Looking for input on trailer choices

[nittanyjd]

You nailed it! I bought a dovetail 18' footer with the fold up ramps. I wish I had purchased the 20' flat deck with slide in ramps. The fold up ramps just get in the way.

I'm in the process of looking for a trailer. Currently rent and getting costly. I'm done looking for used, too. The dove tail vs flat and 18' vs 20' are my issues. Attachment shows a 16', fold-up ramps, and dove tail. It drags if I don't angle when leaving driveway or pulling off road into camp lawn. 20' flat deck and slide in ramps seem the way to go so long as the weight isn't too high. My tractor and brush hog are 4500# so I'm looking at 10k. I just have to decide how often I'll have the brush hog and tractor on together.

 

[meburdick]

It drags if I don't angle when leaving driveway or pulling off road into camp lawn.

My mind isn't following this... What drags? The tail?

For me, the tail isn't something I'm concerned about any more. The bottom of the frame rails are 24" off of the ground. The tail drops down a few inches from there, but it isn't "significant".

Your 16' trailer likely has about 80" from the center point (front to back) of the two axles and a 20' will only be about 4" more. The good news there is that it wouldn't make the tail much more likely to drag that a shorter trailer. The bad news is that it still doesn't give you a lot of actual room behind the tractor for something like a bush hog if you load facing forward. Personally, looking at your setup, I wouldn't load that tractor backward on that trailer because it puts most of the weight over the *front* axle of the trailer, and you want it over the back one. For my tractor, I can't load backward at all because I have the FEL (and all of the weight would end up on the tongue).

I would take a very close look at how much clearance to the ramps you have right now with the fold-downs and the tail on that trailer. Unless the clearance is pretty substantial, I would be careful about switching to a flat deck because it will likely change the loading angle (unless you get very long ramps - and it looks like your fold-downs are 5').

 

[s219]

That loading doesn't look too bad to me, but it really varies tractor to tractor. If anything, I would have rolled the tractor even more forward on the trailer, but maybe there wasn't enough room. When I looked at working out tongue weight and balancing, most handbooks assume the tractor center of mass is just forward of the rear wheels. Ideally, you'd want to have that (or the real center of mass) evenly positioned over both axles. Implements will skew the overall center of mass in the direction of the implement, and how you lower or block implements will factor in. Where they touch the deck (or not) impacts how they affect the balance of the whole load. This definitely matters with long implements.

 

[meburdick]

That loading doesn't look too bad to me, but it really varies tractor to tractor. If anything, I would have rolled the tractor even more forward on the trailer, but maybe there wasn't enough room. When I looked at working out tongue weight and balancing, most handbooks assume the tractor center of mass is just forward of the rear wheels. Ideally, you'd want to have that (or the real center of mass) evenly positioned over both axles. Implements will skew the overall center of mass in the direction of the implement, and how you lower or block implements will factor in. Where they touch the deck (or not) impacts how they affect the balance of the whole load. This definitely matters with long implements.

All very good things to consider when loading. For me, I need to load facing forward (FEL, Ballast Box on rear) and position the rears slightly ahead of the rear axle (weight distribution from FEL up front and having filled rears).

 

[nittanyjd]

My mind isn't following this... What drags? The tail?.

Yes, the tail of trailer drags, but common sense and keeping an eye on it and I'm fine.

I had to load backwards to balance load and to keep brush hog connected. Loaded frontwards and keeping the brush hog connected and then moving both forward enough to be able to fold up ramps I had way, way, way to much weight on the truck. Good case for slide in ramps.

It handled very smooth loaded like this even though the tractor is turned around from the preferred you couldn't hardly feel the load back there.

Believe me I worked with it for an hour to get it safely loaded since I was travelling 125 miles.

Thanks for the good points on ramps and flat deck.

I've noticed in looking at some trailers that axles are positioned different (more forward) between car haulers and equipment trailers.

 

[meburdick]

I had to load backwards to balance load and to keep brush hog connected. Loaded frontwards and keeping the brush hog connected and then moving both forward enough to be able to fold up ramps I had way, way, way to much weight on the truck. Good case for slide in ramps.

I follow the process here, and it makes sense. I don't see how having sliding ramps would have helped you really, as the brush hog would have been hanging off of the back of the trailer. While you could hang a flag or something for safety, that leaves a fair portion of it completely unsupported.

I've noticed in looking at some trailers that axles are positioned different (more forward) between car haulers and equipment trailers.

You may want to look around to see which manufacturers could do a more custom placement of the axles for you, moving them forward by 12" or so. You'd have to be more careful of the back end scraping (which I'm sure is at least partially why the axles are where they are) if you move them forward, but it might better suit your intended use.

 

[CompactTractorFan]

Now, I just need to decide if I want to go the pintle hitch route or a 2-5/16 ball. I've been leaning toward the ball mount style up until tonight. A sincere lack of quality ball mounts that can handle a 10k trailer is making me think I will be better off with the pintle hitch. I am amazed at just how many mounts are rated for nothing more than 6k Gross Trailer Weight.

That's because most tow vehicle require a WD hitch for loads over 5k-6k...:thumbsup:

 

[Diamondpilot]

I'm in the process of looking for a trailer. Currently rent and getting costly. I'm done looking for used, too. The dove tail vs flat and 18' vs 20' are my issues. Attachment shows a 16', fold-up ramps, and dove tail. It drags if I don't angle when leaving driveway or pulling off road into camp lawn. 20' flat deck and slide in ramps seem the way to go so long as the weight isn't too high. My tractor and brush hog are 4500# so I'm looking at 10k. I just have to decide how often I'll have the brush hog and tractor on together.

View attachment 272190

You have answered all your own questions. Like I said before I am on my third trailer and for what you gain the DT and fold up ramps are not worth it to me. I think 20' flat and slide in ramps are the only way to go for you. Just make sure your axles are placed so the rear hang over is not so great that you have the dragging issues with it also.

Chris

 

[Diamondpilot]

All very good things to consider when loading. For me, I need to load facing forward (FEL, Ballast Box on rear) and position the rears slightly ahead of the rear axle (weight distribution from FEL up front and having filled rears).

It all varies load to load. My 28HP Jinma like to go on backward if its just the tractor or tractor and weight box. If I have a Bush Hog or something more significant on the the rear it must be pulled on forward.

My tractor with loader and loaded rear tires, 4 front weights, and cast rear weights is 5,600#. Tractor alone is 3,008#, FEL 850#, 4 33# front weights, 2 100# cast rear weights, and then the fluid in the tires.

Chris

 

[meburdick]

That's because most tow vehicle require a WD hitch for loads over 5k-6k...:thumbsup:

Is that because of the max tongue weight that the vehicle can support? At 6k trailer weight, the tongue would be about 500-600 (taking 10% or so of the cargo weight). I know that previous vehicles have max'ed out at about 500 lbs tongue weight, but my Tundra will take double that.

 

[joshuabardwell]

Is that because of the max tongue weight that the vehicle can support? At 6k trailer weight, the tongue would be about 500-600 (taking 10% or so of the cargo weight). I know that previous vehicles have max'ed out at about 500 lbs tongue weight, but my Tundra will take double that.

Yup. That's why. I was recently shocked to learn that my Ram 2500 could only handle up to 350 lbs tongue weight without a WD system. It all depends on the receiver's rating.

 

[meburdick]

The max trailer rating for my Tundra (CrewMax Limited) is 9k. There isn't really a max tongue weight per se, but I do have to stay within the cargo limits. So, the truth is that my limit is probably somewhere around 1000 lbs.

I'm seriously considering a Sherline scale to actively measure the tongue weight for each load, and may even get a weight distributing hitch as well (depending on how she tows without one).

 

[joshuabardwell]

I have never seen a receiver hitch that didn't have both a gross trailer weight rating, and a max tongue weight rating. The tongue weight is basically always 10% of the gross trailer weight rating. If your trailer is limited to 9k, your tongue rating is probably 900 lbs. You should check your owner's manual to be sure that you're not required to have a weight-distributing system to achieve maximum tow rating.

 

[jeffsw6]

Yup. That's why. I was recently shocked to learn that my Ram 2500 could only handle up to 350 lbs tongue weight without a WD system. It all depends on the receiver's rating.

You could replace the receiver. My 97 Ram 2500 didn't even have a rating stamp/sticker on the factory receiver anymore when I got it, and I could not determine its rating, so I replaced it with a Curt 15K / 1500 TW. I think it cost around $200 or $250 and it did take me and a buddy most of an afternoon to install it, but mostly due to some aftermarket exhaust mounts, I had to figure out what to do.

If I had to do that again I would use my brain a little and use some jack stands and big zip ties to help hold the receiver up while bolting it to the frame. My arms were pretty **** tired by the time that job was done.

 

[bcp]

I wonder why these trailers aren't made with a bolt-on sliding axle subassembly, like some boat trailers are made. Sometimes moving the axles forward or back a foot would make much better balancing.

Single axle example:
View attachment 272265

Double:
Center lift pontoon boat trailers

Bruce

 

[meburdick]

I have never seen a receiver hitch that didn't have both a gross trailer weight rating, and a max tongue weight rating. The tongue weight is basically always 10% of the gross trailer weight rating. If your trailer is limited to 9k, your tongue rating is probably 900 lbs. You should check your owner's manual to be sure that you're not required to have a weight-distributing system to achieve maximum tow rating.

The limits I stated are based on how my truck is equipped and have nothing to do with the actual hitch ratings. with a different set of options, my truck (nwhich is the limiting factor, not my hitch) is rated to tow 10,400.

I do need to look more to know what the exact specs are, but I've read a lot of Tundra threads where people are towing travel trailers with these trucks and not using a WDH.

 

[meburdick]

You could replace the receiver. My 97 Ram 2500 didn't even have a rating stamp/sticker on the factory receiver anymore when I got it, and I could not determine its rating, so I replaced it with a Curt 15K / 1500 TW. I think it cost around $200 or $250 and it did take me and a buddy most of an afternoon to install it, but mostly due to some aftermarket exhaust mounts, I had to figure out what to do.

If I had to do that again I would use my brain a little and use some jack stands and big zip ties to help hold the receiver up while bolting it to the frame. My arms were pretty **** tired by the time that job was done.

Doubt it. Receiver is integrated into the truck frame.

 

[Diamondpilot]

Doubt it. Receiver is integrated into the truck frame.

I have never seen a hitch that was not bolted on. Look again.

Chris

 

[meburdick]

I have never seen a hitch that was not bolted on. Look again.

Chris

Looks like it's time for you to take a trip to the local Toyota dealer to see it in person, then. This is NOT a bolt-on hitch. Here's pages 7 and 8 from the Toyota eBrochure for 2012 (which is just about identical to the information published for 2011, and my truck is a 2011). This is the second generation Tundra and has been in production since 2007, so the design has been around for a number of years.

 

[Diamondpilot]

Looks like it's time for you to take a trip to the local Toyota dealer to see it in person, then. This is NOT a bolt-on hitch. Here's pages 7 and 8 from the Toyota eBrochure for 2012 (which is just about identical to the information published for 2011, and my truck is a 2011). This is the second generation Tundra and has been in production since 2007, so the design has been around for a number of years.

View attachment 272273View attachment 272274

Looks bolted on to me.

The reason Toyota boast about the hitch being part of the frame is because it is. There is no rear cross member like other trucks. Not knocking Toyota, I drive a Nissan Titan 90% of the time and also have a F-350 Diesel. I love my Titan and feel its one of the better trucks on the road in the 1/2 ton segment. I looked hard at the Tundra back in 08 when buying but the rear frame was a concern to me since my job is towing.

Chris