Compact 4wd v. Larger 2wd utility tractor?

[GManBart]

To a new user the perception given that 4x4 provides added safety is misguided. A new user needs a bit more respect for wet and slick conditions.

I will agree that 4x4 gives added traction in some situations (like moving snow)

You realize that those two statements are fairly contradictory, right? Added traction increases safety in those instances when it's needed.

Nobody said anyone should do anything crazy, but the reality is 4WD can make for safer operations at times....that's not really in question.

 

[Ted Summey]

Sure when the statements are taken out of context they appear contradictory.

One has to do with new users and the perception that they may get reading some of the posts that 4x4 will provide some significantly greater safety in slick or wet conditions. 4x4 will certainly slide or get stuck in wet conditions it is not a substitute for careful evaluation of conditions prior to operation. I believe there is a current thread of a nice John Deere stuck on a creek bank in the snow. It certainly happens to experienced operators.

Case in point http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/showthread.php?t=273746&p=3227811#post3227811

Moving snow for many TBNers is necessary and I concede that 4x4 is essential IF that is a part of your regular operations AND purpose for owning a tractor.

The question is does the OP from southern Georgia NEED 4x4? I still think not. He is not likely to move much snow and as a hobby farmer wet/slick operations are generally optional. That's the beauty of TBN - the civil difference of opinion.

As for anyone doing something crazy - I believe operation on a wet grass hill with a full FEL bucket as previously posted represents crazy 4x4 or or not!

 

[GManBart]

Moving snow for many TBNers is necessary and I concede that 4x4 is essential IF that is a part of your regular operations AND purpose for owning a tractor.

I don't move any snow with my 4wd tractor, and I couldn't get by easily without it.

There are a lot if reasons aside from moving snow that enter into it. See, that's the funny thing about the "you don't really need it" crowd. Other than added expense, and marginal increases in maintenance costs, when is having 4wd going to be a problem? Pretty much never. There are, however, many times when it's handy, or necessary....and it certainly can make operations safer in some situations. So, from a functional aspect, it's almost never at a disadvantage to 2wd.

I like to ask one simple question to determine which setup is really "better". Two outwardly identical machines are parked in front of you. One has 4wd, the other does not. I offer you either one, absolutely free, because you were my 10k customer.....which do you pick? :dance1:

 

[Ted Summey]

You are getting far from the OP's original question does he need 4x4? Not really in Southern Georgia on a hobby farm.

Is 4x4 a convenience for some? Of course. Is 4x4 necessary for some? Yes. Is it a necessity for all? Of course not. Plenty of farming gets done successfully without 4x4. 4x4 does more to get people into situations they otherwise shouldn't be in. See the following thread as an example

Ballast Planted a tractor, hoping for bumper crop!

I get along just fine with 2wd. Would I take a 4x4 tractor if given to me? You know I would (and that's a false choice btw). Do I require one to operate this 250 farm? No. It was operated since 1948 until around 2005 without one.

 

[Ted Summey]

Oh I forgot, PM me and I'll send delivery instructions for that free tractor! Will it be here by Saturday?

 

[aczlan]

Personally, 4wd would be on my list of required features if I was in a part of GA where the red clay is slippier than snot when wet, there is any kind of slope to the ground and you get sudden torrential downpours in the summer (that is how it was when I lived near Marietta and worked for an electrician around Atlanta and up into North GA).

Aaron Z

 

[TripleR]

Sure when the statements are taken out of context they appear contradictory.

One has to do with new users and the perception that they may get reading some of the posts that 4x4 will provide some significantly greater safety in slick or wet conditions. 4x4 will certainly slide or get stuck in wet conditions it is not a substitute for careful evaluation of conditions prior to operation. I believe there is a current thread of a nice John Deere stuck on a creek bank in the snow. It certainly happens to experienced operators.

Case in point Ballast Planted a tractor, hoping for bumper crop!

Moving snow for many TBNers is necessary and I concede that 4x4 is essential IF that is a part of your regular operations AND purpose for owning a tractor.

The question is does the OP from southern Georgia NEED 4x4? I still think not. He is not likely to move much snow and as a hobby farmer wet/slick operations are generally optional. That's the beauty of TBN - the civil difference of opinion.

As for anyone doing something crazy - I believe operation on a wet grass hill with a full FEL bucket as previously posted represents crazy 4x4 or or not!

If we didn't routinely do this in my part of the country, we would keep our tractors parked an awful lot. My M8540 with Ag tires and a full bucket is extremely stable on wet or dry grass, makes no difference as it digs into the dirt. I don't operate my tractors in the mud on hills, but cattle farmers here routinely haul big round bales in these conditions without incident. There is a point beyond which some prefer not to go, but when raising livestock, you really have no choice.

Agreed, not everyone "needs" a 4WD, we farmed with 2WD for years and still have some, we just don't buy ay new ones without 4WD, "needed" or not we find them to be preferable even on our flatland farm.

 

[Notforhire]

If we didn't routinely do this in my part of the country, we would keep our tractors parked an awful lot. My M8540 with Ag tires and a full bucket is extremely stable on wet or dry grass, makes no difference as it digs into the dirt. I don't operate my tractors in the mud on hills, but cattle farmers here routinely haul big round bales in these conditions without incident. There is a point beyond which some prefer not to go, but when raising livestock, you really have no choice.

Agreed, not everyone "needs" a 4WD, we farmed with 2WD for years and still have some, we just don't buy ay new ones without 4WD, "needed" or not we find them to be preferable even on our flatland farm.

I just went through the 2WD/4WD decision myself. I was able to get 4WD in the same type tractor for an additional $4,000. That's a big extra in my mind, but I felt I would be getting a more usefull, safer, machine in the end, and it will also be easier to resell, if I ever need to.
If I couldn't have come up with the additional 4K, I would have bought the 2WD, and I'm sure it would have worked fine.
It's not that 2WD is bad, it's just that more often than not, 4WD is better. It's if the additional cost can be justified for your own situation/conditions.

Bill

 

[deere5105]

My needs vary greatly from time to time. This past weekend I repaired a creek crossing that flooded this winter. Would not have been possible with 2wd. Trust me I have tried before to no avail with previous tractor. At one point I had to use bucket to assist with pushing out of bog and also to help pull up embankment. This coming weekend I will be planting sweet corn in 36" single rows and cultivating as needed in the future.

Waiting on the creek situation to change was not an option. It won't improve with time and I needed across to check some hunting areas on my fourwheeler.

Have been without the 4wd option before, but do not plan to be without again. My grandfather farmed the land for years without 4wd, but his needs and mine were different. Have yet to hear anyone regret owning a 4wd unit and if loader equipped it makes a huge difference.

 

[jenkinsph]

You are getting far from the OP's original question does he need 4x4? Not really in Southern Georgia on a hobby farm.

Is 4x4 a convenience for some? Of course. Is 4x4 necessary for some? Yes. Is it a necessity for all? Of course not. Plenty of farming gets done successfully without 4x4. 4x4 does more to get people into situations they otherwise shouldn't be in. See the following thread as an example

Ballast Planted a tractor, hoping for bumper crop!

I get along just fine with 2wd. Would I take a 4x4 tractor if given to me? You know I would (and that's a false choice btw). Do I require one to operate this 250 farm? No. It was operated since 1948 until around 2005 without one.

A tractor isn't a necessity for a hobby farmer but it sure is nice to have. Whether a person chooses 4x2 or 4x4 doesn't affect their judgement. Good judgement is needed to stay out of trouble. A 4x4 tractor can aid an operator with good judgement in getting out of trouble or avoiding trouble. I have both 4x2 and 4x4 tractors and have enough experience to avoid trouble in most cases, don't traverse a slope that is too steep and stay off the tractors when conditions are too wet. I have made lots of mistakes and will continue to do so but I don't blame the tractors for my stupidity.

Most tractors for small operations are sold with a fel from what I see today. The fel adds quite a bit of weight to the front end and this in turn can be used to gain increased traction if utilized with a 4x4 tractor. It isn't rocket science in that you have two load bearing axles that can vary their percentage of loading depending on how you use the tractor, being able to sum their tractive forces will give optimum results.

 

[TripleR]

I just went through the 2WD/4WD decision myself. I was able to get 4WD in the same type tractor for an additional $4,000. That's a big extra in my mind, but I felt I would be getting a more useful, safer, machine in the end, and it will also be easier to resell, if I ever need to.
If I couldn't have come up with the additional 4K, I would have bought the 2WD, and I'm sure it would have worked fine.
It's not that 2WD is bad, it's just that more often than not, 4WD is better. It's if the additional cost can be justified for your own situation/conditions.

Bill

Yes, conditions vary for sure. I had a 2WD on one of our hill farms for a few years and while it worked for some things, not others. Going front first down a steep slope even in dry conditions often left me skidding to the bottom, so I often had to back down which is not particularly easy. It got to be too nerve wracking and I took it out to our flat land farm.

My father in law bought a new Massey Ferguson 375 2WD with FEL when he retired and less than two months later traded it in on a new one with 4WD as he was constantly getting stuck and sliding down hills.

There are a lot of happy 2WD owners out there who are happy with theirs, sure can't second guess them and their experience, they are just not for me.

 

[ddb123]

I am not even a hobby farmer; I use my tractor to mow and maintain my property and for projects that come along. Really, everything I do with my tractor is "optional." No way would I want to go back to a 2wd tractor. The only way I would do it is if I absolutely could not afford one with 4wd. It makes SUCH a big difference in the power that gets to the ground. My 35 hp will out pull the 45 hp I traded in because of 4wd. If you have any slopes at all, you will find there are instances when, without even working the tractor hard, you will get in a jam with 2wd. I could not back uphill even with the FEL empty.

2wd = frequent frustration
4wd = more smiles

I will add that even with loaded rear tires and a 6' brush hog on the back, the times I have used the loader to its highest capability would have seen me sitting in one spot if I didn't have 4wd.

Last week I used my tractor -- and it had to be in 4wd -- to pull out my stuck 2wd pickup.

Simply put, 4wd is the greatest thing since power steering!

 

[Piston]

Seems like this thread is turning more and more into a "2wd vs 4 wd" argument. So hey, I might was well jump on the train.

A 4wd tractor is generally more capable. So, depending on what your doing (I can't say "always") you will get a more capable tractor in the same size if you get a 4wd.
There is a reason many implements have two ratings from the manufacturer regarding tractor size, one is for 2wd, and the other 4wd. The 4wd tractor will generally "work" the implement better, and stronger, than the less capable same model tractor with 2wd.

Lets get away from this "need" thing. In many cases a tractor itself isn't even "needed", let alone 4wd, and many of the other niceties our tractors come with these days.

The 4wd will be more useful than the 2wd, hands down, and will also have better resale.

I believe the op already stated he was going with 4wd?

 

[sd455dan]

Thanks for all the replies. I'm gonna go and check everything out. Used would be fine with me, especially if I get a more capable machine. A lot of varied opinions on the options. I know that I want HST. I don't want a cab. I'm not wanting to drive all over the SE looking at tractors. I want dealer support such that when I need service I want to pick up the phone and have the dealer come get it.

Some are wondering including myself, Did you have any luck checking out the tractors and dealerships or find and or buy a tractor if so what did you get???? Inquiring minds and all

 

[agsanders]

Haven't bought yet. I've checked out JD 3032, 4105, 5045d. Checked out some kubotas, though I can't remember model numbers. I'm gonna wait a bit and see what my tax damage is before I do anything. My tractor money may be going to that cesspool in Washington. I'm ok with buying a good used one if I could find it. I know I want a hst for sure after looking around.

 

[Notforhire]

I know I want a hst for sure after looking around.

That eliminates the 5045D. JD only offers a gear trans. in that model.

 

[dntfxr]

Comparing similar machines, the 4wd will generally have advantages over 2wd. However if money is part of the equation and used tractors are considered, you can get a whole lot more PTO hp in a 2wd than you can from a similarly priced 4wd. One example is my 2 tractors which cost about the same money. One is a 17hp b7100, the other is around 50hp 2040, paid around 4-4500 for each. I use both for different jobs, but for mowing the larger 2wd with a 6'cutter is the MUCH better tool. It just depends on what your needs will be.. I wish you the best in your search! Tractor buying and research is half the fun

 

[milkman636]

This thread is interesting to a guy like me with a 35hp 4WD cut and a 53hp 2WD utility both with loaders. The 5210 (2WD) has loaded r1s with wide front tires, and the ct335 (4WD) has loaded r4s. I would actually bet that my 5210 will go through deeper mud than my ct335 will. I've churned through some pretty deep mud with 2wd and ag tires, and my 5210 will lift and pull more. The purchase price for each tractor was within $200. The 5210 was purchased 1 year old with 100 hrs on it 13 years ago, and the CT335 was purchased new 2 years ago.

The tractors offer me different benefits. The 5210 filled all my needs for a decade and even worked well hauling firewood from the woods, but the 335 with the HST is far more maneuverable for working in close quarters and has faster cycle times with loader work. If I need to pull or lift a heavy load it's the 5210, if I am loading or clearing snow it's the 335. Both tractors have their place in my barn, and either one could work as my single tractor if necessary.

 

[agsanders]

Well, in case anyone is interested, I finally made it to the JD dealer and bought a tractor. I know the owner decently well, as he does business with me, so I thought I would return the favor. He happened to pull up at the same time that I did this morning so I dealt with him directly. I looked at several different models. I ended up getting a basic 3032. The 5 series is just too large. I thought about a 4105, but it's a pretty big difference in price. Plus, I figure the 3 series would be easier to fish out the pool than anything larger if my wife decides to take it for a spin. I'm getting a box blade, bush hog, and FEL. He gave me a really good price. No haggling at all. It will be delivered on Monday.

I'm pretty excited. He suggested sticking with the R1 tires since most of what I do will be in woods and it can get wet and muddy. I'm thinking about getting the tires filled, but haven't inquired about it yet. I'll probably spring for the Ihitch and the quick detach for the FEL. Anything else I should consider? Thanks for everyone's input. It's much appreciated.

 

[aczlan]

I would fill the tires and stay off the lawn when it is soggy... That's what we do with our L3830 (which has R1s and loaded rears) and our lawn looks decent (not that we have a golf course, but no noticeable tire tracks).

Aaron Z