YM 1700 poor starting

[nickfish]

Hi I have a YM 1700 which was a great starter when I bought it last year. Would fire up at the slightest turn. I left it standing and the battery went flat. Then i found the starter was burned out. I replaced the starter and now it spins over fine, it coughs black smoke as it tries to fire but it won't start (unless I hook it up to my truck with jump cables to make it really spin(.

I've tried bleeding it. Fitted a new filter. Lots of fuel comes out from the filter belled screw and pump bleed screw but not much from the injectors (should I take the bolt right out at the injector?)

Does anyone have any thoughts about how to make it start easily again. It has no heater plugs - just relies on compression and fuel. The diesel in the tank is from last year would that be a problem. The filter was pretty yucky when I changed it.

any help gratefully received

cheers

nick

 

[winston1]

Air filter good and clean?

Does your 1700 have compression release?

What ambient temperatures are you seeing there?

 

[nickfish]

filter was new when I bought it.
it does have compression lever which I use to get it spinning over fast then drop it to engage engine it puffs smoke but doesn't catch unless I use another battery and let it really spin.
but that's impractical out in the woods/field.
it's 10 degrees C now, 50 degrees f so it should be okl

thanks for your interest

 

[winston1]

With the added information and knowing it was cranking good a year ago would indicate nothing wrong with the compression. I would lean toward contaminated fuel being your problem.

 

[nickfish]

when you say contaminated fuel does that mean by water - or just old?
and would that make it hard to star? Like I said it will go eventually with an extra battery boost and runs fine when its going it's just the starting that's got so hard.
would you suggest I drain out all the fuel and start again and then bleed the system through again including the nuts at the injectors

cheers

Nick

 

[winston1]

I doubt year old diesel by itself would be the problem. You stated the filter was yucky. That is a good sign of contamination. Always best to look at the easy fix items first. Before I started looking at injectors or anything mechanical I would just want to know I had a good clean fuel supply. If there is doubt about the fuel condition what about pulling the line to the filter, drain it in a clean container, take a flashlight peek in the tank and go from there.

Does the tractor start easy once warmed up?

 

[nickfish]

again thanks for your help.

once she's warm she starts fine. I took the pipe off the filter housing when I changed the filter and did as you suggested and ran some fuel off. It looked fine to me. I was going to drain the whole tank but thought better of it because the fuels was so clear.

i guess it does make sense to start afresh. when i did bleed it before I didn't undone the collar nuts on the injectors but instead loosened the bolt on top. I gather through looking at something on youtube i should have undone the collars, is that correct? both together. would it be worth trying another bleed first?

 

[winston1]

If it is running fine, cranking fine after warm up, I would think the system is well bled and fuel must be ok.

Whole thing is mysterious to me. Hard to understand it cranking fine a year ago and now it won't. Especially after cranking several times and running.

Let's hope a sure nuff guru jumps in here and tells us what is wrong.

 

[Ginormous]

again thanks for your help.

once she's warm she starts fine. I took the pipe off the filter housing when I changed the filter and did as you suggested and ran some fuel off. It looked fine to me. I was going to drain the whole tank but thought better of it because the fuels was so clear.

i guess it does make sense to start afresh. when i did bleed it before I didn't undone the collar nuts on the injectors but instead loosened the bolt on top. I gather through looking at something on youtube i should have undone the collars, is that correct? both together. would it be worth trying another bleed first?

Nick,

I also bought a YM1700 last year; sounds just like yours. I was also having some starting issues this year. I worked on it, and ended up fixing 3 things that I think were issues:

1) I cleaned electrical connections of corrosion (like the ground from the battery to the frame.) I think this was limiting the power to the starter.

2) My starter was on its last legs. I replaced it.

3) I had a broken bleed screw at the fuel line "banjo" fitting. I think that was slowly letting air into the fuel line. If I could get it started, it would run fine and would re-start unless I let it sit for a while and gave it a chance to let air in.

Last year I also replaced a piece of fuel line that had dry rotted.

If I were you, I would try #1 as it's easy. My next guess would probably be a slow fuel line leak that's letting in a little air...

Cheers

 

[nickfish]

when i tried to rebleed it and took the collar nuts off the right hand side never really even dripped. left hand was ok.

might try starting to bleed back from the start again

also the new starter motor is getting very hot.

got me stumped.
n

 

[Ginormous]

when i tried to rebleed it and took the collar nuts off the right hand side never really even dripped. left hand was ok.

might try starting to bleed back from the start again

also the new starter motor is getting very hot.

got me stumped.
n

When you re-bleed, let a LOT come out at each step just to make double dog sure the air is out.

 

[284 International]

also the new starter motor is getting very hot
n

I think this is a clue. Remember that the heat produced by an electrical current increases as the square of the current: double the current, and you get four times as much heat. (Is that Lenz's law? Something like that.) The next one is Joule's law: We know that power equals voltage times current. Since the starter motor will try to pull the same power from the battery, as the voltage decreases the current goes up, generating more heat. If you burn your new starter up, you'll REALLY have a tough time starting it.

Since you have said you ran the battery flat and need another battery to make it spin rapidly, I you have starting circuit troubles. As suggested, clean and/or replace the battery cables and their attachment points. Get a known, good battery (which may mean a new one) and use that. Replace the gunky fuel filter, bleed the lines, and you should be in good shape. If the fuel is only a year old, it won't matter unless it is contaminated, but if clean, it will work fine.

Good luck!

 

[California]

Lots of fuel comes out from the filter belled screw and pump bleed screw but not much from the injectors ...

Does anyone have any thoughts about how to make it start easily again.

Note there are two bleed screws on the fuel filter plus one on the pump.

Experience dealers posting here recommend: Bleed the screw at filter input, then output, then pump input. No need to bleed at the output side of the pump.

For each screw, bled until no bubbles then close it and go on to the next one.

I doubt year-old fuel is bad.

 

[nickfish]

To be honest I'm not happy about the battery cables. the battery is new (six month old max) but the cables are very tight, no play to the battery. I could easily fit two new ones I guess. I am worried that the new starter is getting so hot and even a little smokey - which it does very quickly.

 

[nickfish]

after i've bled at the screws should i bleed at the injector collar nuts too. like I said one shows no fuel pumping through - or very, very little

many thanks by the way for al your help

 

[Ginormous]

If you're not getting a good drip from one of your lines at the injector, there's something wrong. I think when I took mine off, it was dripping about 1 drip per second while cranking the engine.

Definitely be careful not to crank the starter too long. The manual recommends "stopping for several minutes" after cranking for 10 seconds. I don't follow that advice, but I would let it cool a minute after cranking for 20 seconds.

 

[grainger12002]

as others have stated,check your connections,make sure it has a good ground and the cables are large enough to carry the voltage to the starter.

Best of luck

 

[California]

after i've bled at the screws should i bleed at the injector collar nuts too.

No, bleeding at the three bleeder screws upstream of the injector pump is all that is needed. Air beyond the pump will be forced out through the injectors by the pump.

 

[silvertramp]

Your cables may be bad. I had a cable catch fire in the middle while boosting a tractor. Turns out the battery was good, but the cable was all corroded under the insulation.
If you haven't done it, clean the frame down to shiny metal where the ground attaches.

 

[nickfish]

Thanks to everyone for your suggestions. I got it started! I think the problem was the earth as suggested. Soon as I cleaned it up and refitted the clamps, the speed at which it turned over was so much faster. I assumed it was a fuel issue and I did bleed it all again as suggested but the noise it makes turning over on the starter now is so much more positive I'm sure it was the earthing etc that did the trick

many thanks

Nick