8N 12V Conversion - Points issue

[fibrostic]

So I finished my 12v conversion. Getting a great crank when i start, good voltage on the new alternator, and the battery seems to be charging nicely off of it. Worked great for about 20 minutes, then the tractor died (of course in the middle of a field where i was taking it on a victory lap). I wasnt getting a spark at the points, checked and rechecked the gap, and will get an occasional orange spark. Not the bright blue it used to be. when you hit both sides with a screwdriver lots of sparks. So.... from reading on here, i may have a bad coil, probably burnt the points, and while i am in there why not replace the condensor.
Couple of questions. With replacing the below parts (coil specifically), can i take the resistor out of the line? It is flimsy and already chipping and just feels cheap. if not, is there a better one i can put in line?


part list of what i think i need. (NAPA)
Coil - MPE IC14SB
Condensor - ECH FA66
Points - CS753

 

[Soundguy]

Can I assume that this is a side mount distribuitor, round coil, and 5 nipple distribuitor cap ( not a front mount, sqaure coil, and 4 nipple cap? )

if it is the side mount, here are some part numbers from napa that will fit at the bottom of the post.

but yeah, the coil IC14sb is correct for 12v and NO resistor.. points and condensor are correct as well.

if you are currently running an ic14sb with a resistor.. that is the source of your problem.

gap on points and plugs are .025

if you have the ic14sb and are using a resistor, try jumping from bat hot to the coil and see if she magically has good spark and starts.. if so.. you know what you need to do

post back if you have a front mount.. / have more questions

soundguy



Side-Mount Distributor: 8n thru 4 cyl thousand series
Points:
NAPA #CS749
NAPA HEAVY DUTY PIERCED (ventilated) #CS753
Standard Ignition #FD-8081
Standard Ignition Blue Streak #FD-8081X (Premium)
Condensor:
NAPA #FA66
Standard Ignition #FD-75
Standard Ignition Blue Streak #FD75X (Premium)
Rotor:
NAPA #FA67
Standard Ignition #FD-108
Distributor Cap:
NAPA #FA352
Standard Ignition #FD-128

 

[fibrostic]

Correct assumption, I have a side mount. I will install the new coil, points, and condensor this evening. Hopefully that will solve the problem.

 

[Soundguy]

if the old coil is a ic14sb.. no need for a coil.. the resistor is killing the spark.

be sure to jumper test the ignition switch.. new switch can be junk and block current flow..

soundguy

 

[pat32rf]

I always thought that the ceramic ballast resistor was there to prolong the coil and point life, but bypassed while starting????

 

[Soundguy]

the front mount N sent power thru a ballast resistor that had a thermal coeficient.. when cold, ( at startup ), resistance was low, after starting, the resistor warmed up quickly, and it's resistance went up, thus reducing current.

NO BYPASSING.. .. not on that system anyway.

by the time the 65+ blue gassers came out, i believe there was resistor wire in the ignition ckt, and during starting it was bypassed for 12v to the still 6v coil.. but not back on the N series.

soundguy

 

[fibrostic]

So ........ tractor ran great for two days, yesterday the battery was dead, I figured it is draining some place but I charged it back up and put off finding the short till this weekend. This morning battery dead again and now it faulta the.charger and when I try to jump it off the truck the starter engages without the ignition button pressed or key on. Help?

 

[Soundguy]

charging it up without finding the short was a bad move.

retrace ALL the wires.

post back

soundguy

 

[fibrostic]

All connections look good, nothing is loose. What is the beat way to check for a short with a volt meter?

 

[Soundguy]

forget the volt meter, disconnect the battery and use the ohm or continuity function.

soundguy

 

[mmurphy]

Did you forget the diode?

 

[Soundguy]

sounds like he forgot a switch AND a diode if it goes dead when setting, AND tries to start when he hooks the battery up...

that or the diode and the starter solenoid wire is hitting ground..

soundguy

 

[fibrostic]

OK, i will check the contunity of the wires when i get home from work, but the more i think about it... I am wondering if it is a solenoid issue (that would be causing both problems). I simply took the sloenoid off the old starter, but am thinking from what i have read in these forms that i should have gotten a new solenoid. Currenlty there is only one post and both the battery wire and the starter wire are hooked together. The more i think about it the more odd this seems to me. Does it matter what solenoid i put on this, i was just going to walk into napa and ask for their opinion, but seems like you may have a better recomendation.

I also started the tractor, while it was 6volt with a 12volt jump from a tractor ( i since have learned this was a terrible idea) do i need to replace the voltage regulator, or since it is now 12v this is not involved anymore.


ummm Diode? Where/What is the diode. My wiring looks like the one in the diagram for a single wire alternator locate at the folowing link. http://www.myfordtractors.com/12volt04.shtml

 

[mmurphy]

How-To's

I do not quite no where you are on wiring skills or what type of altenator you went with. Here is a good site for the info you may need. You will even find Soundguy with his excellent knowledge on there.

 

[Soundguy]

OK, i will check the contunity of the wires when i get home from work, but the more i think about it... I am wondering if it is a solenoid issue (that would be causing both problems). I simply took the sloenoid off the old starter, but am thinking from what i have read in these forms that i should have gotten a new solenoid. Currenlty there is only one post and both the battery wire and the starter wire are hooked together. The more i think about it the more odd this seems to me. Does it matter what solenoid i put on this, i was just going to walk into napa and ask for their opinion, but seems like you may have a better recomendation.

I also started the tractor, while it was 6volt with a 12volt jump from a tractor ( i since have learned this was a terrible idea) do i need to replace the voltage regulator, or since it is now 12v this is not involved anymore.


ummm Diode? Where/What is the diode. My wiring looks like the one in the diagram for a single wire alternator locate at the folowing link. Ford Tractor 12 Volt Conversion Free Wiring Diagrams 8N and NAA

if the solenoid you took off has 1 post.. this is a very challanged machine.

it shoulod have been 3 posts.. 2 big ones, one little one.

OF COURSE if you have the starter and battery wire ALL jumbled up together the starter is going to spin when you install the battery!!!!!!!

the 3 post solenoid, as mentioned, has a bat post, starter post, and the grounding switch post. that lil post has to face the tractor.

a napa equivalent is an st53 it's a 6v 3 post solenoid. ( will work on 12v )

the big thumb switch on the trans top is merely a ground, it is what activates the solenoid, which has it's coil internally hot from the bat connection.

a generic 'car' solenoid will not work directly in this application.



asking napa's opinion is like asking your concrete drive what type of sealer it wants.. probably get a more intelegen answer out of the driveway than the conter person...

 

[fibrostic]

So not sure what I was thinking with the solenoid. It was and is a standard 3 post model, the little post with the ignition wire is toward the tractor, so when i was doing a quick once over i missed that connection. Ignition wire on the small post, then the starter terminal, and the battery/ammeter terminal. I think i found the problem though. The ignition switch wire was crimped in the plastic sleve but had pulled out from the metal connection when i installed the switch in the dash (for lack of a better word) Once this was corrected, things started to work correctly again. I put the battery on a charger all last night to make sure it was full again, but my (hopefully) final question is, if you pull the ignition wire would that alone cause battery drain? The wire wasnt grounded out, just suspended in the plastic sleve.

 

[jinman]

It wasn't on an 8N, but I had a 6V starter solenoid weld itself internally so that it wouldn't release the starter when using a 12V battery. I had to pull a battery terminal to make it stop. I think normal starting with 12V will not harm the solenoids, but prolonged cranking at 12V may cause them to heat up internally if the solenoid is old and maybe not making perfect internal contact.

 

[Soundguy]

that 3rd terminal on a N solenoid needs ground.. not 'ignition' power.

the wire should be coming from the trans mounted thumb switch.

unless you have a non oem wireing steup and different solenoid you havn't told us about?

before any more diagnoses can be made.. need to know your wireing and parts

soundguy

 

[BondoBuilder]

I am in the process of rewiring a 12 volt converted 8n.

This tractor has a front mount, square coil, with a 4 nipple cap. On the back side of the cap there is a male terminal. Does this terminal need a wire connecting to a resistor? From there, does the resistor need to wire to the ignition?

Thanks!

 

[Soundguy]

are you saying the cap has been converted to use an external round can coil.. ie a 5th tower has been added?
in any case, resistors, if needed, go between the key switch and the coil.

if it can use a round can coil.. get a real 12v coil like a napa 1c14sb, and do away witht he square coil.

if square coil only, then get the 2.5 ohm version and use it with the oem dash resistor