Dump bed hydraulics

[jwmorris]

Monarch is owned by another outfit now but someone there is checking for me.

 

[Dr Dave]

Monarch is owned by another outfit now but someone there is checking for me.

Monarch is now Dynamic Jack, this is a 1 year old pump, that is on a twin ram dump trailer. The return dumps into a hole,they made in the reservoir, it leaked,because there was a cover installed on top, with no clearance. It cracked the reservoir. I will try to locate a replacement, this should work for your trailer. Here is the model number.

Dave

 

[jarokoro]

I think the axle notch is still a weak link and just buy a separate tank or make one

 

[jwmorris]

I think the axle notch is still a weak link...

Why is that and what do you think would make it more solid?

I have seen some torflex axles welded just to the sides of the frames so the bed can be lowered to the ground inside of the "U" of the frame, of some trailers.

Kind of like these.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ujUNqL2pTQ


I figured that the bracing and connecting it to the 3x5x1/4" box would have made it stronger than it ever was. Although much more difficult to change down the road.

 

[jarokoro]

I have torque axles on my 14k GN trailer and when it is loaded close to weight rating the connected axel has a flex to it, similar to round spring axles, I could be wrong but I would think that that flex would bend the axle at the notch in the axle housing, only on light weight trailers 1500 lb spindles have I seen weld on

 

[jarokoro]

They are probably using something like this which is different then what yours and mine is Timbren Axle-Less Trailer Suspension System with Hubs - 4 on 4 - Regular Tires - 2,000 lbs Timbren Trailer Suspension A20RS440

If you look at the dexter axle video Dexter Torflex® Suspension Axles - YouTube
you can see the axle flex

 

[jwmorris]

In the dexter video you linked to the "axle" is only about a foot in length and the flex is inside the tube as it is designed, or am I missing something?

I could add some more angle bracing to the 3x5 but I still can't see that it is needed.

 

[jarokoro]

in the video it is cross sectional so you can see how its made, I would think that the torque from the ends flexing spreads the load through the hole axle which I would think would twist or distort at the notch, I could be wrong and maybe the weight you plan on hauling would not be enough to distort the axel. If nothing else I would box in that notch.

 

[tommu56]

Old used freon or propane tanks are good for hydraulic tanks.

Be careful with the residue and make sure they are vented.

 

[Xfaxman]

in the video it is cross sectional so you can see how its made, I would think that the torque from the ends flexing spreads the load through the hole axle which I would think would twist or distort at the notch, I could be wrong and maybe the weight you plan on hauling would not be enough to distort the axel. If nothing else I would box in that notch.

With the bracing he added on each side of the notch, I don't think it will move.

 

[jwmorris]

I would think that the torque from the ends flexing spreads the load through the hole axle which I would think would twist or distort at the notch,

Oh, I see what you are saying. I doubt that there is much if any rotational torque in the center of the axle as the ends are welded solid at each frame rail. The only twist would be however much the trailer frame will bend.

 

[CDN Farm Boy]

You are partly right on what he's saying on the rotational torque. That I believe you have more than compensated for.

The other part is forces in the vertical plane that he is referring to. With the load of the trailer pushing down on the axle mount there will be corresponding up forces on the tires. Because the tire is out-board of the axle mount, this in effect acts as a lever, creating down forces in the center portion of the axle tube. Take a look at an axle on a empty trailer vs a fully loaded one of the same type. The empty trailer axle will have a slight bow up to it which will flatten out when fully loaded.

It appears in the pic that the front of the ram is still lower than the axle tube. If you were to run a piece of tubing equal to the width of the axle and depth of the notch from the out-board end of where your angle brace meets the axle tube to the outboard side of the other brace, welded to the bottom of the axle tube you'd more than have it compensated for.

 

[jwmorris]

Well got it Put together and lifting today. LD1 was right about the solenoid taking forever to let it gravity down, 2 min and 45 seconds. Even if you use the manual valve, like what's on a bottle jack, it takes 30 seconds. It takes 35 seconds to lift empty. I did manage to use just the 2qt tank on the pump and use the non pressure side of the ram as a reservoir and it works with no leaks or spills.

I still have to drill and tap for adel clamps to hold the hoses and hook the lights back up, then I can go get a load of dirt to see how it works before installing the steel plate in the bed and paint.

I will post some photos when I get a chance.

Edit well after enough up's and down's to make it take 39 seconds up it "only" takes it 1:39 down with the solenoid.

 

[LD1]

Still pretty slow down. An extra hose, and a solenoid valve made for a DA cylinder and your down time would be 25-30 seconds.

 

[jwmorris]

It is, at least the manual valve is easy to get to if I am in a hurry. Just above the solenoid in this photo.

Down the road I may add some features but I am going to be pretty close to my $1500 budget by the time I buy paint. So for now I just have to live with it.

 

[LD1]

I am wondering if that valve block has a port that would be for a DA cylinder??

On a typical valve block, they are labled P, T, A, B
For pressure, tank, A and B are the pressure ports.

If I knew for sure what the other ports in that block were, you could probably get by with just a new cartridge valve. I think they only cost ~$60, plus a bit more hose.

 

[jwmorris]

That would be nice. I will clean it up and take some better photos. I don't really know anymore about these pumps that what I have posted so far, thanks.

The other benifit to it being DA would be not having to latch the bed down. Having already been a tilt trailer it had the latch in place but I have already thought about someone trying to lift it with out releasing the latch.

 

[jwmorris]

I cleaned the pump housing off and there are no markings but there is a plug opposite of the "up out" on top and another plug below the solenoid "down". I bet you are correct and all it would take is one more solenoid and high pressure line to make it power up and down.

I should have paid more attention before I put it together, my mind was elsewhere. Live and learn, I guess.

At this point I am going to give it a try this next week as I think they have two yards of sweepings ready to go. If it doesn't work well enough I will try and see if I can chase down another solenoid.

 

[LD1]

I am no expert. So that last thing I want you to do is spend money on my "hunch". But you need to make sure things are plumbed correctly, and that the fluid on the opposite side of the piston that you are pressurizing has a way to return to the tank.

 

[jwmorris]

I understand and the reason I am going to give it a go with what I have now is that it seems to have a shot at working.

Maybe once the company that owns monarch gets bace to me we will know more.