Loader LS Loader Performance

[ozley]

Oz.. we were looking at 2 different ads. It has since been changed to the one you saw..

Thanks I thought that's thing where wrong with the ad.

 

[ozley]

Oz.. we were looking at 2 different ads. It has since been changed to the one you saw..

I am glad of that. I couldn't see us being that far off.

 

[boomer632]

In doing some searching, I found that the 2010 and older models have the LL4100 loader and the 2011 and up have the LL4101 loader. Might be something to that.. possibly different cylinder sizes? The LS site is kind of lame but it lists the LL4101 as the loader for the R4041 /R4047 tractors and the LL4100 loader for the R series tractors.

I havent had a heavy enough load on mine to pop the relief yet.. I did pull the rear tires off the ground when I was moving some wet fill for a friend. I have since loaded the rear tires with Rimguard.

 

[Short Game]

Yes, the 2011 41 and 47 HPs have larger bucket cylinders. It would be nice if LS did a recall on the R4010 and R4020 bucket cylinders and upgraded us to the current standard. Anything would be better than being that gutless on break-out force. Obviously they have noted the problem, but don't care to take that step for the 2010 buyers.

 

[KILWERBZZ]

I saw the ad and noticed that the cylinders were black on the loader and the grill guard is a cut down one piece. This peeked my curiosity and I think this is an end of year tractor with 2011/2012 parts. The 2012 LS CUTS from what I saw have curved loaders with black cylinders and no grill guard. This from the one dealer from New Brunswick, Canada. If you look at the TYM in the background with curved loader its cylinders are black also, but the TYM way back has color matched cylinders. Could LS be getting there loaders from TYM or could this dealer add aftermarket parts.
Farming equipment sale New Brunswick. LS Tractors, wagons, john deere, commercial mowers, hay feeders and more. New & used Kijiji Classifieds.
Kb BAKER

 

[wthastings]

I bought the 2011 LS R4041 with loader and front bucket attachments. I've used it to move dirt and dig ditches. I've found the the frame flexes so much that I have now sheered off the attachment bracket bolts 3 times. The dealer where I purchased it from has turned out to be no help what so ever. I am curious if anyone else has run into this problem. Its a little frustrating. Thanks

 

[Short Game]

...I have now sheered off the attachment bracket bolts 3 times.

Could you give me a better description of what bolts these are? Can you post a picture of them?

I believe you would have the LL4101 loader. I have the earlier LL4100. I doubt mine has the power to hurt itself.

 

[wthastings]

there is a large bracket on the underside of the tractor that the attachments slide into and lock the bolts that hold on the bracket are actually bolted into the engine block. i am unable to get pictures at this time due to my tractor being 2 1/2 hours away from where I live, but maybe I can find some pictures of what i am talking about online and post them.

 

[wthastings]

okay so I found one. Ironically its from the dealership where i bought the darn thing. It is the blue bracket you see under the tractor and the front of it bolts into the engine block. those are the bolts that are being sheered due to the flexing in the frame. i am not sure if it makes too much of a difference but i can't seem to remember whether mine is a R4041 or a R4047. Thats Monday for you.. Thanks

 

[Short Game]

Yes, I went out and looked at my R4010 and I thought you might be referring to those particular bolts. The R4010 is the 2010 version of the R4041. The only two differences between the two models I know of are the placement of the loader joystick and the size of the bucket cylinders. I will keep a close eye on those bolts now.

Those are pretty big bolts. Hard to imagine them shearing off. It definitely should not be happening.

 

[J_J]

How come you guys are not posting any pressure readings.

First, you have to know what the pumps max pressure is before adjusting the relief pressure.

If you would tee a 3000 psi hyd gage in the IN port , you can monitor, adjust reliefs and trouble shoot the hyd system.

What is your lift pressure compared to your curl pressure?

Do the lift and tilt cyl have the same bore size?

Is the relief going off when you try and curl?

You probably have regen when you shift the joy stick lever to the far right on the FEL valve.

When you shift the lever to the left, does the bucket curl with any load.

Can you curl down and lift the front of the tractor?

18,850 lbs push force on the curl down and 14,138 lbs of pull force on curl up.

What is the advertised curl up force?

Does the curl cyl fully extend over night, with the bucket raised?

I am surprised that the dealer does not demonstrate the full use of the tractor upon purchase. That would be the time to check the relief. It only take about 3 min to check the pressure.

Is the 3pt lever in the neutral position when doing loader work?

Your gage will tell you if you are in neutral.

 

[Short Game]

We talked about this a long time back, JJ. I put the dealer's gauge on it and the pressure was at the prescribed amount when roll-back side lifts the relief. The bucket cylinders on the 2010 are metric, and I can't tell what the inside dimension is. The outside of the can is 2.366" and the diameter of the rod is 1.179" witch looks to me like it will use up most of the inside diameter. There can't be much surface area on the weak side, the way it looks to me. So, how thick are the walls of those cylinders?

The lift cylinders are bigger.

Does the curl cyl fully extend over night, with the bucket raised?

No fade to speak of there.

Is the relief going off when you try and curl?

Only when there is weight on it. Granted, it will tilt back with a load of dirt. Just don't ask it for much more. Don't even think about breaking much out of a pile or bank without backing up to free the blade edge and lifting with the booms to get it loose.

Forward on the curl will lift the front of the tractor, but then, that is the strong side.

 

[J_J]

Can you see a mechanical disadvantage in the connecting point for the tilt cyl and the pivot pin at the bottom of the bucket. What is the difference in inches from the two points?

Can you post a photo of the side of the bucket showing the curl cyl connecting to the bucket.

The further these two points, the more force you have, but less dump angle.

Is there only one connection point for the cyl to the bucket?

Lift Capacity (@ Pivot Pin) lbs. (kg) 1150 lbs
Breakout Force (@ Pivot pin) 1740 lbs

Looking at the pictures on this site, I can see a big mechanical disadvantage in the shape or the lift arms and cyl placement.

http://www.lstractorsutah.com/new_galleria.asp?veh=171943

Larger cyl would help if they didn't hit the lift arm.

A smaller bucket would help also.

All their bragging figures are at the pivot pin.

 

[J_J]

Short Game,

At the point where you connect your curl cyl bracket to the bucket, is there another set of holes towards the top of the bucket? I can't really tell from the picture, but if there was another set of holes, you would have more force, but less dump angle.

You also mentioned something about the pressure around 2400 psi. Is that close to the hyd pump max pressure?

 

[Short Game]

If there was another hookup to increase the efficiency, I would have done that already. I sit and look at it and imagine trying to change it. Building my log forks took care of being able to lift a log of decent size. The bucket forks couldn't do diddly. The same bucket forks on my little Cub Cadet could lift/curl as much as my log forks.

I'll get some end-on pics of the bucket tomorrow.

 

[wthastings]

So gave up on the dealership and contacted LS themselves to deal with this issue. The guy was kind of an idiot and told me that I put the wrong sized bolts back into it. I laughed and told the guy that they were bolts that the dealership had to order specifically for the tractor. I felt like he thought I was an idiot. Thankfully I've given up on them trying to repair something that they aren't really going to do anything to except a quick and simple fix. Going to have it fixed by a guy that does tractor and hydrolic repairs and does a really good job. So hopefully when it is done the tractor will be strong in that area like it should be.. :thumbsup:

 

[Short Game]

So, I think these are your failing bolts. That right?

 

[Short Game]

JJ, here's the loader showing the pivot points.

Below is my old Cub Cadet 417 loader.

 

[slowzuki]

Two things:
1) Newer linkage style loaders don't usually have as strong roll back. The linkage increases the dump and rollback angle at the sacrifice of power at the ends of the travel. Its roughly the same in the middle. The rollback power is a common complaint in this style of loader, especially once you stack a q/a bracket on top. Coming from an IH 2250 loader (big sucker) to a Kubota LA853 I was disappointed until I tried a similar sized JD loader which felt about half as strong.

2) The loader brackets look a lot like Frey's style of bracket, and the loader is very similar too. Anyone know the actual manufacturer?

 

[wthastings]

Actually found some picutres of my tractor, it is the R4047. yes they are the bolts. I've had to tap them out because the heads snaped off. the only bad thing is that one on each side is difficult to reach with tools becasue the front tire gets in the way. had to actually take the front tires off one at a time to have the room to move around in there.