"Non-aromatic" fuel

[JasG]

Here from Citgo tips for fueling. There is a lot more on the page, but here are the main points.

CITGO.com, Consumer Products, Fuels, Static Electricity

Static electricity-related incidents at retail gasoline outlets are extremely unusual, but the potential for them to happen appears to be the highest during cool and dry climate conditions. In rare circumstances, these static related incidents have resulted in brief flash fires occurring at the fill point.


•Motorists should not get back into their vehicles while pumping gas. It may be a temptation to get back in the car when it is cold, but the average fill-up takes only two minutes, and staying outside greatly minimizes the likelihood of any static electricity build-up that could be discharged at the nozzle.


A build-up of static electricity can be caused by re-entering a vehicle during fueling, particularly in cool or cold and dry climate conditions. If the motorist then returns to the vehicle fill pipe during refueling, the static may discharge at the fill point, causing a flash fire or small sustained fire with gasoline refueling vapors.
•Motorists who cannot avoid getting back into the vehicle should always first touch a metal part of the vehicle with a bare hand, such as the door, or some other metal surface, away from the fill point upon exiting the vehicle.

 

[3930dave]

I didn't know any such law existed. If I'm at a filling station I do say something to people about the static. It's hard to do when I see it and I'm driving by. Most stations around here are self serve with no one watching the pumps.

Vehicles are grounded themselves I believe, the problem is when they have a bed liner, wood or carpet and the static can't get to the frame from what I have read.

This is in the link I posted above.

Great links Jas ! I'm no pilot, but I believe planes must be electrically grounded first, before any fueling is initiated - for the reasons listed.

I'd have to look up Chapter/Verse for Ontario's laws, but I've had an employee at Costco politely remind me to take the cans out of my station wagon before fueling. I knew about the static issue, and was planning to take the cans out already, but was impressed that the employee was well trained enough to be on top of the issue. Costco near me is busy enough that even though it is self-serve, they always have an employee walking patrol near the pumps.

Self Serve.... sigh.... make your problem somebody else's...... double sigh..... Laws will vary, depending where you are, but at a minimum, I'd expect that even a self-serve gas station is on the hook legally (video cameras everywhere) to ensure that no customer is filling up old milk jugs or rubber boots with gasoline. Sometimes, they may have their hands full just pulling off that level of supervision (tired student at the cash, "watching" 20+ pumps).

Static is less of a risk, IMO, than people using illegal containers, but still enough of a hazard that I wanted to bring it up.

This discussion is important enough that I think I'll start another thread, to point out the links Jas has pulled up.

Rgds, D.

Edit - started "Static Electricity hazard while pumping gasoline" over in Safety, to point to the page 2 links in this thread.

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/safety/286560-static-electricity-hazard-while-pumping.html

 

[JasG]

Great links Jas ! I'm no pilot, but I believe planes must be electrically grounded first, before any fueling is initiated - for the reasons listed.

This discussion is important enough that I think I'll start another thread, to point out the links Jas has pulled up.

Rgds, D.

Edit - started "Static Electricity hazard while pumping gasoline" over in Safety, to point to the page 2 links in this thread.

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/safety/286560-static-electricity-hazard-while-pumping.html

I have also read that planes have to be grounded when fueling. I wonder if that is because they can be fueled by a truck that my not have a good ground?

All the things we have come to take for granted, even pumping gas. I must say the one link was new for me, I never thought about getting into our out of a vehicle could cause an issue while fueling.

 

[Scooby074]

I was always told that the spring on a gas pump was the "grounding" mechanism for a fill up at the gas station. Basically the metal spring makes contact with the metal fill hole and inturn the car, making sure all are at the same potential.

When you fill up in the back of the car, truck, whatever the generated static cannot get from the insulated plastic container to ground. If there is enough static in the can it can arc to the ground on the nozzle causing a fire if conditions are right.

Aircraft are filled fast, that means greater chance to have static. Also aircraft are expensive! and generally people involved with aircraft like to go above and beyond when it comes to safety. Aircraft hoses may or may not be conductive so a direct ground connection makes sure that there is no potential between the tanker and aircraft. Also when refilling aircraft from cans, metal ones are preferred. I have a Racor filter funnel that is popular with aircraft owners, it is conductive plastic so that there is no chance for static.

Ive seen self serve stations shut off pumps when a person trys to fill up a can inside a vehicle. Of course this requires the attendant to be paying attention, and not fingering her cellphone behind the counter!

 

[BeeferMan]

I'm still not clear on why, with regards to static discharge, filling up an gas can inside the bed of a truck is any different than filling up the tank of the truck itself? Both are isolated from ground by the rubber tires, both could allow a spark when the nozzle hits the tank/can. Is it the plastic of the gas cans? Would a metal gas can be ok? I can see why *both* could be susceptible to static discharge, but not why one would be a problem and not the other. Some one help me out here...

 

[3930dave]

I'm still not clear on why, with regards to static discharge, filling up an gas can inside the bed of a truck is any different than filling up the tank of the truck itself? Both are isolated from ground by the rubber tires, both could allow a spark when the nozzle hits the tank/can. Is it the plastic of the gas cans? Would a metal gas can be ok? I can see why *both* could be susceptible to static discharge, but not why one would be a problem and not the other. Some one help me out here...

1) One issue is vapour. OEM on-board fuel tanks are designed/managed to minimize the amount of vapour that persists around the fuel fill nozzle. With a basic gas can, vapours are uncontrolled.

2) Plastic is part of the problem. Anything (air, fuel) moving past certain plastics, esp. at speed, can create static. On some computer I have an interesting article on corrosion - one example was a guy who was hauling plastic drainage pipe all the time, stacked on a flatbed trailer (highway tractor). He was replacing the tractor radiator crazy often - turns out the reason was the monumental amount of static induced into the plastic pipes, then the radiator when hauling at highway speed - once he tarped the load, no more dead corroded radiators.

3) OEM on board fuel tanks should be well bonded (electrically) to the car body. Static involves raising electric potential - w/o delving into Eng 201 (a lot I've forgotten anyway), let's just say that if you have a 5 gal. plastic portable fuel jug sitting on a Duraliner in the back of a pickup truck, it is easier to raise the electric potential of the jug (create static) by filling it, than by say pumping 14 gal. into the OEM fuel tank. With the OEM fuel tank electrically bonded to the vehicle, you have to raise the electric potential of the entire vehicle, before you have an equivalent risk of creating static.

In this respect, electric potential is like gravity, you need to utilize more energy to affect a larger mass.

I walked by a gas station yesterday, noticing the heavy metal wrapper guard around the cement island the pumps sit on (down at your feet). Some of it's job is to protect the cement, but perhaps the other thing it's doing is providing a ready made ground path - lean on the car as you fuel, static discharges at a point away from the fuel filler.....

Rgds, D.

 

[BeeferMan]

Good write up Dave, thx...

 

[JasG]

One more thing I have read, don't know how true it is. That the tires are not 100% effective insulators because of the belting and carbon added to the tires. Again, I have no idea if true, but it does make sense from the stand point of even driving static would seem to build up. I've also read that the vehicle system ground helps, again no idea for sure.

I do know this, in the winter if you slide across the seat and then touch a metal part of the car, it can really hurt when the charge jumps. Yet touch a piece of metal on the car and slide across, and you never feel anything. The seat and carpet isolate you from the rest and the charge builds up on you if not connected.


http://blogs.howstuffworks.com/2010...-logging-truck-ignite-and-burn-to-the-ground/

The reason why tires are conductive is that the rubber in tires contains about 50% carbon black. Carbon black can be conductive, especially at high voltages:

 

[BeeferMan]

One bit of error in that article - the reason you are safe inside your vehicle when a high voltage wire falls on it is not really due to the conductive properties of the vehicle to ground, but because the charge on a hollow metal conductor will always reside on the outside of the conductor. So you are safe on the inside. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faraday_cage

 

[JasG]

I also found this which I remembered reading a while ago about low rolling resistance tires build up a static charge.

http://www.cabot-corp.com/wcm/download/en-us/rb/CRP-01-05.pdf

In terms of tire performance, silica-based tires exhibit in
general lower wear resistance than carbon black-based tires 3 and suffer from relatively
lower dry traction performance. Due to the non-conductivity nature of silica, tires made of
silica tend to accumulate static electrical charge. More complex methods of tire productions
are therefore needed to increase the overall electrical conductivity of tires.

 

[3930dave]

You're welcome Beefer.

I know a wizard class high voltage electronic designer - as he puts it "Eventually (meaning high enough voltage), everything is a conductor".

It's all relative..... with a live cable on a car, the human body is a way better conductor than 4 tires - staying in the car is critical. Electricity loves the path of least resistance.

I saw a tidy tank in the back of a township pickup near home recently - it did have a grounding wire w. big alligator clip attached to the tank, with instructions. This issue has been long known (engineering wise), just not commonly understood.

Years back (before rolling resistance was as critical) I remember bad batches of tires that were known for creating a lot of static. It was common to see people add the flourescent grounding straps to the metal bumper, to drag behind the car. I think those straps are still around, but with better tire formulations, aren't needed as much. Hard to find a car with a metal bumper now too !

Rgds, D.

 

[BeeferMan]

It's all relative..... with a live cable on a car, the human body is a way better conductor than 4 tires - staying in the car is critical. Electricity loves the path of least resistance.

This is very true, it's always a bummer when the human body becomes a conductor for high voltage. But it's important to also realize that you don't have to touch the ground and the car at once to be in danger - if you were to climb outside the car and stand on the hood you'd also be in danger as now you are the most external part of the charged vehicle - you will become charged to the same potential as the outside of the vehicle. You are only fully protected if you stay *inside* the vehicle.

 

[dougtrr2]

If we are so concerned about static electricity then why do they not shut down gas stations during thunderstorms. Heaven forbid I slide across a seat, leave a gas can in the car, or use my cell phone while fueling. But no questions asked about fueling in the middle of a lightning storm. Kind of makes you stop and think doesn't it.

When I was a teenager I ran marine/white gas in my little speed boat once. It went like **** for a while and then the engine seized up. You could even pull it over with the rope. As it drifted down river it would cool down and then we could restart it and run like the dickens again until it seized. After about the third or fourth time we noticed the warning that said NOT to use white/marine gas.

Take Care,
Doug in SW IA

 

[Scooby074]

Lightening storms are not the same issue, unless perhaps you are struck in the head while in the process of filling.

The mere act of moving fuel generates static, in the area of the fuel and its vapours. Exactly where you dont want it.

At work we had some pretty flammable solvents. Bonding of storage barrels, pumps and receiving cans was absolutely mandatory when transferring..

 

[3930dave]

For the longest time, buried gasoline tanks at stations were metal. The start of that practice was long before my day, but I suspect they figured out pretty quickly that they better do something significant for lightning protection at gas stations. Modern tanks are now non-metal, but with all the associated piping, I expect there is still extensive lightning protection built into gas station design today.

All that said, if there were lightning bolts crashing down nearby, I'd put off re-fueling till things settled down. Lightning is just too unpredictable. I put that situation in the same category as eating junk food 3 meals a day, 365 days a year. We don't have laws against either behaviour (lightning+gas, non-stop junk), but mostly we'd agree that neither seem prudent.

A guy I worked with years ago had a couple of buddies killed by lightning standing in the middle of a farm field. They were visiting the farm, and stayed away from trees when the storm blew up. What they never knew was that where they were standing in the middle of the field was directly over top of a buried metal irrigation pipe.

There are unknowns that can cause you serious harm, or worse. Many people don't realize that you shouldn't fill a portable gas can while it is in/on a vehicle - that is a known risk - if a few more people understand that after reading this thread, then it's keyboard time well spent.

Rgds, D.

 

[timster2]

With all the new vehicles using plastic fuel tanks remember that the fuel gauge sending unit, fuel pump and associated fuel plumbing are grounded to the vehicle chassis. The fuel entering the tank is discharging static energy to the fuel and plumbing in the tank while fueling.

I have done a lot of educating on the subject of static especially when it comes to electronic components. I would pass a block of Styrofoam around then get my static meter out and show how just handling the Styrofoam packaging has generated several thousand volts of static. Now go and touch that electronic circuit board and discharge that energy into sensitive electronic components and you will have trouble. The trouble could be immediate or take a while to manifest itself but damage was done. There is good reason electronic circuit boards are wrapped in static bags.

 

[3930dave]

In high Winter salt use (or ocean shore) environments, it is a good idea to check the ground strap on the fuel filler tube. Corrosion is bad enough here, that I've seen these straps rotted right off.

Rgds, D.

 

[Scooby074]

In high Winter salt use (or ocean shore) environments, it is a good idea to check the ground strap on the fuel filler tube. Corrosion is bad enough here, that I've seen these straps rotted right off.

Rgds, D.

Ford just had a recall on them about a year ago. My f150 had new straps put on under it. Trucks were dropping tanks on the road because ford didnt apply proper corrosion protection on the tank straps.