD 820 this past weekend. Page 57 of the operators manual states "Replace it (antifreeze solution) by a solution that consists of 55% antifreeze-rust inhibitor agent (ethylene glycol) and 45% of pure, SOFT, water." (emphasis added)

That is what I used, softened water from my tap. I would not, however, use the calcium and iron-laced hard water directly from my well.

My BX1500 manual says to use "clean, fresh water". I guess that's open to interpretation. Something else I did just notice in my Kubota manual is that is says "Do not use radiator cleaning agents when antifreeze has been added to the cooling water. (Antifreeze contains an anti-corrosive agent, which will react with the radiator cleaning agent forming sludge which will affect the engine parts.)"

 

[grsthegreat]

Something else I did just notice in my Kubota manual is that is says "Do not use radiator cleaning agents when antifreeze has been added to the cooling water. (Antifreeze contains an anti-corrosive agent, which will react with the radiator cleaning agent forming sludge which will affect the engine parts.)"

woo, never heard about that....needs some more research i can see....

 

[texasjohn]

So, best I can tell, the current status is...Aluminum radiator began breaking down over a long period of time and that's where the clogged radiator came from, which heated things up. The new antifreeze is believed to not be at fault, just a coincidence. And the OP got no relief with the $800 repair bill.

Did I get it right?

 

[sandyc]

So the take away is to change your A/F every two years and refill with 50/50 blend (either factory or home diluted) after rinsing out all of the old A/F. Make sure rad screen and fines are clean.

 

[JOHNTHOMAS]

So, best I can tell, the current status is...Aluminum radiator began breaking down over a long period of time and that's where the clogged radiator came from, which heated things up. The new antifreeze is believed to not be at fault, just a coincidence. And the OP got no relief with the $800 repair bill.

Did I get it right?

I think that's it and possibly a short in electrical system caused or contributed to the degradation of the radiator or possibly started the degrading which when started continued on its rampant path to destruction or a $800 repair bill. Antifreeze was not at fault per se but it was partly at fault since it is a liquid which conducts electricity. Not sure I picked up on frequency of changing antifreeze as having any of the fault. Maybe I missed that. Don't think I read the part pertaining to distilled water, tap water or even bottled water or muddy water.

 

[skyhook]

So, best I can tell, the current status is...Aluminum radiator began breaking down over a long period of time and that's where the clogged radiator came from, which heated things up. The new antifreeze is believed to not be at fault, just a coincidence. And the OP got no relief with the $800 repair bill.

Did I get it right?

I would say the same. (cheap rad components)
Unless someone had recently done some (arc) welding and used the rad as a ground source,,
sounds like a defective rad core to me.

 

[buickanddeere]

For those of you who skipped chemistry 101. Take a look in the bottom of a tea kettle . Those minerals will degrade both cooling systems and batteries.

 

[kuboman]

As implied by the previous post the reason for using distilled water in radiators is to prevent the minerals in tap water from precipitating out. Some of which will attach themselves to various metal components of the coolong system. Also some of the minerals will react with components of the anti-freeze causing various problems.
As for batteries the minerals in tap water interfere and contaminate the electrolyte.
Will any of this cause catastrophic failure? Not usually but will certainly limit the life of the component.