Learning how

[Iplayfarmer]

Thanks for the thoughts, K0UA.

I will definitely want to be able to do things like: repair a crack in the bucket of myloader, make a hitch "add-on" for my ballast box so I can move the loaded snowmobile trailer to snowblow without pulling off the box, and make some frames for various tasks around the garage. I would guess that a large part of what I would need to work with would be angle iron or the flat plates of steel of the tractor.

If I understand your comments correctly and have applied the information against what I'm certain of for use, it sounds like a DC stick welding system would be adequate for me.

The best weld for the money is an AC stick. If you stay with 6013 or 7014 rods you'll be pleased with the results. If you can buy a used unit you'll likely be able to sell it for what you bought it for, and you're not out anything to try it.

I'd suggest you get a used AC stick machine. Burn about 10 pounds of rod on scrap and non-essential projects. You may find that you're happy with the AC unit and you can spend your money on other things like band saws, sand blasters, O/A torch, and the list will go on.

 

[meburdick]

The best weld for the money is an AC stick. If you stay with 6013 or 7014 rods you'll be pleased with the results. If you can buy a used unit you'll likely be able to sell it for what you bought it for, and you're not out anything to try it.

I'd suggest you get a used AC stick machine. Burn about 10 pounds of rod on scrap and non-essential projects. You may find that you're happy with the AC unit and you can spend your money on other things like band saws, sand blasters, O/A torch, and the list will go on.

Some questions about this, then...

1) How will I know if I'm "happy" with this sort of set up or should move on to try something else?

2) Why would you recommend AC over DC or combo? How are they different?

3) If this isn't the best setup for me, what would I "move up to" from here?

4) Any suggestions on specific brands / models to look for in the used market? And, at what approximate price point?

 

[Iplayfarmer]

Some questions about this, then...

1) How will I know if I'm "happy" with this sort of set up or should move on to try something else?

As you weld you'll start feel whether you want more or not. DC lends itself to more flexibility. If you get to the point with AC where you wish you could do more, you may move to DC or some other process. AC is still a good place to start.

2) Why would you recommend AC over DC or combo? How are they different?

Price.

DC is a better process because of the flexibility mentioned above, but you can get into a used AC unit for a lot less money that a DC unit. Plus, you see the AC units come up for sale on the used market more often. (Because we all think we need to upgrade to DC).

AC stick is the best value for a homeowner or hobbyist to get started welding, AND it does a pretty good job.

3) If this isn't the best setup for me, what would I "move up to" from here?

It will depend on what you feel like you need... Do you wish you could weld better on thinner metal? (get a MIG). Do you wish you had more rod options or more flexibility for thicker stuff? (get a DC unit). Do you wish you could weld better on different types of metal? (get TIG). There's no one best welder. It really depends on your style and what you decide to do with your machine.

4) Any suggestions on specific brands / models to look for in the used market? And, at what approximate price point?

Any brand you recognize is a good option... Hobart, Lincoln, Miller, etc. I had an old montgomery ward when I first started, and it did a great job. You should be able to get a good used AC stick welder for about $150... less if you're patient and willing to buy an ugly one.

 

[meburdick]

Thanks for the input.

I'm torn between a used AC and a new DC since I could buy a new DC unit for about $100 more than a used AC one (I don't like buying stuff used from people I don't know unless I'm very familiar with the product and can do a thorough checkout on it - I take excellent care of my stuff).

Excellent information to have, though, no matter which way I end up seeing this play out.

This is why I love forums like this... Lots of great people, with lots of experience and knowledge, and a willingness to share with others to help them learn.

 

[Stick895]

I would think a plan would be to take some courses at the Lincoln Welding school in Cleveland, esp. if you're close. MIG, TIG and OA about a week each.

 

[meburdick]

I would think a plan would be to take some courses at the Lincoln Welding school in Cleveland, esp. if you're close. MIG, TIG and OA about a week each.

For me, I'm not in that area (and I just realized that my profile didn't have any info so I updated it). I am going to explore possible Voc/Tec school options where I could learn or even pairing up with another member in the area that would possibly be able to give me some first-hand info.

 

[dex3361]

Do yourself a big favor and get a DC welder if you go stick. I remember going to welding school and certifying with DC welders. I bought a like new AC welder off my neighbor and I had to learn all over again. It was so more difficult to use and not as much choice in rods. JMHO

 

[Jesse masterson]

I'm almost afraid to mention this because of the attacks I may get , but here goes. A ac machine is more damgerous than a dc machine. More cases of electrocution . My dad and brother were pipefitters of combined 70 years and they wouldn't let anyone they knew buy a ac machine without warnig them of dangers they witnessed . Just study it for yourself. I have .

 

[Iplayfarmer]

I'm almost afraid to mention this because of the attacks I may get , but here goes. A ac machine is more damgerous than a dc machine. More cases of electrocution . My dad and brother were pipefitters of combined 70 years and they wouldn't let anyone they knew buy a ac machine without warnig them of dangers they witnessed . Just study it for yourself. I have .

I hadn't heard that. What makes AC more dangerous?

 

[Jesse masterson]

I don't know the whole story byemory but you can look it up on net. Ac has different effects on the heart than dc. Something about fibullating effect causes heart attack.

 

[meburdick]

I've read a couple of different things, not all of which make sense to me (not saying they aren't correct, just saying I don't understand them).

The piece that I don't quite follow is that AC is much more likely to cause heart defibrillation when the path of the current coursing through your body does not pass directly through the heart. And, this would be the case for shocks that don't pass through the left arm.

The piece that DOES make sense to me is that an AC power source is directly grounded to earth. This means that the ground extends all the way out to the torch, and touching a single wire (that's live) can shock you. With DC, you have to "complete the loop" through your body back to the DC Ground.

Either way, there are a couple of principles that I always keep in mind when working with anything electrical..

- Electricity takes the path of LEAST RESISTANCE to ground. If you're welding, and have you have an excellent ground on your work, "you" should never become part of that path (even if you're all sweaty, with no shirt on, lying on your back, on an unpainted steel surface, and you're welding something that's in contact with that surface).

- Shocks through your *left* arm are much more dangerous than those through your right arm because the current passes THROUGH your heart on its way to ground.

 

[Shield Arc]

Some people don't worry about it! :laughing:

 

[bcp]

From:
The Path of Least Resistance | content content from Electrical Construction and Maintenance (EC and M) Magazine

"Electricity does take low-resistance paths, including the one of least resistance. But it also takes every other path available to it."

 

[meburdick]

From:
The Path of Least Resistance | content content from Electrical Construction and Maintenance (EC and M) Magazine

"Electricity does take low-resistance paths, including the one of least resistance. But it also takes every other path available to it."

Something else to consider, though, is this...

When you have a path that is direct to ground, the resistance is essentially zero. Assuming the resistance is actually zero would mean that the current would be infinite. And, if that were the case, there would be "no current left over" to pass through the other paths that *do* have resistance.

The human body conducts electricity because of the water and salt in our cells. But, it's a fair amount of resistance, especially when compared to a direct earth ground (which is essentially no resistance).

 

[Jesse masterson]

So if someone was being electrocuted and they were barefooted standing in water all the electricity would be surging through there body to ground. If ypu touched them wearing rubber shoes you wouldn't be shocked. I believe you would.

 

[k0ua]

So if someone was being electrocuted and they were barefooted standing in water all the electricity would be surging through there body to ground. If ypu touched them wearing rubber shoes you wouldn't be shocked. I believe you would.

Jesse as long as the dielectric properties (insulating properties) of the rubber shoes held up to the applied voltage you would not be "shocked" You would be energized, but no current would flow and you would be uninjured. This is why lineman can touch a hi voltage line without being shocked. Energized or having your body rise to the applied voltage is not a problem except when the voltage gets to the hundreds of thousands of volts, and then the coronal effects can make it difficult to see. Now back to your theoretical person in good (non leaky ) rubber boots Let say they touch the person that is having the heck shocked out of them and they wont feel a thing. Now have a third person with the bare feet standing in the salt water come over and touch the person wearing the rubber boots . Now all three persons including the guy wearing the rubber boots are going to get the heck shocked out of them. what is the difference between person number 1 and person number 3 you say? well no current will flow to the boot wearer from touching no. 1 because there is no return path, even tho the boot wearer is energized from touching no.1 guy. so when no.3 guy touches the other side of boot wearer, he completes a path from the source voltage which is no.1 guy THRU boot wearer to the return path of no.3 guy. Savvy?

James K0UA

 

[bcp]

Birds land on one high voltage power line many times. Birds land on two high voltage power lines once.



Bruce

 

[k0ua]

Birds land on one high voltage power line many times. Birds land on two high voltage power lines once.



Bruce

Yep always stay with your phase.

James K0UA

 

[Jesse masterson]

Makes total sense! Thanks

 

[Iplayfarmer]

Jesse as long as the dielectric properties (insulating properties) of the rubber shoes held up to the applied voltage you would not be "shocked" You would be energized, but no current would flow and you would be uninjured. This is why lineman can touch a hi voltage line without being shocked. Energized or having your body rise to the applied voltage is not a problem except when the voltage gets to the hundreds of thousands of volts, and then the coronal effects can make it difficult to see. Now back to your theoretical person in good (non leaky ) rubber boots Let say they touch the person that is having the heck shocked out of them and they wont feel a thing. Now have a third person with the bare feet standing in the salt water come over and touch the person wearing the rubber boots . Now all three persons including the guy wearing the rubber boots are going to get the heck shocked out of them. what is the difference between person number 1 and person number 3 you say? well no current will flow to the boot wearer from touching no. 1 because there is no return path, even tho the boot wearer is energized from touching no.1 guy. so when no.3 guy touches the other side of boot wearer, he completes a path from the source voltage which is no.1 guy THRU boot wearer to the return path of no.3 guy. Savvy?

James K0UA

BTDT... My dad like to play that trick on us when we were kids. He'd be wearing his rubber irrigating boots and touch the electric fence to make us think it wasn't on. Then we'd touch it and discover otherwise. One of us discovered one day that if we touched him while he was touching the fence he got shocked, too. He didn't play that trick on us so much anymore after that.