Broken again, loosing faith

[aczlan]

Something is liable to give up after a while, but the point is the detented control valve for the rear remotes can, and has been accidentally operated by someone, and left that way so dealers are apprehensive about them.

I agree with the rest of you post, but wanted to say that it just seems odd and unprofessional to me that a tractor manufacturer would intentionally send a tractor out for years with a known issue that if you don't use a loop or remove the detent balls and the lever gets bumped you WILL fry the pump.
You call it "not a big deal" I call it poor engineering (at best). From the other threads I have read, this major issue isnt mentioned in the users manual and if the dealer isnt on the ball, the end user will have no idea that bumping that A/B lever without noticing it can cook their pump.
What happens when the 2nd owner dosent get the manual or the warning about the valve and removes "that stupid loop of hose that keeps snagging on everything" from their tractor?
What is the advantage to using this valve over a hose loop like most other mfgs use?

Aaron Z

 

[k0ua]

I agree with the rest of you post, but wanted to say that it just seems odd and unprofessional to me that a tractor manufacturer would intentionally send a tractor out for years with a known issue that if you don't use a loop or remove the detent balls and the lever gets bumped you WILL fry the pump.
You call it "not a big deal" I call it poor engineering (at best). From the other threads I have read, this major issue isnt mentioned in the users manual and if the dealer isnt on the ball, the end user will have no idea that bumping that A/B lever without noticing it can cook their pump.
What happens when the 2nd owner dosent get the manual or the warning about the valve and removes "that stupid loop of hose that keeps snagging on everything" from their tractor?
What is the advantage to using this valve over a hose loop like most other mfgs use?

Aaron Z

Well you make good points. But some people really like the Detented valve. Remember Island's post? Also when owners install a valve stack themselves on their tractors, like the prince valves. often guys will install at least one detented valve. What can I say.. I did not want the detented valve, the dealer did not want to send the tractor out with the detented valve so we were in agreement.

James K0UA

 

[Coyote machine]

I agree with the rest of you post, but wanted to say that it just seems odd and unprofessional to me that a tractor manufacturer would intentionally send a tractor out for years with a known issue that if you don't use a loop or remove the detent balls and the lever gets bumped you WILL fry the pump.
You call it "not a big deal" I call it poor engineering (at best). From the other threads I have read, this major issue isnt mentioned in the users manual and if the dealer isnt on the ball, the end user will have no idea that bumping that A/B lever without noticing it can cook their pump.
What happens when the 2nd owner dosent get the manual or the warning about the valve and removes "that stupid loop of hose that keeps snagging on everything" from their tractor?
What is the advantage to using this valve over a hose loop like most other mfgs use?

Aaron Z

Your profile says you are a Kubota owner, yes?
This 'issue' is not a problem on your tractor(s) is it?
You can call it whatever you want including 'poor quality engineering' etc.
Fact is we here on the Kioti forum keep our friends up to date on issues like this, and offer advice and or a workaround.
Workarounds are noted and we pay attention to them. If you have such a problem with this, "major issue" as you like to call it and Kioti's "unprofessional and in your opinion "odd" way of doing things, I suggest you write them a letter at their S. Carolina Headquarters and let them know your overarching concerns about our major tractor problems and your solutions to these problems.

 

[Jesse masterson]

I agree I have a dk 45 and I also think it could be poor engineering or at least poor insight. When I bought mine(from a dealer) I wasn't even warned of the issue and made a phone call inquiring what it's use was for. Kioti owner or not it still is a place of improvement and could be arrested. The loop should already be put in as factory

 

[sodamo]

Thanks, but after looking at the pictures of your place from your trenching thread, that feeling is mutual.

Mahalo

 

[murphy1244]

Its NOT the joystick we're talking about! Its the A/B circuit of one of the two possible PAIRS of rear remotes. The second pair, (C/D)comes from Kioti WITHOUT a detent in the valve's body.
The relief valve doesn't enter into the equation because there is no flow. With the lever for A/B circuit in either A OR B position, therefore detented, the pump is pumping against a wall. NO FLOW. Pump gets no return flow to it and thus burns out; unlike when it gets flow from pump back through pump with the loop in the circuit completing the circle of flow.

One last time: Use a loop, or don't, and burn out a pump. OR remove the detents. Choice is operator's.

Seems this thread is plenty hijacked now. Let's end this endless discussion of something pretty simple to grasp- OK?:confused2::thumbsup:

read it all the way.. aux.....what is your letter code?

 

[Coyote machine]

read it all the way.. aux.....what is your letter code?

??????????????????????????????????????????????:J

 

[murphy1244]

??????????????????????????????????????????????:J

You are confusing????????????????????????????????????:laughing::laughing::confused2:

You know excactly what I'm talking about.

 

[grsthegreat]

Why do we want to do this. Could you explain a little.

the rear remote on the Kioti tractor has a detente in it. if you push it forward or back it can lock in-place and allow oil to flow. This is great if your running a logsplitter.... but horrible if there's NOTHING connected to the port. That is called deadheading and it can destroy a hydraulic pump in a matter of seconds.

you don't want to hear the groaning sounds that occur during deadheading.

As an after thought, if they add a second rear remote port, it doesnt have the detente feature so it does not require the hose.

 

[grsthegreat]

Wow. I think some of you are over analyzing this potential problem. For the detented lever which has A or B position, one position always makes enough noise it would be hard to miss when it deadheads the hydraulic pump. The other direction on the lever is quieter when connected to something like a hoe. There are two easy solutions: run a loop when nothing else is in the circuit to prevent a deadhead situation, OR remove the detents. As IT said, the valve is detented for a reason, if you want to disable it go ahead- problem solved. If you want the advantage of a detented valve leave it alone and install a loop. Sometimes its not even about not hearing the relief valve whine, sometimes one just forgets to take the valve out of detent position after removing a hoe., and then a pump can be burnt out for no reason and a HUGE expensive replacement cost. One would think that installing a loop hose would be a simple enough solution. I leave my loop on the dolly my hoe rests on when stored to remind me to install the loop when the detented circuit is absent an implement requiring flow. In fact, my dealer was nice enough to make up a hose for me no charge.
Hope this helps.:thumbsup:

A+++ statement. agree 100%.
its really a simple solution. not some major design flaw meant to destroy a tractor. I personally like the detente function and use it for my log splitter during the summer months.

 

[grsthegreat]

Who else uses such a valve on their CUT? Kubota? Deere? CNH?

Aaron Z

ive seen this same system used on nearly EVERY skid steer loader ive ever used. all brands.

My old CASE 850 dozer had it also.

Now as far as JD goes. My old JD870 had the power beyond system hooked into a fender mounted set of control valves to rear remotes. They WOULD dead head if used unconnected. so im not sure why you think that Kioti is at fault here.

 

[Jesse masterson]

I do get it ???????c. Hilarious

 

[Coyote machine]

I do get it ???????c. Hilarious

So are we good now?:thumbsup:

 

[Jesse masterson]

Good enough! But civil!!!! Just can't stop laughing!

 

[Coyote machine]

Good enough! But civil!!!! Just can't stop laughing!

Yeah, I'm just a funny guy:thumbsup:

 

[Jesse masterson]

I'd trade the thumb in for a finger : haha I guess I'm funny too

 

[Coyote machine]

I'd trade the thumb in for a finger : haha I guess I'm funny too

Careful, now you're venturing into a no fly zone for this site...TBN considers itself to be based on family values, 'cause there are lots of kids and others here who could take offense at innuendo like the above - just a word to the wise...or in your case

 

[Coyote machine]

ive seen this same system used on nearly EVERY skid steer loader ive ever used. all brands.

My old CASE 850 dozer had it also.

Now as far as JD goes. My old JD870 had the power beyond system hooked into a fender mounted set of control valves to rear remotes. They WOULD dead head if used unconnected. so im not sure why you think that Kioti is at fault here.

Yes, more evidence that its NOT a problem, UNLESS one allows it to be a problem. And, BTW, the hose loop can't be factory installed since it has to be added when nothing else is in the circuit. Kioti could choose to supply a short loop with every tractor, but at some point the tractor owner needs to be aware how to operate their tractor safely and understand how the controls, and functions operate.
I'll give the argument the benefit of the doubt in saying that Kioti ought to mention something about not deadheading the pump, in the owner's manual, shop manual, on a label near the rear remotes, on a sticker by the detented lever, and in a personally addressed letter from the company president in South Korea. Well maybe the last one could skate- for now...

 

[Jesse masterson]

Don't know what you mean I was sayin you have four fingers and only one thumb huh? Guess I don't get it ??????????????? But thanks for being a good proprietor well all sleep better with you on watch. though I'd mention the" lifting the most" thread you started did have some borderliners on it you may mention it at the board meeting.

 

[lilranch2001]

James,

You're right, he is trying and it is tempting, and I'd be lying if I said I'd thought of much else since talking to him about it yesterday. My wifes reaction was pretty decisive though. There is a difference between her and your wife and most of the other wives here on TBN, she's driven the tractor a total of about 15 ft after a LOT of encouragement on my part, and she hated every foot :laughing: That's the sum of her experience on a tractor. Getting her to go to my dealer and actually get out of the car would be as easy as her getting me to go to a weekend scrap-booking convention:laughing: Here's what she wants me to do, in order of course.

1) Sell my CK, take the money and invest it, forget I ever had a tractor.
2) Give my CK away, any takers?
3) Re-consider #1.
4) Stop using it, tarp it off to hide it and forget it's there, maybe plant some shrubs around it.
5) Use the bh to dig a really big hole and bury it. This is only behind #4 because it would involve me spending more time on the tractor!

The only glimmer of hope I have is that she can't believe how much my CK breaks. After this last time she asked me how much they're going to charge to come and fix it after the warranty is over and how much it's going to cost if they have to haul it away. This, and the fact that she knows me and that my complaints about my tractor not being able to do everything I want it to means it's a sure bet one day I'll trade up anyway, might get me a yellow light, and we all know what to do when the light goes yellow!

Man.... To me divorce would be sounding VERY tempting about right now