Diesel: cold weather starting
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forgeblast
Elite Member
Just wondering out loud here.
I am thinking of getting the 2014 dodge 1500 diesel. I live in North East Pa, so we have winter and cold and snow.
I do not currently have a garage so the truck would be out in the driveway.
Is it dumb then to look at the diesel? We were also thinking of eventually switching over my wifes jetta to a vw diesel also. Our reasons for the diesels were for the engine longevity, and the mileage they get. Sorry for the off topic post but there are a lot of diesel people posting here.
I am thinking of getting the 2014 dodge 1500 diesel. I live in North East Pa, so we have winter and cold and snow.
I do not currently have a garage so the truck would be out in the driveway.
Is it dumb then to look at the diesel? We were also thinking of eventually switching over my wifes jetta to a vw diesel also. Our reasons for the diesels were for the engine longevity, and the mileage they get. Sorry for the off topic post but there are a lot of diesel people posting here.
vtsnowedin
Elite Member
If it has a block heater and you can park it in reach of an extension cord it should be fine.
terryknight
Veteran Member
use a heavy extension cord
So long as:
1) Batteries are healthy.
2) Fuel system is managed properly.
Then modern diesels start at pretty low temperatures.
What do I mean by "managing" the Fuel system ?
1) Get religion about changing the fuel filters on the factory schedule, if not sooner.
2) Buy your diesel at a reputable high volume (as in major truck stop) location.
3) If you hold onto your vehicles longer than 3-4 years, then read up on treating diesel fuel. Personally I use Stanadyne, other folks have done well with Howes, Optilube XPD etc. Regular use helps manage water and other wear issues.
Some people consider these additives a waste of money. Then again, some people are replacing injectors at not much past 100,000 miles. Read up, and even better yet, stop into a big injector repair/overhaul shop - these guys get the factory training. Any decent shop will be happy to give you tips on avoiding becoming a major customer way too early.
If you take reasonable care (meaning also always using motor oil to engine OEM spec) of a modern diesel, you should have long service from it.
Last thought - have a really close look at the emmission components warranty. They are not cheap to replace, and I've found in Canada that the manufacturers have been allowed by our govt to cut back the duration of these warranties substantially. I'm mostly not a fan of extended warranties, but for these applications I'd be pricing them out too.
Rgds, D.
dmccarty
Super Star Member
My diesels have never had the luxury of a garage, they all have to sit in the weather. Starting the engines in cold weather with 15Wx40 oil is not impossible it just not fun. My truck and tractor engines did not like start cold with that thick oil but they would start. Simple fix is to run a 5Wx40 or 0Wx40 oil. Starting is not much different in cold vs hot weather and I don't use an engine block heater anymore.
I put additive in the tractor fuel because that fuel can sit. I could easily have warm weather fuel when it gets cold. The only time I put additive in the truck is when the temp falls well below normal. If the temp falls into single digits, I will put some additive in the truck fuel, just to make sure the fuel does not gel. The truck is just shy of 180,000 miles and I have the original injectors.
Gas vs Diesel. When my truck has to be replaced, I will look long and hard at the cost/benefit of owning diesel. Buying a diesel truck made sense in 2001 but I don't know if it makes money sense today. The engines are much more expensive today, fuel is much higher today than in 2001, engine complexity is higher, and gassers seem to have improved in both MPG but also in longevity. The replacement cost of my truck seems to be around $60K! :shocked: Course cars are not cheap either nor are gasser trucks. :confused3: Hopefully the truck will last another dozen years.
Later,
Dan
OP
jymbee
Platinum Member
Several people I know who have always had a diesel pickup, switched to gas when they bought a new truck recently. Primarily for just the reasons you outlined.
PhysAssist
Elite Member
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H
Hi Forgeblast,
From practical experience here in the rust and snow belt between Rochester and Buffalo, our 2001 Ford F-350 with a 7.3 V8 diesel has never been garaged until last winter, and even then it was pretty open and definitely never heated. (the west-facing garage door is 16' wide and without a concrete floor, the door was open 6" all winter long), and as long as all the components are operating correctly, it starts first try almost every time, unless it sits for a few weeks, and then it may take 2 or 3 cycles of the glow plugs to start. Ditto oir Kuboys B2320 since 2011, only it has been in a Shelter Logic temporary garage.
Go for it, especially if you have a need for the torque and power, or if you just like diesels.
Thomas
PS: As has been said several times previously, a block heater doesn't need to be exorbitant and can help reduce start up wear if used judiciously.
PILOON
Super Star Member
I have had diesel pick ups and I now have had my diesel tractor for 10 years.
Magnetic block heaters are close to useless!
A 400 watt in block heater is the way to go!
I have used 2 methods of powering the heater, the first being a dedicated outlet that is switched from inside the house and the latest (and nicest) is a remote controlled wireless switch (like a 'door lock' remote) that I like best. This is always plugged in and ready for a simple push of the button.
Above 0 deg about 1 hour is fine and colder than that I try for 2 hours.
\routine is fairly simple, look at the thermometer, switch heater on, make coffee and by the time I'm dressed to go out the tractor is ready to fire up.
Always B4 cold weather I do oil changes, lube, NEW filter and always add anti gelling additives as I have had gelling more often than I like to admit.
Just in case I also drain the tank sump just in case some water has condensed over the humid summer.
From experience I always have added a tell tale light (like 5-10 watt) in parallel with the block heater to confirm that power goes to my block heater.
(Occasionally an animal or person has snagged the power cord and unplugged me.)
My worst experience was replacing a burnt out block heater at -20 but I prevailed and did it.
Since then I learned that blowing hot air into the air cleaner will help fire up the tractor.(heat gun or hair drier)
NEVER use either as it will be costly! (OK in big cats but not in CUTs)
Naturally something like 5W20 winter oil helps a lot.
My 2 cents.
Magnetic block heaters are close to useless!
A 400 watt in block heater is the way to go!
I have used 2 methods of powering the heater, the first being a dedicated outlet that is switched from inside the house and the latest (and nicest) is a remote controlled wireless switch (like a 'door lock' remote) that I like best. This is always plugged in and ready for a simple push of the button.
Above 0 deg about 1 hour is fine and colder than that I try for 2 hours.
\routine is fairly simple, look at the thermometer, switch heater on, make coffee and by the time I'm dressed to go out the tractor is ready to fire up.
Always B4 cold weather I do oil changes, lube, NEW filter and always add anti gelling additives as I have had gelling more often than I like to admit.
Just in case I also drain the tank sump just in case some water has condensed over the humid summer.
From experience I always have added a tell tale light (like 5-10 watt) in parallel with the block heater to confirm that power goes to my block heater.
(Occasionally an animal or person has snagged the power cord and unplugged me.)
My worst experience was replacing a burnt out block heater at -20 but I prevailed and did it.
Since then I learned that blowing hot air into the air cleaner will help fire up the tractor.(heat gun or hair drier)
NEVER use either as it will be costly! (OK in big cats but not in CUTs)
Naturally something like 5W20 winter oil helps a lot.
My 2 cents.
forgeblast
Elite Member
Thank you all for the info and posts I printed them out to make sure I remember them.
We are also in the epicenter of the Marcellus shale region. CNG gas stations are being planned. It seems that the Diesels have more conversion kits to be able to run duel fuel. Which is a plus. I will need a new vehicle in october 2014, my lease runs out on my car and have need of a truck. My day care bills will be done, and wifes car paid off. So I can finally get a truck.
We have two high volume gas stations in town, with the all the fracking going on the diesel is not sitting.
I plan on holding onto the truck for at least 11 years (daughter is 5 so at 16 she could get my truck).
I have a great mechanic right down the road that has been a great help when it comes to anything car related.
We are also in the epicenter of the Marcellus shale region. CNG gas stations are being planned. It seems that the Diesels have more conversion kits to be able to run duel fuel. Which is a plus. I will need a new vehicle in october 2014, my lease runs out on my car and have need of a truck. My day care bills will be done, and wifes car paid off. So I can finally get a truck.
We have two high volume gas stations in town, with the all the fracking going on the diesel is not sitting.
I plan on holding onto the truck for at least 11 years (daughter is 5 so at 16 she could get my truck).
I have a great mechanic right down the road that has been a great help when it comes to anything car related.
dmccarty
Super Star Member
Forge,
One of the reasons I use either 0Wx40 or 5Wx40 is so I don't have to use the block heater. As I said, the truck will start with 15Wx40 oil but the engine is rock'n and roll'n until the oil warms up and it is not pretty. For my 7.3L engine, the manual said to start the block heater about 3 hours prior to start. It costs me about 50 cents to run the block heater for three hours which works out to $10 a month. There are four months it is cold enough to run the block heater, so the power cost is $40.
$40 buys me some very good but sort a expensive synthetic oil that allows me to NOT use the engine block heater and does provide a bit better MPG. I do run extended miles on 5W40 or 0W40 oil which I don't think I would do on regular dino 15w40 oil.
Amazon is selling oil and these are the prices from Amazon along with the price of JD oil I just bought. The JD oil has been cheaper than Shell 5W40 oil in the past, it just depends on timing to get the better price.
I do miss having a warmed up truck first thing on a cold morning with frost or ice on the windshield.
Later,
Dan
One of the reasons I use either 0Wx40 or 5Wx40 is so I don't have to use the block heater. As I said, the truck will start with 15Wx40 oil but the engine is rock'n and roll'n until the oil warms up and it is not pretty. For my 7.3L engine, the manual said to start the block heater about 3 hours prior to start. It costs me about 50 cents to run the block heater for three hours which works out to $10 a month. There are four months it is cold enough to run the block heater, so the power cost is $40.
$40 buys me some very good but sort a expensive synthetic oil that allows me to NOT use the engine block heater and does provide a bit better MPG. I do run extended miles on 5W40 or 0W40 oil which I don't think I would do on regular dino 15w40 oil.
Amazon is selling oil and these are the prices from Amazon along with the price of JD oil I just bought. The JD oil has been cheaper than Shell 5W40 oil in the past, it just depends on timing to get the better price.
I do miss having a warmed up truck first thing on a cold morning with frost or ice on the windshield.
Later,
Dan
I like xW40 options Dan refers to.
Another option I'd consider "down South", is a synthetic 15W40. I've seen Pour Points of -40 or better on these, so if you don't see much "real" Winter they might do the trick.
Rgds, D.
Another option I'd consider "down South", is a synthetic 15W40. I've seen Pour Points of -40 or better on these, so if you don't see much "real" Winter they might do the trick.
Rgds, D.
PhysAssist
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Consider Dan's post seconded!
Thomas
Thomas
buickanddeere
Super Member
$40 is mere pocket change, very little to pre-warm an engine over four months. Plus you will more than makeup the $40.00 with less fuel consumption, less engine wear, longer lasting battery/starter/alternator and less idling time burning fuel to obtain a clean windshield.
I never seen it worth being proud of how cold an engine will start at without pre-heating.
I never seen it worth being proud of how cold an engine will start at without pre-heating.
PhysAssist
Elite Member
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- Kubota B2320
My vehicles sit at idle while I am cleaning the snow off, and that is the limit. After that they are driven, conservatively, but they are rarely ever fully warmed prior to driving off. This is per the mfg's recommendations. I do make sure that the windshield and windows are fully cleared before driving, something that is a bit of a pet peeve of mine.
I really hate when I see people driving around peering out from a tiny little cleared section of their windshield, with the snow blowing off their cars and blinding the drivers behind them.
I really hate when I see people driving around peering out from a tiny little cleared section of their windshield, with the snow blowing off their cars and blinding the drivers behind them.
buickanddeere
Super Member
Amen. The peephole drivers are a hazard. Cops should be busting them.
buickanddeere
Super Member
Amen. The peephole drivers are a hazard. Cops should be busting them.
dmccarty
Super Star Member
Idling an engine to clear the windshield, or just sitting in traffic, is a waste of expensive fuel and not doing the oil/engine any favors. I have the UOA to show why. I can choose to spend $40 on good oil that starts the engine easily regardless of temperature, provides extended service periods, and provides a bit better MPG for almost a year. Or I can spend $40 for much less value.
Easy choice for me to make.
Later,
Dan
Sitting in North Carolina, sure.
Spend a winter in Canada, and clear 3/4" of ice off your windshield at 5:00 am a few times.... you might end up appreciating block heaters for the geographies they were intended for.
Rgds, D.
dmccarty
Super Star Member
I understand the use of block heaters. I used them for years. But running your engine to remove the ice is BAD. It wastes fuel, puts fuel in the engine oil, and can lead to wet stacking in my engine. When I have to drive after an ice storm I simply put a tarp over the truck. It is easy, cheap and fast.
My point that is being missed, is that for the cost of the power to run a block heater, one can buy an oil the allows one to NOT use the block heater. I am sure there are some places were one might need the block heater AND a synthetic but most of us can skip the heater if using a better oil. Using a block heater to remove ice is a waste of money. Per this thread or the other one about cold weather, I am going to get a heater for the cab to run for those days when there is unexpected ice on the truck. That should remove ice so one can drive without having to idle the engine. In cold weather my truck does not really idle, the computer checks the temp and notices the engine is not warming up and increases the RPM to a fast idle but I know dang well that that fast idle is only burning expensive fuel and not really warming up the truck that much.
I have Used Oil Analysis reports on my truck and tractor that showed fuel in the oil from idling the engines. I DO NOT idle my engines to warm them up. At one time, I was driving in an area that was 15-20 minutes of stop and go traffic out of a total trip time of 60 minutes. That little bit of idle time caused fuel in the oil. I USED to run my tractor at around 1600-1700 RPMS for non PTO work, however that engine speed was putting fuel in the oil. I never idled the engined. Since then I run at 1800-2000 RPMs for non PTO work. Since I no longer drive in that stop and go traffic, the truck no longer has fuel in the oil. With higher RPM's the tractor does not have fuel in the oil either. In the tractor case I was not even close to idle speed but it was still not fast enough.
Idling an engine is bad news and wasteful. Use an engine block heater if one must but a better oil can provide more benefits than paying the power company.
Later,
Dan
