Torch cart with blast panel?

[QRTRHRS]

So, the other day I see this new gas tank cart at work in the shipping recieving area with a large panel to seperate the two bottles. Plant engineer happened to walk over to check it out.

He explained that the panel was to isolate the two tanks should something go wrong and that all business's needed to upgrade. This was the least expensive one they could find at $750!

I replied, great! That means that your going to put the old cart on the in-house surplus auction? (The company puts excess items up for sealed bids.) Just so happens, I need a good cart and used suits me just fine.

Maybe the new requirement is a good idea but it is yet one more hoop for a business to jump through. Whatever, the auction area is getting full so I expect to see the notice any day now. Now, let's see, what to bid...

 

[monckywrench]

Overpriced and easy to duplicate if you want to mod your own cart.

I'd be all over old carts. They are also quite nice for inert gases which of course don't need the panel.

 

[QRTRHRS]

Overpriced and easy to duplicate if you want to mod your own cart.

I'd be all over old carts. They are also quite nice for inert gases which of course don't need the panel.

Maybe overpriced but for a business, building your own whatever however innoculous raises liability issues.

I don't know that I have ever heard of tank issues happening on the cart. I have worked with plenty of bottled gases that though isolated in their own cabinet would readily take out the whole block if something went wrong.

 

[crash325]

First off the Rule is Stupid - Probably written by someone that knows nothing about welding.

#2 $750 For a welding cart is plumb out of sight. Can't think of any way to build one that would cost that much.

Sure would like to see a picture of that cart.

 

[Sublifer]

First off the Rule is Stupid - Probably written by someone that knows nothing about welding.

#2 $750 For a welding cart is plumb out of sight. Can't think of any way to build one that would cost that much.

Sure would like to see a picture of that cart.

Ditto.

And if you didn't want to make your own for liability reasons you could hire a local welding shop to make the modification. That way should you need to (and I can't see a panel in between ever making a difference) you would have someone external to point the finger to. And it might cost what $100 at most for the modification...

 

[QRTRHRS]

Sure would like to see a picture of that cart.

Not sure where the company purchased this one from but you can see pictures of them in the McMaster-Carr catalog. Some of them are over a grand! A quick search should show you plenty of examples.

 

[monckywrench]

There are plenty of pics of that style cart all over the internet, and the OSHA regs referencing the barrier can be downloaded off their site.

All the barrier would do is deflect flame from impinging on the opposite cylinder, but buying time is no bad thing.

The silly pricing is a bit much.

 

[ray66v]

All the barrier would do is deflect flame from impinging on the opposite cylinder

It would seem that a piece of ordinary tile backer board could do that.

I have used it for all kinds of fire, and heat proofing.

 

[Haywire]

I would say that the price reflects the cost of the liability insurance that the building company is buying to cover a product like that. You buy instead of build to deflect liability. You're paying through the nose for them to assume that liability.

Ian

 

[Sublifer]

I would say that the price reflects the cost of the liability insurance that the building company is buying to cover a product like that. You buy instead of build to deflect liability. You're paying through the nose for them to assume that liability.

Ian

Seriously though, who is going to sue their cart manufacturer if their O/A rig blows up? It is a safety aid but it cannot prevent stupidity or accidents.

I can see a judge laughing this out of court... "Your client had an explosion in their building and you want to sue the cart manufacturer? LMFAO! :laughing: What about the pencil manufacturer, are you going to bring them in next? :laughing: " - end mock quote

 

[ray66v]

Seriously though, who is going to sue their cart manufacturer if their O/A rig blows up? It is a safety aid but it cannot prevent stupidity or accidents.

I can see a judge laughing this out of court... "Your client had an explosion in their building and you want to sue the cart manufacturer? LMFAO! :laughing: What about the pencil manufacturer, are you going to bring them in next? :laughing: " - end mock quote

Standard practice today is to sue everyone who even remotely is involved in an accident.

This is because lawyers know businesses, and insurance companies will generally pay them a ransom to make it go away, rather than spending good money money defending it.

This slippery slope of course has led to more suits, but many companies have a public image to be concerned about, especially considering how things travel on the internet. So, they pay the hush money to avoid the greater cost of bad publicity.

 

[Gary Fowler]

The main reason for the huge cost is likely the cost of the steel which OSHA requires it to be 1/4" thick to meet the requirements for the fire barrier. Adding that much more weight to a bottle cart might require stronger axles and tires and beefed up frame also. I dont think liability is a big issue with regard to the pricing, just material and labor costs plus transportation with all the extra cost now for trucking due to fuel cost. It all adds up to bite the final consumer in the rear.

 

[Sublifer]

The main reason for the huge cost is likely the cost of the steel which OSHA requires it to be 1/4" thick to meet the requirements for the fire barrier. Adding that much more weight to a bottle cart might require stronger axles and tires and beefed up frame also. I dont think liability is a big issue with regard to the pricing, just material and labor costs plus transportation with all the extra cost now for trucking due to fuel cost. It all adds up to bite the final consumer in the rear.

Ray is probably right, me thinks. I see where you are coming from Gary and there is some of that but I still don't see more than $250 labor and materials if that. Though it could be greed just capitalizing on this new requirement...

 

[vwnotrunning]

Some of the cost may be to get the UL testing and having a pretty label attached!

 

[lostcause]

so if it's a 1/4" plate is it just at the top by the valve, or is it full height? at full height that's a lot of added weight. carts are already heavy with two bottles on them. adding another 20-40 lbs ought to lead to another lawsuit when someone gets crushed under one because the added weight made it too top heavy to support when moving. i so love safety regulations that have nothing to do with safety but everything to do with money. that was sarcasm in case you didn't catch it.

as another poster noted, i'd think a flame retardant fiber would be a better choice. deliberately adding steel that is only to be utilized in a catastrophic failure is more like adding extra shrapnel.

 

[crash325]

I looked at the carts on the net. They all had 4 wheels and looked like more of a pain in the butt than practical.

Then I looked up the Gov regulations. As normal a convoluted mess of stupidity. Just about everything we had done for the 75 or so years is unsafe. Yup, I gave up reading them before they ran out of rules. Sum of the rules are real close to being a joke.

 

[Big Wave D]

I would say that the price reflects the cost of the liability insurance that the building company is buying to cover a product like that. You buy instead of build to deflect liability. You're paying through the nose for them to assume that liability. Ian

BINGO! Give that man a prize.

Same for aviation. Same part at your automotive store is $3.24, put it on your general aviation aircraft and now it's $29.63

Somebody is going to pay, if that plane crashes. They are just covering their liability costs.

Your local fab shop may not be to eager to slap that divider on your old style cart. Don't know of anyone that likes to go a few rounds with OSHA. Any frackace with them takes deep pockets.

 

[Sublifer]

BINGO! Give that man a prize.

Same for aviation. Same part at your automotive store is $3.24, put it on your general aviation aircraft and now it's $29.63

Somebody is going to pay, if that plane crashes. They are just covering their liability costs.

Your local fab shop may not be to eager to slap that divider on your old style cart. Don't know of anyone that likes to go a few rounds with OSHA. Any frackace with them takes deep pockets.

I'd trust the quality of the local weld shop a hundred times over the cr@p they charge $1000 for that was likely built by under-paid and lesser-skilled Chinese workers. Try getting OSHA to sue a weld shop claiming the Chinese made cart is better quality. I don't think they'd do it. A cracker jack lawyer would frickin go to town on OSHA and embarrass the heck out of them.

Have some pride and stick up for what is right.

 

[monckywrench]

Seems the main purpose of the barrier is "storage".

Unless a site manager can document that gas cylinders had been used in the previous 24 hours, it is better, and less costly, to ensure any carts holding gas cylinders on site meet the OSHA specifications.

Hand-Truckin'

 

[Big Wave D]

I'd trust the quality of the local weld shop a hundred times over the cr@p they charge $1000 for that was likely built by under-paid and lesser-skilled Chinese workers.

Totally agree. Not trying to imply anything about using one's local shop. (I would take there work over foreign as well. :thumbsup I just don't know that they want the liability hanging over their heads either.

You are quite correct. Try and sue some business in China. Good luck with that. They always go after Wal-Mart and the like whenever they sell a bad product that was made in China and sold here. I don't hear of them putting some Chinese firm out of business because they made faulty or contaminated products.