Loader LS Loader Performance

[DwightD123]

I bought my U5030C new in May. Does it have the new and improved cylinders? How can I tell? Thanks.

It is my understanding that the 2011 models increased the cylinder size. You could probably do some research but the best thing to do is pick some heavy crap up and see how it does.
I am continually impressed with mine. I did some scrap metal recovery on the farm today and I pulled out an old trailer and lifted it to the transport trailer...this thing was all angle iron and old steel...it was very heavy...I could not even lift the tongue on the trailer by hand when it was free and clear. Anyway I hope Short Game can get his working to his satisfaction because I am lifting some really heavy crap and laughing like a kid on a roller coaster when I do it.

 

[ozley]

Short Game is probably right in his assessment of the pressure, and the location of the tilt pins/tabs

If the loader was designed this way, then as Short Game said, that is unsatisfactory for his use.

The loader specs should have been stated, as most loaders have specs showing the lift force and the breakout force.

You can fool around with the relief setting if you know the pumps limit on psi.

Another option is to obtain a different loader bucket that better matches the desired capability, or build one to suit .

Larger cyl will help a whole lot . see below.

The mounting pins and distance from the cyl wall has to be just right. May be a problem.

Using 2500 psi, a 2 in cyl 1 in shaft, will develop a force of 7,864 lbs

-------------------3 in cyl, 1.5 in shaft, will develop a force of 17,671 lbs

As of 2010 they list the breakout and lift force here http://www.lstractorusa.com/attachments/attachments/front-end-loaders/loader-LL4100.html

 

[J_J]

Short Game,

Does the specs on the LL4100 equate to anything you experience.

2500 lbs at the lift pins, and 4300 lbs on the breakout force.

If the relief goes off, that means that you have the pressure, and if you can tilt the load so it is balanced on top of the pivot pins, then it should be able to lift up to the 2500 lbs as specified. The one thing that will prevent that from happening, is the pressure lost in the cyl or valve.

If you have a pressure loss in the cyl or valve, the relief will not activate.

When I observed my loader not lifting the specified weight, I suspected the cyls and rebuilt them, but did not fix the problem. I then removed the valve and had it tested. Still not the problem. Found out the pump was not pumping up to the specified pressure, about half. I then installed a gage in the loader circuit, and now I can monitor the pressure from that particular pump.

 

[Short Game]

Short Game,

Does the specs on the LL4100 equate to anything you experience.

2500 lbs at the lift pins, and 4300 lbs on the breakout force.

If the relief goes off, that means that you have the pressure, and if you can tilt the load so it is balanced on top of the pivot pins, then it should be able to lift up to the 2500 lbs as specified. The one thing that will prevent that from happening, is the pressure lost in the cyl or valve.

If you have a pressure loss in the cyl or valve, the relief will not activate.

When I observed my loader not lifting the specified weight, I suspected the cyls and rebuilt them, but did not fix the problem. I then removed the valve and had it tested. Still not the problem. Found out the pump was not pumping up to the specified pressure, about half. I then installed a gage in the loader circuit, and now I can monitor the pressure from that particular pump.

I've never noticed if the overall lift of the booms was all that weak. The roll back is what is noticeably weak when compared to the Cub Cadet's 417 loader (a Woods 162 from what I see online). When I put the dealer's gauge on the bucket roll back line, it was at the specified pressure or really close (it was a 10,000 pound, full scale, dial and not that easy to read a few pounds at 2422 psi.) when the relief lifted. The booms are a foot shorter than the CC loader, so they have less work to do with the load at the bucket, except that the bucket is farther from the boom end by about a foot.

I think the figures on the website reflect the larger bucket cylinders of the 2011s. My documentation says: 2186 lbs at the lift pins, and 3042 lbs on the breakout force.

 

[Short Game]

Today I got another example of the weakness of the roll-back of the LL4100 loader on my R4010G. My neighbors' old, dead, Cub Cadet lawn tractor was in their way and they asked me if I wanted it. Back when it was still running I used to work on it a lot, and had on several occasions, had to move it around with my Cub Cadet 7274 (Mitsubishi) and its CC 417 loader. This is the first time I have tried to move it with the LS and it failed me again on roll-back power. I only wanted to tip the bucket back just a little to get the bucket blade to press against it so it wouldn't swing around on the hook. Darned if it wasn't too heavy for this loader to even do that. Here is a picture of it hanging on my bucket hook. When I tried to just tip the bucket back, it wouldn't move, just coming up on the relief, which I've measured at prescribed operating pressure. That chain pulling straight down on that hook was too much for it. In order to get the bucket into the position I needed it in to move the thing, I had to set the lawn tractor back down and tip it back with no weight on it. It's shockingly gutless.

I'm now less than three hours from my 300 hour maintenance.

 

[Gary Fowler]

I have noticed that the curl on my P7010 seems to be getting weaker with age. It will definitely lift more than it will curl so there is something wrong somewhere. If I try to curl the bucket when I am trying to load a full bucket of dirt or rock, it just wont break out the load and I have to back out of the debris pile while lifting up the load to get anywhere near a full load. I am out of the country now, so I cant check anything, but that is for sure something that I have to look at when I get home.

 

[northpolefolks]

Today I got another example of the weakness of the roll-back of the LL4100 loader on my R4010G. My neighbors' old, dead, Cub Cadet lawn tractor was in their way and they asked me if I wanted it. Back when it was still running I used to work on it a lot, and had on several occasions, had to move it around with my Cub Cadet 7274 (Mitsubishi) and its CC 417 loader. This is the first time I have tried to move it with the LS and it failed me again on roll-back power. I only wanted to tip the bucket back just a little to get the bucket blade to press against it so it wouldn't swing around on the hook. Darned if it wasn't too heavy for this loader to even do that. Here is a picture of it hanging on my bucket hook. When I tried to just tip the bucket back, it wouldn't move, just coming up on the relief, which I've measured at prescribed operating pressure. That chain pulling straight down on that hook was too much for it. In order to get the bucket into the position I needed it in to move the thing, I had to set the lawn tractor back down and tip it back with no weight on it. It's shockingly gutless.

I'm now less than three hours from my 300 hour maintenance.

What year is your LS? I have been hearing that they modified the cylinders up front a bit on the "new" models. May be the issue with yours.

 

[Short Game]

What year is your LS? I have been hearing that they modified the cylinders up front a bit on the "new" models. May be the issue with yours.

It's a 2010 and yes, I personally discovered the larger bucket cylinders at the dealer on the 2011. This was after I'd been griping about my disappointments with this loader at length here already. It's too bad, because I like the tractor for lots of reasons, and the people at the dealer have been great too. LS just blew it on this tractor. That doesn't do me much good, so I gripe. I was the inspiration for this thread. If you are interested, I wrote a lot about this issue here.

 

[northpolefolks]

Are the newer cylinders able to fit on your loader? I will bet you can sell your current cylinders pretty quick. May be a fix for you, not that it make a fella feel good but just a thought.

 

[Gary Fowler]

I think I would hit my dealer up to check that. No way should the tractor pick up a load that it wont curl. It should be just the opposite. I know when I tried to unload a disc from a trailer with my Yanmar, it wouldnt lift it with the loader arms, but when I curled the bucket it came right up which is in line with the stats for lift capacity vs curl capacity. My 7010 has a diverter valve at the left side of the lift arms up in front and it has an adjustable relief on it which I have turned a couple of rounds. There should be one on the lift arms also,my yanmar only has one on the joystick control, but I havent looked under the plastic cowl for anything like that. I dont think that one that I adjusted has any bearing on the lift arm cylinders just looking at the oil lines.

 

[toxicjeeper]

I agree there is defionitly something wrong. I relise that my tractor is the next size up but it cur;led 1800 pounds without even a drop in RPM at idle!..Not sure how heavy that mower is but i am gussing it shouldnt have given you any trouble..



Uploaded with ImageShack.us



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

i am not professional rigger

 

[Short Game]

The real frustration is that I bought this tractor when I accidentally killed my 27HP Cub Cadet. I continually find jobs that the old loader did that this one on my 41HP LS cannot. On top of that, the size of the loader between the boom pivot and the bucket pivot is 12 inches less, so it is also a smaller loader, and things I could reach with the Cub Cadet, I cannot reach with this one. Add to that that the bucket width is also a couple of inches less than the full 60" that the Cub Cadet's was. It all continues to chafe. It is pretty sad that I have to hope I can someday resurrect my 27HP tractor so I can have that better loader again.

Here's a really weird thing too. The first week or so that I had this tractor, I popped a hydraulic hose on the roll-back side of one of the bucket cylinders! It's hard to imagine I'm short of pump pressure or the relief is set low. That's the only time I've popped a hose on two tractors. That happened moving a few skinny logs on my bucket forks. I soon discovered I couldn't move enough weight on those forks and so, had to build my log forks to gain enough mechanical advantage to do the work I needed to do. Work I was used to doing with the same bucket forks on my Cub Cadet.

I'm sure that my Cub Cadet would roll back toxicjeeper's lathe without a grunt.

 

[northpolefolks]

I talked to my LS dealer today. He said that checking the hydraulic pressure from the factory is not a required check for them. Not to say they shouldn't. He said that some dealers don't check this, regarless of the brand. He is going to check mine when it gets here.

He sells Bransons too and said that Branson's are constantly set too low and have to be adjusted upon purchasing. He said that this is no sign of weakness, but a sign of the factory setting them low so that if someone "bumps them up" they are not over pressurizing the system.

This may be your issue. Hope so as it's an easy fix.

 

[Gary Fowler]

I asked my dealer the same question about checking the set pressure. He didnt even have a gauge to check it with, so no they dont check. I doubt any dealer checks them from the factory. Factory sets them low to assure you dont damage the loader, but I guess sometimes they set them too low to function properly. Bad thing is no where in the operators book does it tell you how to properly set them. Thanks to all here who have when thru this and can provide some advice.

 

[204saskman]

On my Montana 2844R Hst it will lift the tractor off the ground before it stops. I only had one issue with lifting and i was lifting almost 2500lbs and it wouldnt curl it back but did lift it up no issues, just no tilt for some reason. But the dealer i bought mine from said they bumped mine up as it was set too low. It has no problems i dont find lifting anything i need it to lift.

 

[toxicjeeper]

Hey shortgame. I just saw this ad for a 2012 3038 and the lift numbers are more than my tractor @ 27oo pounds..I thought i read somewhere that the 2012 models were getting new cylinders?? maybe its a misprint cause that is a small Looking tractor..

LS 3038 tractor and loader - New Brunswick Farming Equipment For Sale - Kijiji New Brunswick Canada.

 

[boomer632]

That is not a 2012 model. I think that tractor is actually a 2010 model. I also believe that LS stopped equipping the "R" model with that particular "curved arm" loader. I have a 2011 4041 and it has the LL4101 loader which has a completely different look and geomety. There is also no grill guard on that tractor..

I am curious to see if the LS owners having the curl problems have the
LL4101 loader or the "curved" one..

I will measure my cylinders and post back..

 

[toxicjeeper]

oops..you are right boomer..

 

[ozley]

Hey shortgame. I just saw this ad for a 2012 3038 and the lift numbers are more than my tractor @ 27oo pounds..I thought i read somewhere that the 2012 models were getting new cylinders?? maybe its a misprint cause that is a small Looking tractor..

LS 3038 tractor and loader - New Brunswick Farming Equipment For Sale - Kijiji New Brunswick Canada.

Are Boomer an I looking at the same ad.
Looking at the Picture it shows a 3601 loader that shows as a current loader from LS
http://www.lstractorusa.com/attachments/attachments/front-end-loaders/loader-LL3601.html
It does looks like there is a guard on it, but a strange hood. I believe it a G.

 

[boomer632]

Oz.. we were looking at 2 different ads. It has since been changed to the one you saw..