Intro into Brazing

[51allis]

Do your research and talk to a Weldor. A welding course would be good. MAPP gas is hard to get due to new rules. Brazing is for very thin materials and you need to get the metal near red hot for it to work.

"A welding course would be good" VERY true. 30 years ago, my rural area schools offered "adult community education" courses (utilizing intermediate school welding lab), welding was one of them. Took the course for $35 for a full school year at night. The best thing I ever did was learn to weld from this class and the various processes. At that time, those classes even offered a chance to get certified. You learned at your own pace etc. SAD its no longer offered, but I passed on my knowledge to my son and many of his friends, taught them the basics, they got a life skill and some are now professional certified welders.

 

[walhondingMF]

I do have a hobart mig welder. I've just never welded anything thin and not sure how low I can crank it down to do an ok job.

 

[5030]

All good suggestions. The most important one is gaining the knowledge before anything else. Take a class and learn the basics first. Nice thing about O/A brazing and welding, yes, you can weld with O/A is it is an excellent prerequisite to TIG welding. Same basic discipline except the 'torch' is replaced with an electric arc and unlike O/A welding, you must keep the filler / welding rod in the inert gas envelope.

Harbor Freight sells an excellent O/A torch set and rent the bottles from a local gas supplier instead of buying the small bottles outright. The 'porta bottles are fine for small jobs, but lack the cubic feet of gas to do much and deplete quickly.

I'm AWS certified in TIG, MIG and O/A and it's been profitable for me plus it's an enjoyable discipline so long as you know what you are doing, if you lack the knowledge is can and will turn into frustration.

 

[51allis]

I do have a hobart mig welder. I've just never welded anything thin and not sure how low I can crank it down to do an ok job.

I gave my son my Hobart 140 mig, biggest mistake I ever made hahaha. But that welder will go down to 22 amps and can weld some thin steel with solid wire and C25 gas, but then you have to have the gas. However, it also welds with flux core .030 you can turn it all the way down and practice, please remember, you might have to start and stop or alternate where you are welding (might even have to "stack dimes" kinda like tack welding over n over but it works on thin metal) so it wont overheat. But just find some practice scraps some where that are about the same thickness etc. The reason I bought my HF Titanium 125 was because it was cheap and my future plan was to get the Hobart 210 MVP. Between my stick welder, HF Titanium 125 and future Hobart 210 MVP, can weld just about anything on the farm etc.

 

[5030]

I do have a hobart mig welder. I've just never welded anything thin and not sure how low I can crank it down to do an ok job.

MIG welding takes little skill to master. I refer to MIG welding as the 'glue gun' of welding. O/A takes skill and TIG takes even more skill.

With any welding discipline, prep is everything. Why it's imperative to gain the knowledge before anything else and that knowledge is available at your local community college with a basic weldors course.

Owning a MIG welder and correct MIG welding are 2 distinctly different things even though MIG welding is not a skilled procedure, however correct MIG welding is to a certain extent. Learn the basics first.

I own a couple MIG machines and they both run inert gas and solid wire and one of them delivers high enough amperage for spray arc welding but that is another story for another time and not here. Spray arc or Globular transfer MIG is my favorite weld discipline, but again, you have to know what you are doing to achieve successful spray arc welding and not something you can 'just do' with limited knowledge.

 

[51allis]

I do have a hobart mig welder. I've just never welded anything thin and not sure how low I can crank it down to do an ok job.

One other tip for thin welding with flux core mig and there is some dispute but as long as its not a structural piece try this: hold the mig nozzle a little farther away from your thin metal piece. A certified welder taught me that about 10 years ago, what happens is that the farther the wire sticks out the more heat it absorbs so the weld is not so hot. There will probably be some arguments on that but it does work because when the nozzle is held close, the wire gets hot to a point where it meets the electrical connection of the torch tip, the farther away the torch tip is and the longer the welding wire stick out you can actually see the wire turn red absorbing the heat. Obviously...there is point where it doesn't work and its too far away which is why you need to practice first on scrap. AGAIN, even I know my limits and that's one the first things you learn in welding class is to know your limits when it comes to safety of yourself and others. if its just for something non structural go for it and try it out.

 

[5030]

Additionally, Lincoln Electric offers an excellent welding school, taught by professional welders and instructors in all disciplines from basic O/A welding - brazing to MIG, pulsed MIG to globular transfer to basic TIG and advanced TIG to the prerequisites for nuclear TIG certification. I've taken a number of the Lincoln courses and recommend them highly. While I'm not nuclear certified and don't need to be all of their courses are excellent and of course taught with Lincoln machines.

My philosophy is, when you quit learning, you have passed (as in died). I learn every day.

 

[5030]

Thin material and MIG really don't marry well. Thin material is best welded with o/a or TIG. One great competency test is butt welding 2 aluminum pop cans together or welding a broken metal tape measure back together.

 

[walhondingMF]

I am currently running .030 flux in my welder but I do have gas hook up capabilities. Will gas MIG work better on thinner material than flux?

 

[POGuy]

I do quite of bit of brazing, I have tried the Mapp sys and it is not worth the time to pay for it. Do what Wrangler X says, get a small set if you plan on not doing much. They are small bottles and can be moved easily. When you get the hang of it, you might want to get the bigger bottles, just be sure when you do, they are stamped SOLD or RESIDENT on the bottles or you will have problems getting them refilled. Stay away from the Mapp gas idea unless you are just looking for a fancy soldering sys. Acy. and Ox is the only way to go when using Brass.

I think true MAPP gas is no longer available. There is a newer product available in the yellow cylinder but it is only about 100 degrees hotter than propane and will probably disappoint you.

 

[WranglerX]

I do have a hobart mig welder. I've just never welded anything thin and not sure how low I can crank it down to do an ok job.

Ummmm....

Welding Tips and Tricks - TIG, MIG, Stick and a pantload of other info

Down and Dirty Welding tips and tricks , No PhD's allowed

weldingtipsandtricks.com

 

[WranglerX]

I am currently running .030 flux in my welder but I do have gas hook up capabilities. Will gas MIG work better on thinner material than flux?

With .023 solid wire and C25 gas you can weld thin materials well... Technique is to do a tack weld about every inch or so along seam, then come back and add new tack weld next to existing one, do this repeatedly till you have full/complete weld along seam....

Welding Tips and Tricks - TIG, MIG, Stick and a pantload of other info

Down and Dirty Welding tips and tricks , No PhD's allowed

weldingtipsandtricks.com

 

[5030]

I am currently running .030 flux in my welder but I do have gas hook up capabilities. Will gas MIG work better on thinner material than flux?

IMO, flu core wire is just an excuse for not having the required practical and taught experience. Flux core wire is just as messy as stick welding. There are some instances where flux core wire is preferred like when hard surfacing for instance. To answer your question, inert gas MIG is better on thin materials so long as pre prep is done properly and 75-25 or tri mix is good. I tend to use tri mix all the time.

MIG really don't lend itself to weld thin materials unless you have the necessary experience before hand. When it comes to thin, I always use pulsed TIG because you can keep electrode (tungsten) amperage very low so no burn through. MIG has it's place in production welding or fitting up parts in an expeditious amount of time. I use it when I fabricate and fit up multiple assemblies that are properly prepped of course.

 

[5030]

TIG welding is a whole different ballgame and not something the average home-farm welder needs to get into. Unlike the video, I prefer ceramic cups over clear Pyrex because you can 'walk' a ceramic cupm you cannot walk a pyrex cup and when welding aluminum (TIG) a water cooles torch is required because of the high amperage necessary. I use a Series 2 CK Worldwide water cooled flex head torch and an Everlast water cooler with special solution in the lines. It's imperative that the cooling solution is non conductive. I get all my tungsten from Tungsten Specialty and again, no clear cups. The upfront cost of TIG welding is pretty high I might add from the machine to the torch to the consumables, it all costs some serious jack.

 

[51allis]

I am currently running .030 flux in my welder but I do have gas hook up capabilities. Will gas MIG work better on thinner material than flux?

yes because you can use .023 solid wire with C25 and it does body panels and many other thin metals just fine. Remember with gas and solid wire, DO NOT do the previous tip I gave you about wire stand out, that only applies to flux core because the farther away you hold the torch with GAS/solid wire there won't be enough shielding the wire, with flux core no gas. But usually with gas and solid you can weld thinner materials than flux core.

 

[51allis]

IMO, flu core wire is just an excuse for not having the required practical and taught experience. Flux core wire is just as messy as stick welding. There are some instances where flux core wire is preferred like when hard surfacing for instance. To answer your question, inert gas MIG is better on thin materials so long as pre prep is done properly and 75-25 or tri mix is good. I tend to use tri mix all the time.

MIG really don't lend itself to weld thin materials unless you have the necessary experience before hand. When it comes to thin, I always use pulsed TIG because you can keep electrode (tungsten) amperage very low so no burn through. MIG has it's place in production welding or fitting up parts in an expeditious amount of time. I use it when I fabricate and fit up multiple assemblies that are properly prepped of course.

To each his own I suppose but to say that a person doesn't have enough experience etc. or that flux core and rod are messy makes you look like a welding snob. Funny that you preach teaching and education but yet you discount older methods that work just fine. Stick has been around and is till used for many many applications. Flux core is still used in industrial applications as well along with gas for double shielding.

 

[5030]

To each his own I suppose but to say that a person doesn't have enough experience etc. or that flux core and rod are messy makes you look like a welding snob. Funny that you preach teaching and education but yet you discount older methods that work just fine. Stick has been around and is till used for many many applications. Flux core is still used in industrial applications as well along with gas for double shielding.

Well, I do it for a living, not a hobby. Never said that FC was not for industrial applications. It is, especially where speed and production is a requirement. Having said that, most industrial applications will be solid core and shielding gas simply because flux core wire is inherently more expensive and post cleanup is much greater (spatter).

I still weld SMAW with my Lincoln engine drive in the field because it works, not that it's the preferred method. Been burning rod for at least 35 years, maybe longer.

Like I said and maintain... Take a welding course and get the hands on experience. Knowledge is and will always be the best teacher.

 

[sunandsand]

Take a course at your local community college . . . often they are cheap or even free!

Soldering is easy for me, I can solder a tissue to a steel beam, but welding was another story.

I used to be the world's worst welder (and had a certificate to prove it), but took a couple of courses, total cost wasn't $150, and while I am by no means "good" at it I can at least make stuff stick together. Practice, practice, practice.

Dear Bride (tm) subscribes to a number of veddy fawncy home design magazines, and some of the very, very expensive "objects d' art" are actually pretty simple, basic metalwork and welding, that kind of thing.

I've already duplicated an elegant marble-faced clock which retails for $800+, I did it for about $20, and they can't be told apart (maybe I'm in the wrong business?).

Some of the lighting fixtures and furniture are next . . .

Best Regards,
Mike/Florida

 

[the old grind]

I am currently running .030 flux in my welder but I do have gas hook up capabilities. Will gas MIG work better on thinner material than flux?

KISS method:

Practice stitching with FC & any $99 HFT/other wire welder. Somewhere between 1 & 2 sec of trigger time like tacking up for a big job. Chip flux often to see f you're getting a good 'spot' each time.

Filling in vs running a long bead, like when the muffler broke off on my old NH 1520, takes time but gets 'er done. Thin stuff is about all I welded for ten years & I gotta be proof that little to no skill is required.

btw, for brazing I'll use OA or a carbon arc torch. In the past, it was called hard-soldering in some trades. Prep is the same for anything & HFT sand blaster with hopper on gun gets where grinder can't reach.

 

[part-time-Farmer-NC]

I didn't know this thread existed. I mainly use my Oxy-acetylene kit for cutting or heating metals with a Rosebud. Now that I have a Plasma cutter, I cut more with it. I have a gate that is made out of Aluminum, and a buddy of mine who teaches welding fixed a crack with a tig, but it didn't hold, so another buddy told me to try and braise it, so I just started looking into it. I haven't braised in over 30 years and don't remember any of it so will be watching some videos. I use a heavy-duty Victor-style torch set. Does anyone know what Braising tip size is needed for Aluminum? I have none...thx

I have used the aluminum brazing type rods before with decent success. That was a couple of decades ago. But I did see on youtube a few months ago where some dude was testing the tensile strength of it against other stuff. It held up pretty well. I'd overfill it a little then sand it down.