Big box stores: Inferior tools?

[Bikewanderer]

we built our house 8 yrs. ago we bought all Price Phister brand fixtures from Home Depot at about a third of the cost from a plumbing supply house and we have not had one problem in those 8 yrs....I find it hard to believe big companies would compromise their brands that way.

Try to repair these faucets. You'll find out.

 

[Carl Bert]

SO ya'll are saying all the Porter Cable, DeWalts, Makita, Hitachi, Bosch, Bostitch, Ridgid, Milwaukee, Dremal, Husquavarna, May Tag, Jen Air, East Wing, American Standard, Kohler, are all garbage if you purchased them from Lowes, or HD. Model number for model number?

There are names I specifically left out such as GE, Black and Decker, and some mower brands, IMO they are poorly made no matter where you choose to buy them, and there is a reason,they are priced cheap....because they are.

Sorry,but I do not buy all the companies listed above would alter the quality of their products for a large volume contract. Perhaps they would make a Home Depot model, which you could not buy no where else? Is what ya'll mean?




Kholer, American standard,

Here is simple proof. Go buy a Kohler kitchen faucet at a plumbing supply house, then buy the EXACT same faucet at Home Depot (yes the HD item will have one or two additional numbers or letters in the model #) but it will look IDENTICAL. Take them both home and simply put them on a scale. There will be a significant difference in weight. If that doesn't say enough, than I don't know what to tell you. If your happy with the crap that these BB stores sell, then theres no reason to shop elsewhere.

I can give you a dozen more examples of proof, but really whats the point.

 

[aczlan]

Here is simple proof. Go buy a Kohler kitchen faucet at a plumbing supply house, then buy the EXACT same faucet at Home Depot (yes the HD item will have one or two additional numbers or letters in the model #) but it will look IDENTICAL. Take them both home and simply put them on a scale. There will be a significant difference in weight. If that doesn't say enough, than I don't know what to tell you. If your happy with the crap that these BB stores sell, then theres no reason to shop elsewhere.
I can give you a dozen more examples of proof, but really whats the point.

And there is the difference, the model number is slightly different... If you buy "Model number for model number" like Tollster said they will be the same.

Aaron Z

 

[Carl Bert]

And there is the difference, the model number is slightly different... If you buy "Model number for model number" like Tollster said they will be the same.

Aaron Z

Yes but the point of this thread is that Home Depot and other big box stores do not sell the same model number items as the plumbing supply stores do. They just look exactly the same, but poor quality.

It's not like, when you go into HD, that you are given a choice between good and poor quality items. Truth is, they are trying to make you think that you are buying the EXACT same item for less money.

Hey, just from reading this thread, it proves that they are doing a great job. As i said before, this is common knowledge to most anyone I have ever spoken to in the NYC area, obviously it doesn't hold true in the rest of the country.

 

[rtimgray]

I'm impressed that so many of you have access to plumbing supply houses and dedicated tool shops and the like. The only plumbing supply houses that I can find even remotely locally are about an hour away and open 8-4 M-F, so that pretty much cuts me out unless I'm taking a vacation day to shop for a faucet.

All of our faucets and fixtures came from either Lowes or HD when we built our house, and so far we've had -0- failures. I don't know if they'll last a lifetime or not, but I would say that when/if they fail, I'll probably replace them with units from Lowes/HD, because they are the ones that are open when I have time to go shopping.

I had a thread a few months ago about how pleased I have been with the products and customer service from HD and how disappointed I have been at the "mom-and-pop" shops that I've tried to do business with. We are currently building an addition onto our house, and most of the materials have come from either HD or Lowes, and it is based far more on customer service and hours of availability than it is on pricing.

FWIW, I am purchasing my siding from a local dealer, and it is cheaper and closer than Lowes or HD, and they guys there have been great to deal with. It is a 7:00-4:30 M-F place, but it's close by, so I can make in just before they close to pick my stuff up.

Just my take on it.

Good luck and take care.

 

[Geneha]

I was looking at ceiling fan speed controls. I looked at a mom and pop shop and looked at HD. Yes they where from different manufactures, and the same price. So I decided to purchase from mom and pop to help them in this economy. Within a couple of months the unit failed. So took it back. I simple wanted a replacement. They wanted to test and test it. They said I hooked it up wrong and came up with more excuses about why it failed. It took them a while but finally replaced it. I have another one in another room. It was installed the same time. I have one from HD that has been in the house for years and has never failed. The mom and pop was very very cheap china junk (not saying HD is not china made) and since they fussed and squawked about it I will never every step in their door again and will tell others not to either. HD has never ever given return issues.

 

[k0ua]

I didn't do any research I just took him at his word. I don't own a deere riding mower



I did however find this John Deere Mowers | Should You Buy From Big Box Stores? info about the quality of JD mowers sold at the box stores

well now that was a misleading article.. who in he** would compare an X300 with an LA105? I say an LA105 from HD and an LA105 from a JD dealer are one and the same mower. HD does not sell X300 mowers. I bought an LA135se from a JD dealer, but the same thing was available at the box stores nearby.
I bought from the JD dealer because he was handy and the price was nearly the same. Yes there are different models of some products in big box stores , made just for them as cost cutting measures, so what? But if you compare the exact same plumbing fixture in a big box store and the exact same fixture in a plumbing store, they are the same thing. The only difference is the price. To say that tools in a big box store are junk is just Junk! Sure there are different lower cost models, sometimes used as loss leaders to get you in the store, but if you compare the exact model to the exact model they are the SAME.

John Deere 100 series mowers are apparently made in Greeneville TN.

John Deere Shows Off 'Made In Greeneville' Mowers - The Greeneville Sun

James K0UA

 

[dmccarty]

I was looking at ceiling fan speed controls. ....

When I bought the city house, it needs some replacement lights and ceiling fans would have been nice. I decided to just skip the ceiling fans for a variety of reasons. Mainly installation was going to be a PITA and the models at the mom and pop stores did where EXPENSIVE and not at all what I wanted.

I ended up buying new lights for the kitchen. The 20 year old lights were right out of the 70s and the plastic had discolored over the years. I bought the replacement lights from a mom and pop store on sale but they were still expensive. They also used a special halogen bulb. Special is another work for expensive. :shocked: The problem with these lights is that they did not have adequate ventilation and the bulbs would heat up and burn out within 3-6 months! The bulbs were also a PITA to change. Did I mention the bulbs were expensive? Of course the fixture was made in China.

Well, a couple of years after buying from the mom and pop store, the exact same fixtures were at HD. For MUCH less money.

When we moved out of the city, we designed our current house. We used recessed light fixtures and we did put in ceiling fans from HD. They fans have worked just fine for years. We use CFL bulbs in the recessed fixtures. The HD bulbs lasted their specified lifetimes. A Lowes opened up closer to the house and as the CFLs burned out, we bought from Lowes. The Lowes CFLs are/were scat. I stopped buying them because they would burn out after 3-6 months. It got the point that I would write the install/buy date on the bulb, keep the receipt and take them back to Lowes would they burned out. They always took them back too. Eventually Lowes started carrying GE R30/R40 bulbs so that is what I buy know and the CFLs last like they should.

We also bought Maytag from local dealers over the years. Well, I just pulled out the seven year old Maytag dishwasher and replaced it with a Bosch. We have had problems with two Maytag dishwashers over the last 15 years and our Maytag fridge had major problems just before the warranty ran out. I don't know how long the Bosch will last but danged if the design aint done right. Much better than the Maytag. The thing is much easier to install than the Maytag we had. There are just certain things they did that are RIGHT. Key question is how long will it work?

I got the dishwasher installed at 9:00pm last night we ran three loads already. The first Maytag we bought failed after the first wash. The Maytag dishwasher we just replaced failed before the first week was over....

Some things are just scat no matter where one buys them.

Later,
Dan

 

[IkeRoberts]

Years ago, I worked in the service department of Sears. I ordered all the parts for customers. The film machines I used had sears part numbers but the parts came from major manufacturers. For example the sears washers were produced by Maytag. All the repair parts had sears numbers but were maytag parts. Paint is another. There are only 6 paint manufacturers in the US but how many brand names can you think of? Same paint just a different name.

 

[k0ua]

Talking about the HD or Lowes JD mowers, there is a major difference. Most every JD mower at the big box store comes with a Briggs and Stratton engine. If you buy a JD mower from a dealer, chances are the mower will have a commercial Kawasaki engine in it. I support my local dealer anytime I can. Why drive past my dealership to go to a big box store to buy the same type of product for the same price as what my dealer will sell it to me for? When my product needs warranty service, I can take it to my local dealership for service. Try taking your big box store mower to your local dealership for warranty service. They probably won't touch it and they will tell you to take it back to where you bought it from for service. Ever asked anyone at a Lowes or Home Depot a technical question about a warranty issue for a mower? I mean, lets face it, Lowes has a "fashion plumbing" section.

As far as power tools, yes, Home Depot and Lowes may sell a cosmetically identical product, but open the power tool up and see what the guts of it are made of. The big box store will most likely have plastic or nylon gears and plastic bushings. Buy a cosmetically identical power tool from a reputable tool dealer and open it up. You will find steel gears and beefed up bearings and bushings. You get what you pay for.

So why does my JD LA135se bought from the JD dealer in Harrison Ar. have a Briggs engine in it, same as the ones at Lowes?

 

[EddieWalker]

I doubt that I use my tools as hard as some of you guys do, or that I spend as much time building stuff as some of you, so my opinion is just based on my experiences. I buy tools and materials from Home Depot, Lowes and McCoys. I also go to three plumbing suppliers and two electrical suppliers for guys in the trades. I friends with some of the guys who work at the stores, and think they are pretty upfront with me. If they know of a better deal or product, they let me know where to go. They don't get that sale from me, but they get my business long term trust.

My first question is what brand of tools are you buying? and where are you supposedly getting a better version of that tool? With power tools, I'm a huge Makita fan, but also like Bosch. I try other brands from time to time, and usually know that when buying it, I'm wasting my money long term, but I need it right away to get something done and it should work long enough for that. DeWalt is a brand that has everything, anywhere you go. It doesn't last very long, but it's affordable and for a little bit, does a good job.

So if I wanted to buy a circular saw, and I like Bosch or Makita, where would I go to get a better version then what they sell at Home Depot or Lowes?

Another example is the new Hitachi framing gun that I bought last week. I looked online, read tons of reviews and went for this model at Lowes. Nowhere did I see it cheaper online, and of the three box stores that I shop at, Lowes had the best price. If it fails on me, I know that I can return it for what I paid for it without any hassle at Lowes. What could be better then that?

As for faucets coming from a supplier over the box store being better, I say that's BS. Moen, Kohler, PF, Delta and whatever big name brand out there are all making disposable junk with fancy finishes that you pay more for. They mass produce them in other countries and have people to call 24/7 to get replacements that fail out of the package. It's happened enough times for me to be almost common. The only difference you get at teh supply house is the guy selling it to you knows it's junk, and the guy at Home Depot telling you it's quality.

I've never come across a mom and pop store that failed because of the box store opening up. In every case, they fail because of poor service and bad attitudes. The ones that are doing well are doing so because of the service they provide.

Eddie

 

[smilingreen]

I worked as a field service engineer for automation assembly line companies for years. Assembly lines are now made to run different parts. There is no retooling involved any more on vibratory hopper, feeders and sorters or the line. Usually it is just a flip of a switch. Gone are the days when a new product line required all the old lines to be torn out and new lines installed to run a different product, unless it is a automotive assembly line and they are introducing a brand new model.

A case of a power tool will basically be the same, regardless of whether it is the big box store model or a professional tool seller model. It is the internal parts that are made with different materials. Take for instance: Motor windings. Enameled motor wire. You can have a armature with a thinner coating of enamel on the windings. It still works with that thinner coating of enamel. But, use that motor every day for a little while, or really torque that motor out and see how long before the armature burns out in comparison to the same sized armature that has a thicker coating of enamel on the windings. The higher quality armature with the better grade wire is still physically the same size as the cheaper one and it fits into the case perfectly. Motor brush holders are a way to cheapen the cost of the tool, also. A plastic brush holder vs a metal brush holder. Bearings and bushings are the same way: The cheap bearings and bushings are the exact same size as the more expensive ones, so they will fit perfectly into the case. Same thing with gears. Nylon vs steel. All still the same dimensions, just a big difference in quality, wear and long term performance. Beauty is only skin deep. It is what is on the inside that counts. You still get what you pay for.

 

[smilingreen]

"So why does my JD LA135se bought from the JD dealer in Harrison Ar. have a Briggs engine in it, same as the ones at Lowes?"


Cause in this economy, John Deere has been forced to compete with the junk that the big box stores are now selling. Believe me, the local dealer who has been in business for years selling quality products doesn't like having the cheap model on his show room floor, it is dictated to him by John Deere themselves which models the store gets and what models will be pushed based off of marketing data for a certain regional area. If you travel any, you will notice some John Deere dealerships don't carry the same products as another John Deere dealership does 40 miles down the road. What products the dealership is allowed to sell is dictated by John Deere and their marketing data. Weird, eh?

 

[Carl Bert]

Yes there are different models of some products in big box stores , made just for them as cost cutting measures, so what? But if you compare the exact same plumbing fixture in a big box store and the exact same fixture in a plumbing store, they are the same thing. The only difference is the price. To say that tools in a big box store are junk is just Junk! Sure there are different lower cost models, sometimes used as loss leaders to get you in the store, but if you compare the exact model to the exact model they are the SAME.

John Deere 100 series mowers are apparently made in Greeneville TN.

John Deere Shows Off 'Made In Greeneville' Mowers - The Greeneville Sun

James K0UA

That statement could not possibly be more incorrect. The thing I am shocked about, is how many people are unaware of this fact. This is not a big secret, as I said before its common knowledge.

Truth is, even knowing this, I shop at Lowes and HD all the time. Some things I will buy and some I won't. As Geneha had said, the return policy cant be beat. So if it is something that is easily replaced, even though I know its not of the same quality, who cares I can always return it.

An example of something that I would not buy, would be a hot water heater. If that goes bad, now I would be paying an additional plumbing bill as well. So in other words, if its going to cost me money or time to replace an item, it won't be purchased at a BB store. If not, then why not.

 

[Pops15]

I doubt that I use my tools as hard as some of you guys do, or that I spend as much time building stuff as some of you, so my opinion is just based on my experiences. I buy tools and materials from Home Depot, Lowes and McCoys. I also go to three plumbing suppliers and two electrical suppliers for guys in the trades. I friends with some of the guys who work at the stores, and think they are pretty upfront with me. If they know of a better deal or product, they let me know where to go. They don't get that sale from me, but they get my business long term trust.

My first question is what brand of tools are you buying? and where are you supposedly getting a better version of that tool? With power tools, I'm a huge Makita fan, but also like Bosch. I try other brands from time to time, and usually know that when buying it, I'm wasting my money long term, but I need it right away to get something done and it should work long enough for that. DeWalt is a brand that has everything, anywhere you go. It doesn't last very long, but it's affordable and for a little bit, does a good job.

So if I wanted to buy a circular saw, and I like Bosch or Makita, where would I go to get a better version then what they sell at Home Depot or Lowes?

Another example is the new Hitachi framing gun that I bought last week. I looked online, read tons of reviews and went for this model at Lowes. Nowhere did I see it cheaper online, and of the three box stores that I shop at, Lowes had the best price. If it fails on me, I know that I can return it for what I paid for it without any hassle at Lowes. What could be better then that?

As for faucets coming from a supplier over the box store being better, I say that's BS. Moen, Kohler, PF, Delta and whatever big name brand out there are all making disposable junk with fancy finishes that you pay more for. They mass produce them in other countries and have people to call 24/7 to get replacements that fail out of the package. It's happened enough times for me to be almost common. The only difference you get at teh supply house is the guy selling it to you knows it's junk, and the guy at Home Depot telling you it's quality.

I've never come across a mom and pop store that failed because of the box store opening up. In every case, they fail because of poor service and bad attitudes. The ones that are doing well are doing so because of the service they provide.

Eddie

I'm not buying many tools any more. The majority of my power tools are Milwaukee. The oldest being a sawzall I bought in 1978 and the newest being a 10 1/4" circular saw that's probably close to ten years old. Of the 17 or so Milwaukee power tools I own one has failed. I think three more have needed new switches or cords over the years. Since I'm a contractor these are all worked, they're not for show.
I've heard that Milwaukee's quality has gone down in recent years but I don't have any first hand knowledge of that.

Makita is a rare example of a company that makes a better product now than they did in the past.
Bosch is another that makes a quality product.

Believe it or not, some manufacturers make a cheaper product for the box stores. I have seen it first hand. Plus I have family members that are/were in management with box stores and a manufacturer that have verified this.

The box stores have made it hard for the mom & pop shops but the ones they've really hurt are the regional chains.

 

[Code54]

When I was reading everything in this thread about how the plumbing stuff does not last as long, I had to smile. Heck, in our house, my wife is going to want me to remodel the bathroom or update the sink in 8 or 10 years anyway so if it lasts that long I guess we are good with it. Also we always go to Home Depot because it is close and open when I am not working and so far I have never had any issues with any of fixtures we got there. I added a bathroom for our kids (when they were 5, now they are 12) and even that has held up great and I am sure they are harder on stuff than most adults.....

 

[Natureboy]

Truth. Companies like home depot pull a Walmart and dictate the prices to the tool companies. So they are forced to build a cheaper model to recover a profit. That is why I refuse to shop at box stores.

Would not buy a high $ item at a box store, I agree that they are not made to the same standard. Case in point, I bought a Husqvarna lawn tractor from a Husqvarna dealer. Used it once, both front tires were flat when I went to use it the second time. Dealer tubed both tires-no charge. After about 30 hours, the transmission bolts broke-dealer picked it up, repaired with grade 8 bolts (Husq. used grade 2's), delivered it back to me-no charge. What do you think would have happened if I had bought it at Lowes or TSC? SOL!

 

[EddieWalker]

For you guys that don't buy your tools at the box stores, where do you go?

Eddie