Broken again, loosing faith

[kco]

It's been interesting to follow this thread, see how it was successfully resolved, and to hear how the new tractor is working out.

Perhaps you could solve the box blade clearance problem by extending the distance with a Pat's quick hitch or similar, or modify the box blade mounting brackets. I had a similar problem with my Farm King finishing mower. I resolved it by replacing the four flat mounting plates with longer ones.

Of course all this could be fixed with appropriate warning labels on the box blade, 3 point hitch arms and tires (couldn't resist!!!).

 

[kiotiken]

Of course all this could be fixed with appropriate warning labels on the box blade, 3 point hitch arms and tires (couldn't resist!!!).

:laughing::laughing::laughing: + one on the door of the cab to instruct me to read ALL safety labels before entering!

 

[Stick895]

Judging by the size of the owners manuals on things like guns and trucks, if they'd get rid of the warnings they could be half the size and save a ton of paper. Save the trees, use your head!

 

[Mousefield]

Judging by the size of the owners manuals on things like guns and trucks, if they'd get rid of the warnings they could be half the size and save a ton of paper. Save the trees, use your head!

It is amazing how stupid some people can be though. The warning labels never stop. Stuff like "don't dry your cat in the microwave" :laughing: :laughing:
Or, don't put a cup of hot coffee between your legs while driving. :mur:
Suspect a lot of the warning labels are to stop the stupid people from suing the manufacturer.

 

[krazsk]

Have you ever read the Arctic Cat 4 wheel ATV owner's manual? It essentially says, "Do not drive this ATV, it is dangerous and may kill you"

 

[IslandTractor]

It is amazing how stupid some people can be though. The warning labels never stop. Stuff like "don't dry your cat in the microwave" :laughing: :laughing:
Or, don't put a cup of hot coffee between your legs while driving. :mur:
Suspect a lot of the warning labels are to stop the stupid people from suing the manufacturer.

While I agree that no number of warning labels will prevent some inexperienced soul from doing damage, it is realistic to acknowledge the obvious which is that probably the majority of Kioti buyers have either zero tractor experience or at best limited experience. That certainly goes double for hydraulic systems, backhoes, loaders and implements other than mowers. Their manuals and safety equipment should reflect this reality.

 

[DK35vince]

While I agree that no number of warning labels will prevent some inexperienced soul from doing damage, it is realistic to acknowledge the obvious which is that probably the majority of Kioti buyers have either zero tractor experience or at best limited experience. That certainly goes double for hydraulic systems, backhoes, loaders and implements other than mowers. Their manuals and safety equipment should reflect this reality.

Exactly.
An experianced operater would likely notice something was wrong if the remote was accidently left/bumped on and turn it off. No problem.
Someone with little to no experiance could be running around for hours with the remote lever detented on and have no idea till it causes problems.

 

[aczlan]

While I agree that no number of warning labels will prevent some inexperienced soul from doing damage, it is realistic to acknowledge the obvious which is that probably the majority of Kioti buyers have either zero tractor experience or at best limited experience. That certainly goes double for hydraulic systems, backhoes, loaders and implements other than mowers. Their manuals and safety equipment should reflect this reality.

Exactly.
An experianced operater would likely notice something was wrong if the remote was accidently left/bumped on and turn it off. No problem.
Someone with little to no experiance could be running around for hours with the remote lever detented on and have no idea till it causes problems.

Exactly, I would probably notice it fairly quickly, but my wife, or father-in-law? Not so much.
IMO, tractor aimed at the mass market should be designed so that you cant break something major by snagging your shirtsleeve on a remote lever while getting on/off.

Ok look at it this way, Lets say this is a Kubota, and disregard the rear remote with the detent, lets say we operate the main lift valve on the FEL, it goes all the way up and we just sit there and hold the valve back and keep on holding it. The system goes into relief, and we notice the drag on the motor and the whine noise, but we just keep on holding it, How long will the pump on the Kubota last? Developing full pressure into the deadheaded fully extended cylinders. This is the same scenario we are talking about here with the rear remote with the control valve locked into detent and full pressure developed into the not moving connector, with the relief valve trying to relieve the pressure.

My issue is that in your scenarios you have to ACTIVELY do something to cause the failure (hold the valve open, push against the tree, etc). On the Kioti (from what I have read) the lever could get bumped as you are getting on/off without any intent on the part of the operator and (if the operator is not familiar with the tractor) could fail without any warning.

Aaron Z

 

[schweizer]

It's been beaten to death already but I sure am happy I didn't have to add another valve w/ detent function just because I want to use my backhoe. The detent function is there for a reason. There's all kinds of buttons and levers and knobs on equipment. You are responsible for knowing what they do before pushing and pulling them, or face the consequences. Doesn't matter if you're a tractor newbie or not. Get to know the tractor thoroughly before taking it off the dealer's lot, and read the manual!

Now for a (stupid) question on similar vein of thought, if "B" position ("pull back") activates the rear remotes, what is "A" (push forward) commonly used for? I've owned my tractor 4 years and never thought about it. At work and can't go check under the tractor... guess I'll have to look when I get home.

Marcus

 

[murphy1244]

It's been beaten to death already but I sure am happy I didn't have to add another valve w/ detent function just because I want to use my backhoe. The detent function is there for a reason. There's all kinds of buttons and levers and knobs on equipment. You are responsible for knowing what they do before pushing and pulling them, or face the consequences. Doesn't matter if you're a tractor newbie or not. Get to know the tractor thoroughly before taking it off the dealer's lot, and read the manual!

Now for a (stupid) question on similar vein of thought, if "B" position ("pull back") activates the rear remotes, what is "A" (push forward) commonly used for? I've owned my tractor 4 years and never thought about it. At work and can't go check under the tractor... guess I'll have to look when I get home.

Marcus

If you put the lever in A the fluid goes to the A port on the back of your tractor. If you put it in B it goes to the B port.
Works great for a top link.

 

[IslandTractor]

If you put the lever in A the fluid goes to the A port on the back of your tractor. If you put it in B it goes to the B port.
Works great for a top link.

Yep, that way, if you are disorganized as I am and forget to mark the backhoe hoses, you can maintain the correct flow and control orientation in case you hook it up backwards.

Regarding top link, I use the remote with the detents for that so I can feather the flow more easily. I use the other one for the BH

 

[schweizer]

Great! I just assumed one port was return-to-tank and the other was pressurized. So, I marked a backhoe hose and its matching port w/ red electrical tape so I didn't get them switched. Learn something new every day.

 

[murphy1244]

Yep, that way, if you are disorganized as I am and forget to mark the backhoe hoses, you can maintain the correct flow and control orientation in case you hook it up backwards.

Regarding top link, I use the remote with the detents for that so I can feather the flow more easily. I use the other one for the BH

I am having the 2nd set of remotes done so I can run a grapple but it will have to wait awhile.

 

[IslandTractor]

I am having the 2nd set of remotes done so I can run a grapple but it will have to wait awhile.

I'd use the spring loaded one for grapple control. Again, the feathering will be easier.

 

[phiferpharm]

I'd use the spring loaded one for grapple control. Again, the feathering will be easier.

Yup. Since I got the grapple with the tractor, it runs off the "stick". I must admit, I did leave it in detent by accident when I shut down yesterday morning and for a second couldn't figure out why my carry-all was not going up correctly when I restarted in the afternoon. Pushed it to neutral and all was right with the world.

 

[IslandTractor]

I agree that this can be a feature depending on what you want to do with your machine. My issue is mainly that Kioti has not documented this feature in any way. I should be able to read the manual and know that this lever is detented.

I agree. The proper use of valves and associated pitfalls should be more carefully documented. There is a balance between exaggerated lawyer provoked warning labels and no useful information. The owner's manual is currently more of a "where do I find this part" and "how often do I change the oil" type of document than a useful general operator's manual for safe and efficient tractor use. Commercial operators may not need a detailed operator's manual but the rest of us do. I find the optional service manual to be well written, well illustrated and informative on most subjects but I don't recall even there any section on hydraulic valves. It is almost as though the manufacturer considers the remote valves to be someone else's responsibility just as they would regard 3PT attachments to be outside the scope of their base documentation. Wrong.