Buying Advice sub compact or compact tractor?

warky715 · Feb 22, 2014

Hi everybody,

I am researching buying my first tractor (probably still at least a year away), and just get confused over what I need or don't need depending on who I talk to or what I read.

First I guess I'll start by saying I have just over 3 acres that's all grass but 2.5 acres is a field that isn't very smooth. The rest is my residential lot with trees and fenced area. I currently have a John Deere x540 that gets the job done but takes awhile to get the grass cut and is hard on the back and kidneys out in the field.

My future plans are to dig a small pond, mini bike track, post hole dig for a new fence and pole barn, add a separate driveway, dig out for patio, dig around house and redo storm drains along with the typical gardening stuff and whatever else I can think of over the next several years.

So now the actual question is what size tractor do I really need? speed isn't as much of a factor as is just the tractor being able to do the job without breaking. I am leaning towards the sub compact just because it would be more nimble for grass cutting (could sell my rider to offset some cost) and easier to trailer.

I have looked at the kioti cs2410 and their ck line up. Also the Massey 1710 tab and there is always the Kubota's and John Deere's. The closest dealer to me is a kioti dealer and they seam real friendly and have a good reputation. The Massey dealer I got the same vibe from. I was honest with them and said I wasn't looking to buy anytime soon but was getting a fell for what I liked etc., they both offered to let me drive them around and the Massey offered to even drop one off at my house to try it out.

Both dealers said I would be good with a sub but most people are telling me more power is better and subs aren't real tractors. I don't have any real experience with tractors myself and don't know anybody that owns a sub compact to get a trusted opinion from without a sale motivating them.

Anyway sorry for the long post just trying to give as much info as possible. Would love feed back from people who actually have a kioti or Massey sub compact and can comment on the durability of them.

Thanks.

pinetree10 · Feb 22, 2014

The Massey dealer offered to drop one off at your house? I've never heard of that but it sounds like a decent offer. As far as the comments you may have heard about SCUTs not being real tractors, I'll bet more than a few guys on this site will disagree. They seem to get an awful lot done around their properties with those machines and my bet is you would too. You might give it a run for its money with your list of things to do but if it's outfitted right you might be able to make it work. I use a 2720 so I'll leave this one to the SCUT owners.

SSdoxie · Feb 22, 2014

A sub will do a lot work, just might take a little longer. I was debating the same thing, but went to the CUT mainly for the loader carrying capacity. I do mostly loader work with mine and need the extra capacity.
One other point to consider is availability of attachments. Although most SCUTS are Cat 1 3pt., quite a few of the conventional cat 1 implements don't work all that well on the SCUT.

motownbrowne · Feb 22, 2014

Buy the most tractor that'll fit where you need it to. The price difference is pretty small between different size/weight tractors with similar HP. That weight and tire size means a lot more power to the ground. Also fel and 3pt lift capacity goes up when you get into the cuts, which is nice. If I was gonna spend that kinda money, I would sure get the bigger machine.

Looking4new · Feb 22, 2014

:welcome:

I would accept the offer from Massey and after trying it out for a week, pitch the same offer to Kioti , Kubota and JD. Myself, I have a CK27 Kioti so I will let the guys with the little ones answer the rest of your questions.

TripleR · Feb 22, 2014

I guess I am one of the "guys with the little ones" and "not a real tractor" as we have a BX2200, BX2660 and John Deere 2305. I consider a SCUT a "real" tractor just as I do our L5740, M8540 or any of the several others we own, just designed for different tasks.

We have found our SCUT's to be really handy for mowing our yard and other activities with a FEL, box scraper, rotary cutter, tiller etc., but I can't recommend one for the OP. Yes, you can do it with a SCUT, but I sure wouldn't want to.

Personally I would just keep the mower for mowing and buy a good sized CUT for everything else.

murphy1244 · Feb 22, 2014

TripleR said:
I guess I am one of the "guys with the little ones" and "not a real tractor" as we have a BX2200, BX2660 and John Deere 2305. I consider a SCUT a "real" tractor just as I do our L5740, M8540 or any of the several others we own, just designed for different tasks.

We have found our SCUT's to be really handy for mowing our yard and other activities with a FEL, box scraper, rotary cutter, tiller etc., but I can't recommend one for the OP. Yes, you can do it with a SCUT, but I sure wouldn't want to.

Personally I would just keep the mower for mowing and buy a good sized CUT for everything else.

x2 Totally agree with 3R on this as a Scut will be to small for all that digging.

PHPaul · Feb 22, 2014

I have right at 4 acres. About 1/4 acre of that is lawn, the rest is sheep pasture.

I have an '88 John Deere 750 that I bought new. I'm guessing that qualifies as a CUT. I have cleared 2+ acres of brush, built hundreds of feet of fence, dug up humungous rocks, dug footings for buildings, kept that acreage mowed with a finish mower, bushhogged alders, plowed snow, tilled gardens, manufactured firewood, hauled logs and moved more dirt than I could even estimate.

I have never wished for a smaller tractor. By the same token, I have never seriously lusted after a bigger one. Oh, power steering and a full synchro transmission would be nice, but that little booger has done everything I've ever asked of it, and some things I had no right to ask of it.

In other words, like other posters have said: Keep the rider and go with a CUT.

Gittyup · Feb 22, 2014

I'd keep the 540 and get a CUT, like a CK. The CK's are too heavy to mow with though.

If you can only have one, then I'd probably go SCUT. And I am in the camp that they are not "real" tractors. Have you checked out the Mahindra Max lineup? Kind of the best of both worlds. Maybe a little bigger than a SCUT. I really like the lift capacity vs. their size. Pretty nice tractors. The JD 1-series are really well designed for mowing with the auto connect mower and easy park loaders. The TYM T2xx series is nice too; short wheelbase; good specs. LS seems to be an up and comer, and I think they have a model very similar to the CS2410.

I doubt you will find that a SCUT gets your grass cut any faster.

grm61 · Feb 22, 2014

I'd keep the 540 for mowing around the house, and get a CK or DK series Kioti for the rest of your chores, I would go DK myself.(I did and am happy

)
You might also consider figuring out how to make your puchase NOW, while their are still some tier 3 machines available, You will save yourself 3 or 4 grand up front, and maintenance expenses down the road. Very shortly all that will be available is tier 4 machines.

warky715 · Feb 22, 2014

Thanks for the info guys, I had decided to keep my lawn mower and get a cut after my last time out looking around but when I stopped by the Massey dealer today he was really talking up the scut. now I'm back to thinking that a cut would be better in the long run.

Now the next question would be what CUT to get. I like the local Kioti dealer, I live in a small town and it's a family owned business that's been around since the 1960's (my family runs a small mechanical company in the same town) so I kind of like that. They're not flashy with a big showroom and all the jazz but seem to run a good business and I believe I can trust them (word spreads quickly if you don't take care of people).

Locally we have quite an assortment of dealers for being such a small area. The local Deere dealer doesn't really stock tractors and he seems nice enough but his pricing seems a bit high (maybe just the green paint not the dealer). The local Kubota dealership just got bought out by the New Holland dealer and they wouldn't give me the time of day when I was in there so I won't give them a dime of my $. There are no Ls, tym or the smaller manufactures within what I would call driving or servicing distance.

The kioti dealer seems to push towards the ck30 or ck35 just because he says it's the same tractor with just a few more horses pushing the hydraulics and not much of a price difference. I think he still has one or two ck20's left but I haven't stopped in since before Christmas. When I drove the ck20 I liked the size of the tractor but the operator platform seemed cramped and I'm not a big person. The ck30 platform seemed roomy but the tractor seemed a bit intimidating in size but maybe it's just because it was my first time on tractors?

motownbrowne · Feb 22, 2014

They shrink when you bring them home. Don't be intimidated. Do be cautious, but soon driving the tractor will feel like second nature.

cartod · Feb 22, 2014

Good decision on the CUT. As far a brand, I think they are all good. I would pick out the options you must have and then go shopping. Hydrostatic, power steering, 4wd, and a strong loader were all of my must haves. Good luck and post pics when you get it..

Gittyup · Feb 22, 2014

If your use of the PTO on the CUT is limited, then you don't need the HP. A CK27 will dig and pull just as well as the CK30 or CK35. of course, the higher HP has better resale, and better PTO performance.

There is a big difference between the CK20 and the rest. The bigger CKs give you 3 range HST or a 2 range shuttle shift, live PTOs, and extendible 3 PH arms, and most importantly: much higher hydraulics flow. A CK20 would work for you, but its big brothers will work even better. Mine has been one hard working digging beast. With only 25 HP, I haven't wanted for more. But, my PTO uses are limited to post hole digger and chipper/shredder. Even on 5" branches, my CK25 did fine. Just had to feed the big branches a little slower.

I think a DK is overkill for your needs.

jimpen · Feb 22, 2014

In my case I bought a Mahindra Max25 with FEL, MMM, and backhoe last year. That was after trying to keep up with 4 acres of mowing for many years using MTD pieces of crap.

The MMM allows me to get all the cutting done in about four hours.

The FEL allows me to move crap. I did buy an add-on of pallet forks for oversize items that are still under weight. The FEL also helped me keep the driveway open this winter.

The backhoe allows me to pull fence posts that are 8-10' long railroad ties from the prior owner. I was also able to dig a burn pit for trash that is 10X15 by six feet deep.

The tractor also allowed me to pull my car to the end of the driveway to get out this year.

The backhoe is only like 18 inches wide. But it still does the job very well.The fifty inch FEL means that I have to do two passes for the driveway. The MMM does very well.

I would advise that you determine the main components you need before you buy. Things like bush hogs, post hole diggers, and box scrapers are relatively cheap to rent or buy. But if you need a backhoe, it will be an added $2500+ cost and is harder to finance later. Where if you finance it with the initial purchase it gets added in on the loan. Same with the FEL.

So look at what you need then make the decision based on that.

grm61 · Feb 23, 2014

Kioti has the free loader program.
As has been mentioned before these tractors shrink once you get used to them.
I would get at minimum a CK/30/35, there are many very satisfied CK owners, and there are some that have traded up to a DK after longing for more loader capacity.
I think you would be perfectly happy with a CK30/35..however, you should look at all your options to make a informed decision.
The loader capacity on a CK30 is 1155lbs, on a DK series it is 2761lbs.
You get alot more tractor, for not that much more money.
If your thinking about a hoe, get it when you purchase your tractor, alot of folks will try to steer you away from one saying in the long run its cheaper to rent one etc, I use mine quite a bit, I like the convenience of having it anytime I need it.
But that is just me, your mileage may vary.

I think a DK is overkill for your needs.

Why?
If it fits,you can afford it, and you have permission, is there such a thing?

Working in the middle of a machines rated capacity is safer, and easier on the machine,(and you), than working on the outer limits.
Doing more work easier and faster is not a bad thing.
Having enough tractor for whatever need may arise isn't a bad thing either.

pinetree10 · Feb 23, 2014

After looking at the Kioti website I was surprised to see that the CK 20 is actually a little heavier than my 2720 and the CK 30 is more than 1,000 lbs. heavier at about the same HP as my tractor. I didn't realize there was that much weight difference between some manufacturers at similar HP ratings. There are some good threads on SCUTs if you search this site (http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/kioti-owning-operating/201662-backhoe-kioti-ck20-hst.html), specifically showing what the CK 20 can do but you said you want a CUT so I'll stick to that category. I've only owned one tractor so I can't speak about others but I would think with all the digging you want to do you might want that extra weight behind you. Not sure how 30 HP does at moving 3,100 lbs. around but I've moved a lot of dirt and firewood with mine at 31 HP and 2,000 lbs. You mentioned the 30 platform was roomy but the size was intimidating. I think you'll find that these CUTs are very maneuverable in tight spaces and very easy to operate. If you use it often you'll get used to it quickly.

TripleR · Feb 23, 2014

Like most, I've found that tractors do seem to "shrink" once you bring them home and it doesn't seem to matter how long you've been using tractors. I well remember telling my wife an L5030HSTC was too big and I really thought a 35-40HP would be better and we had 60-70-80HP tractors already. Well I got it and yes my wife had to talk me into it; embarrassing.

I like most brands in certain models and it sounds like you are certainly in the ball park with the CK30/35 or equivalent in another brand and a good dealer is really important, to me anyway.

We can probably all identify with your confusion as we could name twenty or more makes/models that will work well for your needs.

I am one of those who rents a small excavator once enough chores pile up rather than buy a back hoe with the tractor. We do own a backhoe my dad bought used quite a few years ago and used the heck out of it while establishing our various home sites, clearing up logged property etc., but then it sat unused for years and needs work. Renting is better for us than owning, but for others it's great.

Good luck.

Looking4new · Feb 23, 2014

You say there is a good Kioti dealer in town. IF he can supply what you want/need, then I would go with him. I am a firm believer in dealing 'local'.
As for size, Yes they do shrink once you get them home, and do get the BH included in the loan at purchase time.