Ballast almost flipped the tractor, really need some help!

[Artisan]

Hmmm, lets see here.

We have a JD 4105 tractor w/ a 300CX FEL.

The stock bucket weighs 207 pounds.

The OP says his aftermarket bucket weighs 300 kilogram = 661.5 pounds.

Here are the specs for the tractor. HERE are the specs for the FEL.

The lifting capacity at full height measured at 500 mm ahead of pivot is 1005 pounds.

1005 minus 661.5 = 343.5 Pounds MAX you are allowed to put in that bucket.
Did your salesman TELL YOU that you can only load up 343.5 (and lift high)
pounds into that bucket? HE NEEDS TO BE FIRED IMO. He almost killed you
IMO BUT you are definitely partly to blame, lesson learned , we are ALL
GLAD YOUR OK.

Would you have bought that bucket if you were told ahead of time that
little more than 3- 100Lb sacks of cement are alls your tractor will lift,
SAFELY? ? ?


My little BX25 I believe has a lift capacity of something like 625 w/ stock bucket.

IMHO, your dealer took the money w/o discussing the ramifications of the
weight to HP ratios and left you w/ a flipped tractor, BUT, You positively
were in err by carrying so much weight so high especially for the conditions.

EVERY tractor owner needs a good scare, hopefully you LEARN and will
sit down and LEARN more before you decide to play w/ weight and
gravity. DEADLY combo it can be.

I weigh 225 pounds, 343.5-225= 118.5 So my body and a lil over
a sack of cement is alls your suppose to load that bucket with .

I AM NOT A PRO, TAKE ALL MY INPUT w/ SEVERAL GRAINS OF SALT
and can a pro recrunch my numbers for this gent please?

GLAD your OK, CARRY your loads LOW, ALWAYS!

 

[Bob77064]

Glad that you are ok.

 

[Loudo]

Gudday Thinggy, You are lucky mate, you've had your first brown trouser moment:laughing: and I know it won't be your last.It surprises me that your dealer did not ballast the rear tyres as part of the pre-delivery. When I was with MF we had to ballast the rear tyres even without a loader. As others have said you had your loader too high and that ripper is not heavy enough, so that's my 2c worth. Also welcome to TBN. Loudo.

 

[lilranch2001]

Hmmm, lets see here.

We have a JD 4105 tractor w/ a 300CX FEL.

The stock bucket weighs 207 pounds.

The OP says his aftermarket bucket weighs 300 kilogram = 661.5 pounds.

Here are the specs for the tractor. HERE are the specs for the FEL.

The lifting capacity at full height measured at 500 mm ahead of pivot is 1005 pounds.

1005 minus 661.5 = 343.5 Pounds MAX you are allowed to put in that bucket.
Did your salesman TELL YOU that you can only load up 343.5 (and lift high)
pounds into that bucket? HE NEEDS TO BE FIRED IMO. He almost killed you
IMO BUT you are definitely partly to blame, lesson learned , we are ALL
GLAD YOUR OK.

Would you have bought that bucket if you were told ahead of time that
little more than 3- 100Lb sacks of cement are alls your tractor will lift,
SAFELY? ? ?


My little BX25 I believe has a lift capacity of something like 625 w/ stock bucket.

IMHO, your dealer took the money w/o discussing the ramifications of the
weight to HP ratios and left you w/ a flipped tractor, BUT, You positively
were in err by carrying so much weight so high especially for the conditions.

EVERY tractor owner needs a good scare, hopefully you LEARN and will
sit down and LEARN more before you decide to play w/ weight and
gravity. DEADLY combo it can be.

I weigh 225 pounds, 343.5-225= 118.5 So my body and a lil over
a sack of cement is alls your suppose to load that bucket with .

I AM NOT A PRO, TAKE ALL MY INPUT w/ SEVERAL GRAINS OF SALT
and can a pro recrunch my numbers for this gent please?

GLAD your OK, CARRY your loads LOW, ALWAYS!

Great minds think alike Artisan!
:thumbsup:

 

[SPYDERLK]

A bit surprising that the dealer didn't suggest loaded tires and carrying an implement (at least for ballast), if he was familiar with your terrain and experience.

Live customers tend to generate repeat business.

As a comparison, the bucket on my TN70a is 610kg.

A 1300 pound bucket is extremely rare on a tractor.
larry

 

[tcartwri]

From the manual;

OMW54458


Required Minimum Tractor Ballast?00CX Loader

CAUTION: To help prevent the possibility of personal injury or death caused by tractor/loader roll over, DO NOT operate tractor/loader unless it is equipped with proper ballast.

The amount of ballast listed in the chart is the minimum required for normal loader operation. For some operations, additional ballast may be required to maximize stability.

IMPORTANT: When adding ballast, do not exceed maximum tire carrying capacity shown on sidewall.

REQUIRED MINIMUM BALLAST FOR 4105 TRACTOR
Ballast1
Tire Size
Number of Rear Wheel Weights Required per Wheel
Fluid-filled rear tires and 500 kg (1100 lb) of 3-Point hitch ballast2 and Rear wheel weights per wheel:
14.9-24, 4PR (R1) 2
17.5L-24, 8PR (R4) 1

 

[Artisan]

Great minds think alike Artisan!
:thumbsup:

Did I save you 7-800 keystrokes?

This really tics me off. The days of educated salesmen are GONE, once they
have been w/ the company for so long they are deemed too expensive
or let go due to selling off the company and the new owner deleting
all the expensive SMART people in favor of dumb and UNKNOWLEDGEABLE
youngters. Everywhere I go the sales peopel are kids, WHY? BECAUSE
THEY ARE CHEAP TO HIRE. It is SO WORNG on SO MANY LEVELS.

 

[schweizer]

Everyone has mentioned ballast, including filled tires ("tyres" for the Aussie), but I think it should be emphasized again that 4WD is excellent preventive measure for accidents when using a FEL. Like someone else mentioned, most tractors don't have front brakes. In 2WD, when the back gets a little light you could go careening down a hill. I often skid down our gravel road to the barn in 2wd, but not in 4wd.

Also, often practice in your mind dropping the FEL quickly if you run into trouble. Dig the FEL bucket into the ground to stop and prevent what happened in your pics.

My backhoe is excellent ballast, but I find the box scraper to be too light. I found out the hard way when driving down a hill with a load of lumber on my pallet forks just a few days ago. I had to drop the load in the road to keep from tipping over. I'd rather pick up the lumber by hand than be upside down. The box blade just wasn't heavy enough.

Anyway, we're glad you're OK, and welcome to TBN.

Marcus

 

[Loudo]

This really tics me off. The days of educated salesmen are GONE, once they
have been w/ the company for so long they are deemed too expensive
or let go due to selling off the company and the new owner deleting
all the expensive SMART people in favor of dumb and UNKNOWLEDGEABLE
youngters. Everywhere I go the sales peopel are kids, WHY? BECAUSE
THEY ARE CHEAP TO HIRE. It is SO WORNG on SO MANY LEVELS.[/QUOTE]

Sir ,you are sooo right unfortunately and it's not only machinery, also what has happened to good old fashioned service??? I recently spent 20 minutes waiting for one of these non assistants,eventually walked out in disgust Loudo.

 

[k0ua]

Yes it was bad that the salesperson let the rig go with a heavy bucket and no ballast box and no loaded tires. Looks like my estimation of 750 to 1000 and loaded tires was a little light with JD manual calling for loaded tires, AND 1100 lbs on the 3pt AND 1 set of rear wheel weights for the R4 tires.. And this poor guy had none of the above. Oh well, live and learn.

James K0UA

 

[tcartwri]

Yes it was bad that the salesperson let the rig go with a heavy bucket and no ballast box and no loaded tires. Looks like my estimation of 750 to 1000 and loaded tires was a little light with JD manual calling for loaded tires, AND 1100 lbs on the 3pt AND 1 set of rear wheel weights for the R4 tires.. And this poor guy had none of the above. Oh well, live and learn.

James K0UA

I think the manuals numbers are actually overkill. My ballast is only about 650 lbs and that is about half of Bobcats recommended number. But then again I'm on flat ground. I know if I had the OP's bucket and no ballast, I would be hanging the rear tires in the air going over minor dips.

 

[lilranch2001]

I think the manuals numbers are actually overkill. My ballast is only about 650 lbs and that is about half of Bobcats recommended number. But then again I'm on flat ground. I know if I had the OP's bucket and no ballast, I would be hanging the rear tires in the air going over minor dips.

Do not forget, the OP had an extremely heavy bucket on his FEL arms as well!

 

[mdelmarcelle]

Good luck with getting things set up correctly. I think it's as simple as everyone suggested, add ballast. I have a Kubota M7040, which is a little bigger than your tractor. But, I have cast iron wheels on the back of mine, kind of equivalent to wheel weights. Even with that, it's not very stable when using the FEL. I actually wouldn't even use the FEL with just that anyway, because there's too much stress on the front axle. So, I built a concrete ballast block (similar to the one in an earlier post). The one I built weighs a little over 2000lbs. Once that's on the tractor, she's very stable. And I have no concerns about being able to get up a hill. Weight carried on a tractor gives it much more traction and it doesn't really seem to slow it down, even when going up hill.

I also agree with what others have suggested and look to get a different bucket. As others have said, the dealer probably shouldn't have even sold the tractor with that bucket. I think you'd have a leg to stand on to go back and demand an exchange of the bucket for a smaller 4-1 or a regular buck, which would weigh much less.

 

[AGGIE00]

Why didn't you just lower the fel and set her back down immediately. Ballast is a must for fel work. I have loaded tires, 4 cast wheel weights and use my 1600 pound mx8 mower for ballast. Without the mower my bucket stays inches off the ground as I work because of stability.

 

[jshwhite]

Why didn't you just lower the fel and set her back down immediately.

I couldn't agree more, however, in the OP's defense, if you're not experienced with that feeling of the rear end getting light it can happen so fast that you don't know how to react. Good reaction has to be second nature, and that comes with experience.

 

[vtsnowedin]

Everyone has mentioned ballast, including filled tires ("tyres" for the Aussie), but I think it should be emphasized again that 4WD is excellent preventive measure for accidents when using a FEL. ....
.... Marcus

I have to strongly disagree with Marcus. Having 4WD is not an equal substitute to having loaded tires and adequate wheel weights and or ballast box when working with a loader. The 4WD helps of course and is better then a 2WD tractor with air filled tires but doesn't get you to the level of reasonable safety that can be had just by adding a few hundred dollars in Rim guard and a half barrel of concrete on the 3PH. If you understand the math you will have the tires filled before you sit in the seat and we should not misdirect any newby here into a dangerous situation where he sits in a seat we would not want to sit in.

 

[moored4]

The only thing that I would suggest that the others have not, was to widen you tires but after looking at your pictures it looks like they are welded rims and cannot be adjusted! Is the rear axel itself adjustable any?

Man! That is scary! Glad youæ±*e alright!

 

[Kioti Tom]

I have been on 3 wheels twice in 2 days. Got a weight box on ebay that handles 1000 lbs and put 600 lbs of farmall model A weights in it (4 ea) and then filled the spaces with gravel. With the 153 lbs for the box, I figure I have about 900 lbs and what a difference that made. The loader specs recommended 700 lbs.
You really need a weight box or a heavy implement on back.

Good luck
Tom

 

[tcartwri]

Why didn't you just lower the fel and set her back down immediately. Ballast is a must for fel work. I have loaded tires, 4 cast wheel weights and use my 1600 pound mx8 mower for ballast. Without the mower my bucket stays inches off the ground as I work because of stability.

Ah yes, but he wasn't lifting anything with the loader. He just didn't appreciate how heavy that clamshell was. I run around all the time with an empty loader and no ballast.