Build your own mulcher

[tonyoz]

After seeing what Mulcherguy has done to a C87 has inspired me to start this thread.
For a long time now I have thought that there has to be a better machine than what I currently have with better power, better parts availability at better prices, better built and better to service and repair.
Now I am not knocking anyone particular manufacturer but to get them all to lift their game in what they produce,for example a company near where I live has a PT400 and it had a problem under the cab. The owner was bitching like mad because the cab had to be removed to repair it so it had to go to his workshop-1 day lost, remove the cab-3 days,make the repair-1day, refit the cab-3days,return the machine to site-1day. So he lost 8 days work because the manufacturer didn't think to fit a tipover cab which would be simple to do.
My latest episode was to remove the hydraulic pumps from the C140-32 man hrs then refit them 32 man hrs. A Cat D10 transmission can be swapped in 8 hrs so why can't the manufacturers of these machines think a lot more about what happens after these machines leave the factory or don't they give a dam?
So looking forward my guess is to build your own which I would love to do but I'm to darn old (in my 60's) but you younger fellers should have a go at like Mulcherman and this bloke, TreetaMulching & Stumping, Land Clearing, Tree Removal in Rotorua New Zealand. Tre-Etas
In conclusion,here is my idea of a mulcher and please forgive my computer skills but I hope you get the idea of what I would like to achieve. It would have a tipover cab and bonnet so the entire length of the tractor can be exposed for servicing or repair, a cab with good visiablty and no front door for timber to jam shut etc,etc.
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[yellowdogsvc]

Looks tough but heavy. I'm not as smart as you guys but I feel the same way. A guy I talked to a few years back decided to build his own bi-directional tractor from an existing frame. He ended up with something like 200 pto hp in a 15k lb machine and out cut some of the larger machines using a cimaf style head.

I have always been impressed in the specs that Supertrak puts out. I'd like to see them upfit other machines. I would also like to see someone come out with a mower with motor (bigger than the old FAE 100 hp deutz) or a power pack system that you can connect and disconnect so you can use your carrier for other things. I've got some ideas on that but don't know where to start..

I guess you have to ask yourself if it's worth it. With a commercially produced machine, if it burns up, gets stolen, falls off a cliff, etc., you can replace it with a few mods. Rebuilding your own machine could take weeks or months depending on your free time allotment.
That's how I look at it but I'm not a full time mulcher and need a machine that is dual purpose to serve my other customer's needs. I guess if you were extremely handy and had the resources, designing your own machine would be the way to go.

 

[fishfactor]

I agree. I like mulcherman's creation. Big power in a small package is the way to go if you can get the undercarriage, etc to hold up. Our GT25 will turn anything to tooth picks quick, but get in a tight area where you have to go around a bunch of keeper trees and things get slow.

I look at the lamtrac 6125 and see possibilities for a larger power plant. Maybe bump it up to 250HP or so. If I had the time and resources I would go for it. The carrier is 4'11" wide. Just imagine the power to width ratio with a 72" head.

 

[tonyoz]

The attached photo was arrived at using a photo of a Cat D4 dozer but you could use any machine as a base
The idea of using a Cat machine as a base is the world wide availability of parts. I never decided what engine would be used but would be over 200hp. Heck a D3 size tractor may be good enough to start with. The Tre-eta machine started it's life as a Bell Feller Buncher.
Just think of the good and bad things about the machines you have and get a wish list happening here so the manufacturers can see some consensus of opinion and just may be get some vastly improved equipment out of it.:thumbsup:

 

[mulcherguy]

Hey Tony I am glad you posted this. I would like to hear some input from owner operators and mechanics that have to work on these things. I totally agree with everything you said about servicability. I cant think of a more maintenance intensive machine then a mulcher. As we all know keeping wood dust and chips from accumulating is critical if we wish to stay in business. I remember back in the 90's there was a monster mulcher called the Ecomeca made in France that got run out of Canada because they kept on catching fire....on fire hazard mitigation projects! Any inaccessible areas on a mulcher are not only a maintenance problem but a fire waiting to happen.
I hope that this thread grows as contractors come across it so we can literally design a dream machine right here!
I think the market has matured alot in the 30,000lb + class but there is still a real need for a compact machine that is powerful and reliable enough to consistently ensure the owner makes a good profit.
If the mulching drum width is 5 feet then I believe it should be able to produce at least 50% as much finished product as a 10 foot wide 550 hp machine. Also once the machine has enough power to the head, other high demand implements can be attached. I built a reverse rotation 800rpm stump grinder that used cheap asphalt grinding teeth. It was 12 inches wide and blew apart stumps in seconds down to 18 inches. The chips were alot bigger then a conventional stump grinder but customers did not care if it was sawdust or match book size chips. This attachment helped keep the compact machines busy full time and more importantly earned significant profit. I could bid the job the same as a T275 stump grinder and finish the job in half the time. I should be clear that these stumps were aspen, birch and spruce. I would think a conventional side sweep stump grinder would outperform my home built setup in large maple and oak. In the East the profit difference would decline.
One question I would like to ask other contractors is what would you prefer:
A loader arm style or front mount compact track mulcher? My personal preference is the front mount....as long as it has enough power to mulch a tree lying on the ground.

 

[F250DSLPWR]

Hello,
I am not in the mulcher business. I have however considered building my own mulcher since I have about 400 acres of cedar (ash juniper) that needs to be removed and I have more time and fabrication skills than money - LOL. Anyway, What would be wrong with utilizing a wheel loader and converting it?
Is there one brand / model of wheel loader that would be better suited for conversion than another?
I realize that when you do this for a living you run high hp machines, whats about the minimum hp required to run a machine and mulching head?
With a wheel loader I can see versatility in using it for other chores such as droping the mulching head and using a grappel / root rake to push the cedars over and out of the ground (I do this now for small trees) with my tractor. Then having the ability to push and pile the brush for mulching or burning.

 

[yellowdogsvc]

Hello,
I am not in the mulcher business. I have however considered building my own mulcher since I have about 400 acres of cedar (ash juniper) that needs to be removed and I have more time and fabrication skills than money - LOL. Anyway, What would be wrong with utilizing a wheel loader and converting it?
Is there one brand / model of wheel loader that would be better suited for conversion than another?
I realize that when you do this for a living you run high hp machines, whats about the minimum hp required to run a machine and mulching head?
With a wheel loader I can see versatility in using it for other chores such as droping the mulching head and using a grappel / root rake to push the cedars over and out of the ground (I do this now for small trees) with my tractor. Then having the ability to push and pile the brush for mulching or burning.

I'm down the road from you and as you know with cedar, as soon as it dries out, it's a fire hazard and easily ignites. The problem you would have with a wheel loader is lack of hydraulic power and areas not designed to accumulate cedar needles. Fixing that would take some trial and error.

The platform is big enough but I don't think the motor is big enough and probably the auxiliary hydraulics are not up to par especially with the cooling. In most of the loaders that would fit in the woods you would probably need a powerpack or motor, pump, and cooling upgrade like Mulcherguy did with his Rayco chassis. I leased a Cat 928 for awhile which was, I think, a 26k lb machine it was only 125 hp.

 

[mulcherguy]

YellowDog is spot on with his reply to your questions.
Perhaps the easiest way to go with a wheel loader configuration would be to find an old Hydro Axe. They are already set up with a bigger engine, pumps and cooling required to mulch. You could also buy a bucket to use when you are not mulching. Converting a standard wheel loader to be capable of mulching would be a very expensive proposition but certainly not impossible. If your work is mainly small cedars the rotating blade style mower may be the most economical method of taking the brush down to ground level. I am not very familiar with Texas vegetation but smaller stuff can be difficult to mulch with a horizontal axis head. It tends to wrap around the drum and tear apart rather than chip. I used to tell customers it was like hundreds of little brake bands wrapping around your rotor. Razor sharp blades work better in bushes with multiple stems but are not a good choice if your land is near homes or even roads. Yellow Dog will know the best method of removing your particular growth. I thought I might suggest HydoAxe as a good place to start if you have uses for a wheel loader beyond mulching. I recall one selling for 25000 at auction up here. It had a fire in the engine compartment and the guy that bought it put a used engine in it and bought a mulcher head to replace the mower it came with.

 

[yellowdogsvc]

I've seen a number of hydroaxes for sell lately. They are underpowered compared to some of the newer mulchers but they do a good job on our "cedars" which can get up to 20" diameter. Beyond that, a lot of them are save trees. I generally try and save tree 15" and up but can chip up to 20". Most trees are 10" - 12". Cedar is a soft wood but stringy and there are so many long limbs to wrap around a drum.

I know it's a bit off subject but to elaborate on F250's post, cedars are multi-trunked and prolific. It's not uncommon to have a multi-trunked tree with a 15" base and many 10" limbs tapering down to a few inches with another tree spaced just a few inches away. These trees grow to 30' frequently and nearly as wide. Cedar has a combustible sap and the needles, when dried out (as well as the bark) make excellent combustibles so tight machine compartments is important. Cedar forest fires are ferocious.. luckily we often have humidity in the hot months when it gets windy or we'd have more frequent infernos.
The trees below are "medium" sized to small with the occasional "large" tree as far as cedars go.

the more horsepower the better but for jobs like I posted below, only a narrow machine would have worked.

 

[tonyoz]

One question I would like to ask other contractors is what would you prefer:
A loader arm style or front mount compact track mulcher? My personal preference is the front mount....as long as it has enough power to mulch a tree lying on the ground.

Front or dozer style arms for me,the reason,(1)At times I have to work on roadsides or around buildings and I find that there is less flying debris with a tree lying on the ground.(2) With the tree on the ground I am mulching along the grain which is more productive than going across as I would be on a standing tree.

 

[mulcherguy]

I agree with you for all the same reasons. It is definitely more efficient to rip then to crosscut with relatively dull carbide teeth. I asked because there are so many sales guys out there claiming that the loader is more productive because of the cut the tree off 12 feet up and mulch down ability. My biggest reason for not selling loader style mulchers is the safety concern especially for novice operators. On the rare occasion that a tooth or holder breaks off in mid air the result could be deadly if it broke through the cab. Not a likely scenario but not something I was willing to risk. I have seen some skid steers set up with 1/4 inch lexan windows, no screen and operators happily rocking back and forth on a tree trunk 12 feet up. I tried to tell the owner he should upgrade his doors to 1/2 inch lexan but he told me it was impossible for a tooth to come toward he cab. The spray from the rotor made a clearly visible pattern up the front window.
On another note, that photo from Yellowdog is exactly what a mulching job should look like! Very nice result produced by an operator that clearly takes pride in his work!

 

[cat 297c]

Sounds like we all need to get together and start our own line of mulching equipment

 

[mulcherguy]

In all honesty I have planned all along to eventually get back into this business with a focus on compact mulchers designed by owner operators for owner operators.
Mass producing high powered machines that are purchased by large companies and operated by novice operators have to be built to survive poor maintenance and abuse.
I have been directly involved in the design of several popular large mulchers and never was able to build what I wanted, due to the mass production considerations of component cost and "idiot proofing" them.
Putting big power in a small chassis requires the operator to keep the rads clean, watch the temp gauges and change the oil when it is due. These are simple tasks that owner operators will do consistently.
Back in the early 2000's it was fairly easy to turn a profit with a mediocre mulcher. Now that there is plenty of competition it is becoming difficult for smaller mulching companies to turn a profit. If an O/O wants to stay busy full time he needs to have an edge (no pun intended!) over the competition. A more reliable more productive machine is the key to that edge. A machine that can do twice the work in one shift can charge 15% less and earn 35% more. Of course this only works if the operating costs remain constant.
I think there are now enough experienced mulcher contractors in the business to justify introducing a reliable high powered machine. Their experience has taught them that torque to the head is money in the bank come invoice day.
The biggest hurdle in design will be the latest emissions regulations. Since I wasn't selling them, I was able to use a 12 valve mechanical pump engine in mine. It has been 10 years since the first one and it is still mulching up a storm. I don't know if an electronic controlled, cooled EGR , Tier 3b engine will be as reliable? Any thoughts on that?

 

[DIRTROAD]

The biggest hurdle in design will be the latest emissions regulations. Since I wasn't selling them, I was able to use a 12 valve mechanical pump engine in mine. It has been 10 years since the first one and it is still mulching up a storm. I don't know if an electronic controlled, cooled EGR , Tier 3b engine will be as reliable? Any thoughts on that?

The mechanical engines are definitely superior to these new ones. I've been trying to tell people for years that these smaller high horsepower engines are worthless. Why would someone want to put a turbo on a small displacement block to make more horsepower when you could make the same power with half the effort from a larger displacement engine and then you would have the proper torque also.

If you retrofit an earlier machine could you get around the new emissions?
Then you would have to sell it as a refurbished "used" machine. Just an idea.

I would love to build my own mulcher!!

 

[yellowdogsvc]

On the rare occasion that a tooth or holder breaks off in mid air the result could be deadly if it broke through the cab. Not a likely scenario but not something I was willing to risk. I have seen some skid steers set up with 1/4 inch lexan windows, no screen and operators happily rocking back and forth on a tree trunk 12 feet up. I tried to tell the owner he should upgrade his doors to 1/2 inch lexan but he told me it was impossible for a tooth to come toward he cab. The spray from the rotor made a clearly visible pattern up the front window.
On another note, that photo from Yellowdog is exactly what a mulching job should look like! Very nice result produced by an operator that clearly takes pride in his work!

thanks for the compliment..
I used to mulch with 1/4" lexan. It was rated to 300 mph impact but I didn't trust it with the mulcher in the air. For wood debris, richochet rocks, etc., it was fine but I once got wrapped up in a barbed wire fence. A piece of hot metal hit the window with such force that literally burned a hole about 1/8" into the 1/4" thick lexan. The mower was about 4' off the ground. I have had my wiper ripped off from pieces of wood with the mower 5' off the ground so I prefer to mulch low to the ground.
When I ran a Tushhogg, I had multiple teeth rip from the tooth pockets and fly so far I never found them. That was scary but luckily I was in a field and the mower was on the ground.

There are a number of guys mulching with glass doors. I have talked to at least two. It's just a matter of time.

Here's a suggestion for guys building their own doors for a custom mulcher.. Lexan with peel away layers. Doesn't Nascar use something like that?

 

[fishfactor]

Here's a suggestion for guys building their own doors for a custom mulcher.. Lexan with peel away layers. Doesn't Nascar use something like that?

Our Bobcat dealer uses them on their rental machine, or at least did at one time. I would think that would get pretty expensive because most of the objects would have enough force to damage all of the layers.

We have a guy polish ours out every few months. He starts with 600 or so, then works up to 5000 grit, then finishes with a buffer and polishing compound. Looks like glass until we bang it up again.

 

[mulcherguy]

I'm pretty impressed with MR10 Marguard. It has lasted for many years on our machines. Except for a few gouges it is still like glass, no hazing or fine scratching at all. I cant be sure if it is the plexus we clean/treat it with or the MR10 itself, but it has been a very pleasant surprise. Up here in the Northern latitudes the sun is always on the horizon in the winter, so it is critical to have optimum clarity. The only reason I have ever changed it was for melted gouges caused by hot metal flying off barbed wire!

 

[F250DSLPWR]

Thank you for the feedback on the mulcher idea.

 

[DIRTROAD]

Here's that other video Rob. I hope I got the right one.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tfwxxFBT90s]200hp Compact Forestry Mower mulching stumps and trees - YouTube[/ame]

 

[redprospector]

One question I would like to ask other contractors is what would you prefer:
A loader arm style or front mount compact track mulcher? My personal preference is the front mount....as long as it has enough power to mulch a tree lying on the ground.

I prefer the loader arms, probably because that's all I've ever ran. I think that grinding the tree off at 10 or 12 feet is probably a little quicker if your machine is under powered. Which is why I am really interested in this concept. I'd like to have a compact machine that was able to efficiently mulch a 6" or 7" tree laying on the ground.

Andy