Heating a new metal building

[enterprisebbc]

After much thought on heating this building which is 18x 26 I am going to use a convection lp heater 100-200000 btu. I have an old Atlantic wood stove I was going to use and have the pipe go up on the inside then elbow out. Was told because of creosote I should go completly through the roof no elbows. I'm not going to put a hole in roof for thr few times I might have to use it. I want to use 2 40lb LP tnks. for the ease of moving them to fill up. Will they be enough and will they freeze up themselfs. I know they recomend 100lb tnks. or the wood stove? WTF?

 

[George2615]

If your going to use your bldg. occasionally the 2 40lb tanks will be fine. I have a 100lb tank kept outside all winter for cooking stove only and it doesn't freeze up.
If you are going to heat the bldg. on a daily basis 2- 40lb ers wont last long. Why don't you get a 2- 100lb tanks or a 300lb tank and have them deliver when it gets empty.

 

[grsthegreat]

I installed a 125,000 BTU propane heater in my shop, and was toying with the idea of using small tanks. Had the figures run by a heating contractor friend of mine.... no way did i want to mess with that. I contacted my propane supplier and asked about renting an additional 250 gal tank that could be filled when they fill my 500 gal tank at the house. They recommended just running a high pressure line underground between the existing tank and my shop. This run is about 300 feet. They told me if i provide the trench, they would supply and install pipe for free.

Boy, i jumped at this offer. I was running new power lines to shop anyways.

Now, as for elbow chimney stack. there is nothing wrong with using an elbow. As a matter of fact they make a special cleanout style 90 bend that allows for very easy creasote cleaning when needed. Alot of my neighbors use them without any issues.

 

[Loadstar]

I would venture to bet you will get frosty lazy propane using 40lb jugs.

 

[enterprisebbc]

I called my Gas folks and they told me I need a building permit plus the cost of intalling renting or buying the tanks, one 1oolb tank $320 to buy which came to nearly $500. I would have loved to have it deliver at fill up but they price themselfs out of it. I do have a 100lb for my stove and generator but they are on the opposite side of the house. I understand that if you hook up a manifold to both 40lb tanks when running at full blast it wont ice up. What did the 2 100lb tanks cost you or did you rent them?

 

[George2615]

Wow, price sure is high in your area or else prices have gone up significantly since I bought mine. Originally I had a 300 lb tank from one company and they delivered propane when I called them (about once a year). Then after 20 years of their tank sitting on my property they decided to start charging an annual fee just to have the tank. The annual fee cost more than the annual propane I was using for cooking so I told that company to come pick up their tank. Fortunately we have many propane companies in my area so I called another company and bought a single 100lb. tank. That was about 4 years ago and cost about $150 with regulator plus fill up. When empty I load it on my trailer, take it to the propane place about a mile away and get it filled (about $57 to fill). The hard part is when I get back with it. It's pretty heavy once filled but my small trailer is low to the ground so I only have to lower it about a foot off the trailer to the ground then roll it back in place and hook it up. Luckily I only have to fill it a couple times a year.

 

[KennyG]

For occasional use, I wouldn't mess with the propane and tanks. I heat my 40x48 building most weekends with a wood stove and I use a 70K diesel/kerosene torpedo heater to take the edge off while I build the wood fire or if I'm only working a few hours. The new diesel heaters have very little odor and don't need much venting. I put my vent straight through the roof but elbowing out, with a cleanout elbow is a great way to go.

 

[kenmac]

If it's insulated well, I don't think you need 100-200k heat. I heat my 24x42 shop with an 80 K BTU NG furnace. I used round metal pipe for the duct and cut holes in it

 

[rhett]

If efficiency is of interest, the "Rocket Stove" principle seems it might fit this topic. Below are links to one example that has detail for the project. Larger or even "Mass Heat Systems" could be employed. They are inexpensive to operate and build. There is a lot of information out there for design and construction.

Zero's website: Wood burning Rocket Stove heater plans

A well prepared PDF document by Zero: http://alt-nrg.org/images/rocket/Zero's_Rocket.pdf

You-tube video's by Zero: #322 Lab DONE! Rocket Stove Mass Heater begins! - YouTube

Note: Personally I have only tried a small brick Rocket Stove for cooking and it works great. (about 32 bricks stacked loosely)

 

[coobie]

I called my Gas folks and they told me I need a building permit plus the cost of intalling renting or buying the tanks, one 1oolb tank $320 to buy which came to nearly $500. I would have loved to have it deliver at fill up but they price themselfs out of it. I do have a 100lb for my stove and generator but they are on the opposite side of the house. I understand that if you hook up a manifold to both 40lb tanks when running at full blast it wont ice up. What did the 2 100lb tanks cost you or did you rent them?

That price is CRAZY.I bought a 100 lb tank at the local farm store for $99 bucks and had it filled for $1.25 gal.I had my Barn 28X34X14 sidewalls sprayed insulation (walls and ceiling)2-3 inches thick for around $2,000.I heat with a wall mounted 30,000 BTU propane heater and 100 lb tank.It stays 75 degrees when it,s ZERO degrees outside.

 

[DJ54]

I have two sources of heat. One is a 140,000 btu waste oil furnace, and the other is a wood/coal stove. Haven't gotten the WOF set up in the new shop yet, so just heating with the coal stove. The furnace is one of next years projects.

In the shop at the other farm, the WOF kept it nice and toatsy in my 32' X 36' shop very easy. I could heat all winter on between 350 and 400 gallons of used oil. It does need the heated nozzle mechanism cleaned about every 750 hrs. of burn time, which usually falls about the end of Jan. Takes about an hour to do, which seems like forever if it's close to zero outside. That's why I put in the coal stove, so as to save on oil, and a source of heat when servicing it.

I learned long before using the WOF, and when using a regular oil furnace to heat the shop, the big secret is to keep the concrete floor fairly warm. So when not in the shop, I set the thermostat down to about 45º -50º. Otherwise, you're only warm from the knees up until that floor gets warm.

I wouldn't be too concerned with creosote buildup if you use dry wood, ideally cut 2 years ahead. Coal is fairly reasonable here in price. I can get it from the mine for $75.00 per ton, and can hand pick for that price. I worked out there a lot last winter, and although the temps weren't all that severe, probably went through 1-1/2 tons, and the shop is not completely insulated, and sided, even yet today. It kept the shop at a comfy working temp of 60º to 65º, and not firing it real hard, just keeping the optimum burn temps on the stove at around 500º.

 

[AndyG]

Rhett's post has had me looking at youtube videos of rocket stoves for an hour and a half. I'm a wood stove fan but I'm always looking for more heat from less wood = less work for me. I use a waste oil drip system in my wood stove and its easy to see that it would work with the rocket stove. You might even fuel the rocket stove with propane. Insulate your building and seal it up from drafts. Does the ridge cap has a closure seal under it? Do you have a sliding door on the building? Lots of wind will come in around the top of a sliding door if you do not seal it. The edges of an overhead door also need to be sealed.

 

[rhett]

If anyone is interested, below is a link to a 61 page document that gives a little more detail about Rocket Stove principles and instructions for building.

http://gse.cat.org.uk/downloads/Practical_Document_Rocket_Stoves.pdf

 

[enterprisebbc]

If it's insulated well, I don't think you need 100-200k heat. I heat my 24x42 shop with an 80 K BTU NG furnace. I used round metal pipe for the duct and cut holes in it

This bld. is not insulated or is it sealed being the sides are corrigated. Next yr I might change that.

 

[enterprisebbc]

Rhett's post has had me looking at youtube videos of rocket stoves for an hour and a half. I'm a wood stove fan but I'm always looking for more heat from less wood = less work for me. I use a waste oil drip system in my wood stove and its easy to see that it would work with the rocket stove. You might even fuel the rocket stove with propane. Insulate your building and seal it up from drafts. Does the ridge cap has a closure seal under it? Do you have a sliding door on the building? Lots of wind will come in around the top of a sliding door if you do not seal it. The edges of an overhead door also need to be sealed.

The cieling is insulated but the sides are not and there are holes at the corners where the corrigated metal meet. The doors have large spaces espiecialy at the top. They have a broom type insulation I will use on the doors next year. Yes the ridge cap is sealed. These doors are the roll=up type.

 

[AndyG]

The cieling is insulated but the sides are not and there are holes at the corners where the corrigated metal meet. The doors have large spaces espiecialy at the top. They have a broom type insulation I will use on the doors next year. Yes the ridge cap is sealed. These doors are the roll=up type.

Last winter I gave up working in my shop (48X30 pole building) on windy winter days because I couldn't fire the stove hard enough to warm it up. This winter I'm concentrating on sealing the building better so that the wind doesn't blow through. The 10X15 sliding door is on the NW corner where the cold winter wind comes from. I noticed a LOT of air blowing in around the door. Go inside with the lights out and see where the sunlight is coming in. If light comes in so does cold air. You can also go outside at night and look for light coming out of the building. I recommend concentrating on stopping the wind before insulation.

 

[muddstopper]

I would probably just buy a barrel stove kit and heat with wood. Barrel stoves put out a lot of heat really fast. we used to have a 5gal bucket hanging on the wall we would dump our waste oil in. We used a small pitcock valve and copper line and ran it into the barrel stove. This let the oil drip down onto the wood. You could throw a large round in the stove, turn on the oil, light a paper rag and throw in and pretty soon you have a roarinfg fire. Seemed as long as the oil dripped, the wood never burnt up. One log would last all night. Throw a pot of beans or stew beef on top of the stove and cook your dinner while you work.

 

[JJZ 109]

That price is CRAZY.I bought a 100 lb tank at the local farm store for $99 bucks

I was thinking the same thing. I bought 2 - 100 lb. tanks, one at Lowe's and the other at my local indy hardware store. A little over $100 at each place. $320 for a 100 pounder is crazy alright.

 

[DeereMann]

+1

I installed a 125,000 BTU propane heater in my shop, and was toying with the idea of using small tanks. Had the figures run by a heating contractor friend of mine.... no way did i want to mess with that. I contacted my propane supplier and asked about renting an additional 250 gal tank that could be filled when they fill my 500 gal tank at the house. They recommended just running a high pressure line underground between the existing tank and my shop. This run is about 300 feet. They told me if i provide the trench, they would supply and install pipe for free.

Boy, i jumped at this offer. I was running new power lines to shop anyways.

Now, as for elbow chimney stack. there is nothing wrong with using an elbow. As a matter of fact they make a special cleanout style 90 bend that allows for very easy creasote cleaning when needed. Alot of my neighbors use them without any issues.

Exactly what I did, except we have pipeline natural gas in our area. I have wood burners in basement - as long as you burn DRY hardwoods, no creosote. Decades worth of usage.

Good luck!

 

[3238dpw]

I would probably just buy a barrel stove kit and heat with wood. Barrel stoves put out a lot of heat really fast. we used to have a 5gal bucket hanging on the wall we would dump our waste oil in. We used a small pitcock valve and copper line and ran it into the barrel stove. This let the oil drip down onto the wood. You could throw a large round in the stove, turn on the oil, light a paper rag and throw in and pretty soon you have a roarinfg fire. Seemed as long as the oil dripped, the wood never burnt up. One log would last all night. Throw a pot of beans or stew beef on top of the stove and cook your dinner while you work.

This is interesting to me. Did you have to clean your chimney more or less with this system? Do you have any more details on this? Pictures etc... Is there any concern about the oil igniting and traveling up the tube into the bucket?