Flail Mower Let's talk flail mowers

[Privatedoc]

Thanks leonz...pm sent

 

[beppington]

I have a bush hog, so I can get that level of rough cut quality now. And when I use my dad's Caroni TM1900B the cut quality is of course much better than the bush hog, but still not quite that of a finish mower - Well, that's what I'd like, if possible. And it seems like blades with cutting edges parallel to the ground, rather than at a ~45-degree angle to the ground, would be more likely to provide that. It also seems like they might provide a little more up-draft than the B knives/rotor (if it has any at all).

Let me ask this: Why would somebody not want the "P" scoops/knives? What are the downsides to them?

AgriSupply is supposed to call me back to let me know the price of a Caroni TM1900PSC ... which has the "P" rotor with the scoop type knives with their cutting edge horizontally.

I just noticed that it has only 28 knives (on shackles), whereas the TM1900BSC that AgriSupply stocks has 56 of the Y shaped blades (on shackles).

I would love to see the cut results of the P version before buying - Anybody know where to find that?

 

[IslandTractor]

AgriSupply is supposed to call me back to let me know the price of a Caroni TM1900PSC ... which has the "P" rotor with the scoop type knives with their cutting edge horizontally.

I just noticed that it has only 28 knives (on shackles), whereas the TM1900BSC that AgriSupply stocks has 56 of the Y shaped blades (on shackles).

I would love to see the cut results of the P version before buying - Anybody know where to find that?

Note that 28x2=56. The "P" rotor is almost certainly the same rotor as for the "B" style but with different blades mounted. I could be wrong but I doubt it. If so you might just check on the price of switching out the B clevis, bolt and blades for the P blades. You could easily sell the unused B blades ($7 for 2)and clevis ($7) as B owners need to replace those periodically (rock strikes etc) and each station requires about $17 in parts from AgriSupply. You'd need to keep the nut and bolt but 26x$14 is almost $375 so not chump change. You could certainly sell them here on TBN for a fair price and clear $250 or so towards your P blades. You can buy P style blades from Flailmaster and other flail suppliers. Just find out the dimensions of the P blade and call Flailmaster for their match. I'm pretty sure that would be cheaper than special ordering from AgriSupply.

By the way, I know people are fascinated by the P blades but don't knock the plain B set up until you've tried it. If you travel at a reasonably moderate speed it will give a near finish cut. The B blades would be less likely to be damaged by rock strikes than the P blades too.

 

[beppington]

IT - My dad owns a B rotor model he bought at AgriSupply on 7/1/10, so I'm very familiar with its cut quality/results. And, that one is his, whereas I want my own, so will be buying a whole 'nother unit, rather than modifying his in any way.

Since I don't have access to use, or even see, the actual results of a P rotor model, I wonder if it would be smarter to buy another B rotor model from AgriSupply & also a set of P style blade from Flailmaster, & swap out the B knives to give the Ps a try. If they don't work well, or whatever, simply put the B's back on. If the Ps work great, leave them on & keep the Bs for a full backup set or individual backups for my dad's.

We have no rocks here, so so far he has not bent, broken, lost or even dulled a knife in over a year & a half :thumbsup: He's actually had zero problems at all. But he does simply mow his fields that are grazed by mini horses, so it's never all that tall, & no mowing of saplings/bushes ... & it's only about 10-12 acres total ... so it does live a pretty easy life.

Oh, just dawned on me: Caroni puts only 28 P knives on their P rotor vs 56 B's on their B rotor ... so would I want only 28 P knives from Flailmaster (leaving 1/2 the stations empty), 56 P knives that each weigh the same as the B knives, or better yet let Flailmaster tell me?? In fact, I think I'll call Flailmaster first before doing any of this :thumbsup:

 

[leonz]

IT - My dad owns a B rotor model he bought at AgriSupply on 7/1/10, so I'm very familiar with its cut quality/results. And, that one is his, whereas I want my own, so will be buying a whole 'nother unit, rather than modifying his in any way.

Since I don't have access to use, or even see, the actual results of a P rotor model, I wonder if it would be smarter to buy another B rotor model from AgriSupply & also a set of P style blade from Flailmaster, & swap out the B knives to give the Ps a try. If they don't work well, or whatever, simply put the B's back on. If the Ps work great, leave them on & keep the Bs for a full backup set or individual backups for my dad's.

We have no rocks here, so so far he has not bent, broken, lost or even dulled a knife in over a year & a half :thumbsup: He's actually had zero problems at all. But he does simply mow his fields that are grazed by mini horses, so it's never all that tall, & no mowing of saplings/bushes ... & it's only about 10-12 acres total ... so it does live a pretty easy life.

Oh, just dawned on me: Caroni puts only 28 P knives on their P rotor vs 56 B's on their B rotor ... so would I want only 28 P knives from Flailmaster (leaving 1/2 the stations empty), 56 P knives that each weigh the same as the B knives, or better yet let Flailmaster tell me?? In fact, I think I'll call Flailmaster first before doing any of this :thumbsup:

I cannot upload the file showing a first pass mowing using an SUV towing a mower with the scoop knives for you as the file limitations will not allow me to do this.

If you could send me a PM with your e-mail I can forward the file for you to allow you to look at the field as it is being mowed with the scoop/hammer knives.

 

[GreenWannabe]

I found a parts catalog for the Caroni flail mowers on their website, here: http://www.caroni.it/pdf/ricambi/4_CARONI_SPARE_PARTS_TRINCIAERBA.pdf. It shows that the rotor for each of the four knife types has a different part number, so I can only assume that there are differences. Some of the differences could be diameter, attachment lugs, etc., so simply changing knives and hangers may not have optimum results. I would contact Caroni to see if they can enumerate the differences, or if swapping blades and hangers would work properly.

 

[Reg]

There is a little bit of "weirdness" on the Caroni rotor, at least on MY sample.

The knives are mounted in pairs, back to back on a common shackle, 28 pairs, 28 shackles, 56 knives - that may help to clarify the count question.

Where it is weird is that at one end (I forgot which) the last pair appeared to have been assembled incorrectly, i.e. they were not back-to-back but "one in the other's lap", sort of like "LL" - - > middle of the rotor in this direction.
So I re-assembled them the way I thought they should be and sure enough within about a week I got a Jam-up.
LOOK FOR THIS when taking old knives off, it looks like an assembly line error, I thought it was, until the Jam-up.

I think leaving the extra blade out might not affect balance THAT MUCH, but I put it back in anyway.

 

[beppington]

There is a little bit of "weirdness" on the Caroni rotor, at least on MY sample.

The knives are mounted in pairs, back to back on a common shackle, 28 pairs, 28 shackles, 56 knives - that may help to clarify the count question.

Where it is weird is that at one end (I forgot which) the last pair appeared to have been assembled incorrectly, i.e. they were not back-to-back but "one in the other's lap", sort of like "LL" - - > middle of the rotor in this direction.
So I re-assembled them the way I thought they should be and sure enough within about a week I got a Jam-up.
LOOK FOR THIS when taking old knives off, it looks like an assembly line error, I thought it was, until the Jam-up.

I think leaving the extra blade out might not affect balance THAT MUCH, but I put it back in anyway.

Weird! I will check my dad's for that & report back.

 

[IslandTractor]

There is a little bit of "weirdness" on the Caroni rotor, at least on MY sample.

The knives are mounted in pairs, back to back on a common shackle, 28 pairs, 28 shackles, 56 knives - that may help to clarify the count question.

Where it is weird is that at one end (I forgot which) the last pair appeared to have been assembled incorrectly, i.e. they were not back-to-back but "one in the other's lap", sort of like "LL" - - > middle of the rotor in this direction.
So I re-assembled them the way I thought they should be and sure enough within about a week I got a Jam-up.
LOOK FOR THIS when taking old knives off, it looks like an assembly line error, I thought it was, until the Jam-up.

I think leaving the extra blade out might not affect balance THAT MUCH, but I put it back in anyway.

I haven't seen that and I have looked at my rotor/knives pretty carefully over the years having replaced a dozen or so. The rotor has a slightly weird and difficult to pin down symmetry but it is basically symmetric despite everything as otherwise it would vibrate things apart. You can tell almost immediately when you have lost a set of knives because the mower sounds/feels different due to being slightly imbalanced.

 

[leonz]

There is a little bit of "weirdness" on the Caroni rotor, at least on MY sample.

The knives are mounted in pairs, back to back on a common shackle, 28 pairs, 28 shackles, 56 knives - that may help to clarify the count question.

Where it is weird is that at one end (I forgot which) the last pair appeared to have been assembled incorrectly, i.e. they were not back-to-back but "one in the other's lap", sort of like "LL" - - > middle of the rotor in this direction.
So I re-assembled them the way I thought they should be and sure enough within about a week I got a Jam-up.
LOOK FOR THIS when taking old knives off, it looks like an assembly line error, I thought it was, until the Jam-up.

I think leaving the extra blade out might not affect balance THAT MUCH, but I put it back in anyway.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Hello Reg,

Something is not right somewhere as the knives that
are spooning will not cut very well.


If the pair of side slicers are spooning in the middle of the
rotor that set of side slicers will create an uncut skunk stripe
and they should be mounted like all the other pairs of knives
at each station.

One knive missing on a rotor will affect the rotation as it is
not balanced.

If you could upload a picture that would help me lot with
finding the problem as the side slicers should never,
never, never be spooning.

The only time you have a weird mounting is when you have
a dethatching blade which is installed between each pair
of side slicers OR a side slicer facing inward with a
dethatching blade on the last mount on the left or right
side of the knive mounting stations.

The A,B,F and P rotors are not set up to accept a
dethatching knive.



EDIT: when you were referring to a JAM UP was a pair of
knives stuck in one position and became entangled with
another pair of side slicers? this can happen with
long side slicers which do not have the slotted mounting
hole to permit them to create an airfoil effect with a knive
hanger that allows them to move sideways and become
a horizontal airfoil at speed.


_________________________________________________________________
Once you go flail you never go back:thumbsup::licking::drool:
Pronovost or not at all!!!:thumbsup::licking::drool:

 

[beppington]

AgriSupply is supposed to call me back to let me know the price of a Caroni TM1900PSC ... which has the "P" rotor with the scoop type knives with their cutting edge horizontally.

I just noticed that it has only 28 knives (on shackles), whereas the TM1900BSC that AgriSupply stocks has 56 of the Y shaped blades (on shackles).

I would love to see the cut results of the P version before buying - Anybody know where to find that?

AgriSupply finally called back & said the P rotor version is $2,467.95 + shipping from NC to FL. That's $648 more than the B rotor they stock ... too rich for my blood just to try out the scoop knives.

 

[IslandTractor]

AgriSupply finally called back & said the P rotor version is $2,467.95 + shipping from NC to FL. That's $648 more than the B rotor they stock ... too rich for my blood just to try out the scoop knives.

We're you able to find out if the P version rotor is actually different than the B blade version? You might need to call Caroni directly.

If you just started with the B version for about $1800 I would think just a blade switch would e possible for either less than $200 or even no net cost if you sold the unneeded but new B blades and clevises.

You could do an experiment by temporarily converting you father's flail to P blades for the cost of blades and a few hours with an air wrench.

 

[beppington]

We're you able to find out if the P version rotor is actually different than the B blade version?

No, I didn't think to ask that. And the guy I spoke to does not seem like the type to be willing to get into those kinds of details.

You might need to call Caroni directly.

I don't speak Italian

P rotor "must" be different than the B ... for $600+ more??

If you just started with the B version for about $1800 I would think just a blade switch would e possible for either less than $200 or even no net cost if you sold the unneeded but new B blades and clevises.

That's the route I will go.

 

[ericher69]

Hello Island Tractor,

Hope all is well,

I have been preparing for the weather they say
is coming east.

If anyone is lucky to find one of the old
Mott Interstaters that is a tow behind do
not hesistate to buy it even sight unseen.
as all they need is a bit of work and the
parts and bearings are generic.

I would love to find one of the old Mott
Interstater rear mounts that has the
four cylinder Wisconsin air cooled engines
on it.:drool::drool:

There is one flail mower that is made here and sold.
I will PM you with the name and the reseller.
I have mentioned it previously in one of my postings
that the construction is very poor in my opinion as the
mower shroud is too thin and the wheel bearings are simple
bushings that will fail and prevent you from assessing their
condition until its too late and the bore of the wheel is ruined.

Two exporters- Concept Agri and Wessex offer a heavy wheel bearing
option. These axles would allow you to install an oil lubricated axle assembly which is preferable to a greaded bushing any day as these wheels put a lot of milage on them.

I installed heavy roller bearings and new wheels and tires on my dads flailmower-the Mathews 48 inch Lawn Genie which he gave to me.
I have to get the other hoop shed up and the floor in it before I can bring it down from his new place as he can no longer start it, as the 33 year old 16 horse B+S I/C engine still has huge amount of compression on it. The new B+S V twins are an easy start engine and on most of the towed motorised european flails offered for sale.

_________________________________________________________________
Once you go flail you never go back:thumbsup::licking::drool:
Pronovost or not at all!!!:thumbsup::licking::drool:

Here are a few

http://watertown.craigslist.org/grd/2951360442.html

http://watertown.craigslist.org/grd/2940604728.html

 

[IslandTractor]

We're you able to find out if the P version rotor is actually different than the B blade version? You might need to call Caroni directly.

If you just started with the B version for about $1800 I would think just a blade switch would e possible for either less than $200 or even no net cost if you sold the unneeded but new B blades and clevises.

You could do an experiment by temporarily converting you father's flail to P blades for the cost of blades and a few hours with an air wrench.

Italian engineers speak English. Only we Americans are monolingual these days.

I would say that the price difference AgriSupply quoted is 100% due to special order and shipping costs. They only place a few large orders a year so you were quoted full retail rather than a volume discount price. I guaranty the P rotor if it is different at all is almost the same cost as the B rotor. The only possible differences are in the exact size of the mounting posts and perhaps the size of the hole drilled into those posts.

 

[leonz]

Here are a few

44 inch mott tow behind flail mower

MOTT Flail Mower 5 Feet

The five foot Mott is belly mount unit for the farmal A/ lowboy tractors.

The Mott forty four inch unit looks to be in very good condition. The phone number is automatically diverted to a voice mail system recorder.

 

[beppington]

There is a little bit of "weirdness" on the Caroni rotor, at least on MY sample.

The knives are mounted in pairs, back to back on a common shackle, 28 pairs, 28 shackles, 56 knives - that may help to clarify the count question.

Where it is weird is that at one end (I forgot which) the last pair appeared to have been assembled incorrectly, i.e. they were not back-to-back but "one in the other's lap", sort of like "LL" - - > middle of the rotor in this direction.
So I re-assembled them the way I thought they should be and sure enough within about a week I got a Jam-up.
LOOK FOR THIS when taking old knives off, it looks like an assembly line error, I thought it was, until the Jam-up.

I think leaving the extra blade out might not affect balance THAT MUCH, but I put it back in anyway.

Weird! I will check my dad's for that & report back.

Finally checked the knives my dad's Caroni today, & none of them were installed back-to-back like you describe. All are in the upside down "Y" formation.

 

[Reg]

Finally checked the knives my dad's Caroni today, & none of them were installed back-to-back like you describe. All are in the upside down "Y" formation.

As I said, "at least on MY sample" and I did get a jam-up within about a week after I "corrected" it.
It absolutely WAS that end knife that jammed it, VERY obvious and not that easy to untangle.
It might be a chance thing, e.g. perhaps it only flops off to the side at exactly the wrong moment when spinning down SOMETIMES.
Dunno, though I have speculated on it from time to time.
At least it is worth bearing in mind if you ever DO get a knife jam.

No need to mow here just yet, so I won't be lifting it to get pics or even see which end it is, b'sides the tractor that it usually follows around had its back hoe out put back on just today, so it might be a week before I get to peek under there.

 

[beppington]

As I said, "at least on MY sample" and I did get a jam-up within about a week after I "corrected" it.
It absolutely WAS that end knife that jammed it, VERY obvious and not that easy to untangle.
It might be a chance thing, e.g. perhaps it only flops off to the side at exactly the wrong moment when spinning down SOMETIMES.
Dunno, though I have speculated on it from time to time.
At least it is worth bearing in mind if you ever DO get a knife jam.

No need to mow here just yet, so I won't be lifting it to get pics or even see which end it is, b'sides the tractor that it usually follows around had its back hoe out put back on just today, so it might be a week before I get to peek under there.

When it did jam, how did you know it?

 

[Reg]

We may be talking about different knife styles.
On mine they are pairs of "L" shaped knives, with the horizontal leg drooped down a bit;
|
\
OK, maybe not THAT much.
That is paired with one that is flipped;
|
/
As a pair, maybe they form an inverted "Y"

As to how one knows what one knows....
Some combination of senses and deductive reasoning.
I did not record the time and date.

Anyway, reverting to;
|| with the middle of the roller in this -> direction
\\
has resulted in no further jams.

The jam that I got almost certainly resulted from the shackle and knife falling to the outside at spin down.
It probably required just the wrong combination of speed and position, perhaps combined with a bit of tilt, to happen.