Front-End Loader Rock & debris bucket

[KYDan]

Thanks for all the input and information. I am planning on thinking about this and checking things out at the farm show and talking with people that have experience in this area. However, eden shale is a pretty formidable soil project. I will post some pictures of what I am dealing with. These are large rocks that would most likely make short work of a power rake. some of them are large enough that I back the dump trailer up to where the rock is and work it into the trailer with the loader bucket being assisted by leveraging the rock against the dump trailer (twin cylinder) and using both the tractor loader hydraulics and the trailer hydraulics to get the rock loaded into the trailer. Of course not of all them are this large. I have already moved a lot of rocks weighing between 50-500 lbs., however some of the larger ones are probable in the 3,000 lb. + range. I also plan to use the rock bucket as a brush rake for clearing projects. I can reduce the rock bucket size, but 72" works for the Q A system and I can limit the load as I have a pretty good feel for that already. Transport distances will be short as I will have the dump trailer close by. I am not concerned with the smaller stones, saucer sized rocks and larger are the primary focus. I like the idea of a rear rock rake like the modified tiller, but that would only be practical after moving the larger rocks. These are not boulders as I would define boulders but large flat rocks about 6" to 10" thick in varying circumferences. Some of them are quite large 6' X 8' by 8-10" thick. I have to deal with all of them. Most are smaller in the 3-4' range and smaller. There are rock pickers and rock windrowers for large tractors 100 + HP, but not much for the 50 HP range. Also, I have to consider my budget. This is a retirement project that I can spend considerable time on and there is no rush to complete it at some set time schedule. Any implement that I can use for double duty is a big plus. I realize that specialized single purpose equipment will always be better for a single task, but general purpose or multi-purpose equipment can perform the same task, just not as efficiently or effectively. Trade offs are a part of the small tractor genre. Another purpose for the rock bucket is also to sift the rocks from the composted pond muck that I will use for the topsoil on this project. I am not discounting anything and really do appreciate the input and keep it coming. I have gotten an abundance of good information from this thread and a lot of the other threads on this very interesting and information forum. This is a fun project that will keep my busy for years!

 

[jinman]

Dan, I'm firmly on the 'team' with Steve when he says using a rock bucket is really hard on hydraulics and the loader. The rock bucket you are considering is going to work only for softball/grapefruit sized rocks that can be picked up in loose soil. Even then, the solid cutting edge at the front of the tines is going to be a hindrance to picking up stones. It will collect and push a solid ridge of dirt that will tumble the rocks forward in front of the bucket until you have a mound of material big enough so that the blade undercuts the mound. Any kind of irregular surface will compound the difficulty. Unless you have a flat plowed field with dry sandy loam soil and baseball sized rocks on the surface, I'd look for another rock bucket. You just cannot use a rock bucket like a regular loader bucket. You HAVE to think of the rock bucket in terms of one or two rocks at a time that get collected in a basket.

Rock buckets like the Bradco have pointed tines for digging under imbedded rocks. They also have a "basket" behind the tines so that you can keep rocks from rolling out of the bucket while you tilt the tines downward enough to undercut more rocks. Unless I have a pile of rocks, I almost never get my rock bucket anymore than 1/4 full before transporting and dumping its contents. The size of the bucket just allows you to repeatedly curl the bucket and have the rocks roll around and shed dirt. Think of it like putting a shovel full of gravel and sand into a sieve and then shaking the sieve to let the sand drop through. It's completely different from handling dirt with a loader bucket. Because of that, I have rock bucket that's 60" wide and I'd be plenty happy if it were actually 48" wide or less. The extra depth of the buckets is also a big advantage. You can easily see the tips of your tines for the best placement under rocks to pry them up. The only advantage to a larger/wider rock bucket is to be able to handle boulders.

Its your decision, but based on my experience, I would not recommend the bucket you are thinking about. I believe you'll be frustrated with it as a rock bucket. With an added grapple, it would make a great brush/cleanup bucket, but I don't see it being a good rock bucket except for the most limited conditions.

EDIT: Don't be fooled by photos like my attachments. It looks like the rock bucket is a great tool in those photos, but the truth is that I loaded 1/3 of the bucket with the tractor and the rest of them I hand loaded. If someone shows you pictures like this and says they loaded the rock bucket using only the tractor, ask them what turnip truck they think you fell off of.

 

[KYDan]

Dan, I'm firmly on the 'team' with Steve when he says using a rock bucket is really hard on hydraulics and the loader. The rock bucket you are considering is going to work only for softball/grapefruit sized rocks that can be picked up in loose soil. Even then, the solid cutting edge at the front of the tines is going to be a hindrance to picking up stones. It will collect and push a solid ridge of dirt that will tumble the rocks forward in front of the bucket until you have a mound of material big enough so that the blade undercuts the mound. Any kind of irregular surface will compound the difficulty. Unless you have a flat plowed field with dry sandy loam soil and baseball sized rocks on the surface, I'd look for another rock bucket. You just cannot use a rock bucket like a regular loader bucket. You HAVE to think of the rock bucket in terms of one or two rocks at a time that get collected in a basket.

Rock buckets like the Bradco have pointed tines for digging under imbedded rocks. They also have a "basket" behind the tines so that you can keep rocks from rolling out of the bucket while you tilt the tines downward enough to undercut more rocks. Unless I have a pile of rocks, I almost never get my rock bucket anymore than 1/4 full before transporting and dumping its contents. The size of the bucket just allows you to repeatedly curl the bucket and have the rocks roll around and shed dirt. Think of it like putting a shovel full of gravel and sand into a sieve and then shaking the sieve to let the sand drop through. It's completely different from handling dirt with a loader bucket. Because of that, I have rock bucket that's 60" wide and I'd be plenty happy if it were actually 48" wide or less. The extra depth of the buckets is also a big advantage. You can easily see the tips of your tines for the best placement under rocks to pry them up. The only advantage to a larger/wider rock bucket is to be able to handle boulders.

Its your decision, but based on my experience, I would not recommend the bucket you are thinking about. I believe you'll be frustrated with it as a rock bucket. With an added grapple, it would make a great brush/cleanup bucket, but I don't see it being a good rock bucket except for the most limited conditions.

EDIT: Don't be fooled by photos like my attachments. It looks like the rock bucket is a great tool in those photos, but the truth is that I loaded 1/3 of the bucket with the tractor and the rest of them I hand loaded. If someone shows you pictures like this and says they loaded the rock bucket using only the tractor, ask them what turnip truck they think you fell off of.

Thank you very much, this is the kind of information that I have been searching for! What tractor is pictured here and what is its horsepower and weight? I was going with the 72" bucket simply because I wanted to use the QA on my Kubota MX5100. Kubota uses a skid steer type QA on this series and I can use a smaller bucket if it will allow enough space to utilize the QA. I assume Bradco or anyone else for that matter can accommodate this setup. I am off to check out their website now.

 

[KYDan]

I checked out the Bradco bucket and I am impressed and it is a better design for my needs. I think it will fit the LA 844 QA system with ease as it is the same system if the distances are the same between the QA plates. I shopped around some looking for the Bradco and others and so far I like the Bradco the best. I did find the RBX series Dirt Dog boxes that Bruce McGee has are physically identical to the Bush Hog brand and exactly the same weight, but considerably less expensive. This appears to be a no brainer for the box blades. I don't know if either of them, BH or DG will be at the Farm Show with the box blades or not. Bush Hog is always there, but usually it's mostly their mowers.

 

[Wyobuckaroo]

I am day dreaming about building a "rock tooth bar" for my FEL.
When nice weather comes back. Just doing measuring and blueprints now.

Kind of bolt on, like the tooth bars do, only more and longer teeth. I am thinking about 19 teeth 1" wide (60" bucket) and having them extend about 6" out from the front and about 6" back into the bucket, by 2" high. So there will be about 2" opening between teeth.

May not be perfect, but less than 1/3 $ of a tooth bar and way cheaper than a rock bucket.............


Good luck

 

[KYDan]

I contacted Dirt Dog and they advised me that they sell their box blades to Bush Hog. They will not be at the show, but Bush Hog will, however, I don't know if they will have box blades at their exhibit. I filled out a question form on their website, but they have not answered yet. Dirt Dog got back to me in minutes! I also noticed that Dirt Dog has some pretty healthy looking lift disc harrows, I am contemplating a set of those later. I would really like to find a good set of old Massey 25's with scrapers though.

 

[jinman]

Dan, my tractor is a 45 hp New Holland with HST transmission. I don't think Bradco makes a 60" rock bucket like mine. My bucket with QA adapter and grapple weighs about 700 lb. I can lift about a half-ton of rocks or less. The grapple thumb is especially useful for large rocks where I can clamp down on them with the thumb and curl up to transport. Many large flat rocks are so big that they don't fit well in my bucket.

 

[KYDan]

It sounds like we have similar issues and tractors. I checked with Everything attachments and Iowa Farm Equipment Sales (They also sell the Bradco among other brands.) The 66' Bradco should fit my Kubota QA system perfectly. I use my loader bucket (HD round back) to flip the big flat rocks end-over-end until I can access them with my dump trailer. I then raise the bed until its maximum and then flip the rock onto it, lowering the trailer and pushing the rock onto it with the loader simultaneously. It works pretty well that way and I have loaded rocks as heavy as 3,000 + pounds. I use these rocks to line steep banks in the creeks and cuts I have made for driveways and then plant ground cover such as phlox between the rocks. Works well to hold backs and looks pretty good once it's all completed. Have you used your rock bucket for much brush work?

 

[jinman]

Yes, I've done tons of brush grappling. The sides of the bucket are somewhat limiting, but I can move a bunch of brush in a short time. I also use the bucket and grapple to hold trees while I buck them to size with my chainsaw. The uses are just as many as my creativity. I love it! You do have to be careful that you don't push a 3"-4" limb between the tines. You can bend them fairly easy. I keep a 3' section of 2" pipe handy. I slip it over the bent tine and use a tree to push the tine back in place.:thumbsup:

 

[KYDan]

The removable sides of the bucket that I was initially contemplating were the primary reason I was leaning towards it. However, after the posts of you members that have been there and done that I saw the rationale of the true rock bucket and decided that was the priority. I wonder if the sides of the Bradco could be rigged to be removable?

 

[Code54]

On your 5100 the quick attach is a standard so any bucket that is the "SSQA" will fit it without a problem. My stump bucket is something like 42" wide at the top and fits perfect so once you find one you like just make sure it is SSQA and you are set. The way the buckets mounts is the female 1/2 of the mounts is to the outside center of the rock grapple so no matter the size it will work well.
I have also found that on my rock bucket it has the "pin on teeth" and this is the part that really helps pull the rocks out and allows me to get under them a bit easier. I then roll them back into the bucket and as I drive the bouncing sort of shakes the dirt off and it falls through the back of the bucket and I am set.
As for brush work with a rock bucket - no problem. The sides are really not a problem for some reason, it seems that the brush sort of bends and squishes around the sides but I do have the grapple on the top to "help" it fit. I personally love having the grapple on it as it makes the bucket MUCH more useful. I don't know if you have the rear hydro's on your 5100 but if you do it is easy to run lines to the front for a grapple. I can supply you photos and some info on how I did mine if it would help you at all.
I am also looking forward to the up coming show. I have never been to one but it sounds like it will be really interesting! Looks like it will be a great place for you to compare products and quality. Hopefully the vendors will have some knowledgable sales staff there to help with your questions and offer their advice.

 

[jinman]

The tines on the rock bucket stick out far enough that I can roll a log onto the bucket and hold it with the grapple so that the sides don't limit me too much. Sometimes cleaning up building debris/lumber, the material would fit better with no sides, but the grapple just holds stuff in place. I was hauling some poles for a neighbor and ran into a problem. His trail went between trees that were too narrow for me to haul the poles side-to-side, so I had to get creative. The photo below shows my solution that worked perfectly.

 

[KYDan]

On your 5100 the quick attach is a standard so any bucket that is the "SSQA" will fit it without a problem. My stump bucket is something like 42" wide at the top and fits perfect so once you find one you like just make sure it is SSQA and you are set. The way the buckets mounts is the female 1/2 of the mounts is to the outside center of the rock grapple so no matter the size it will work well.
I have also found that on my rock bucket it has the "pin on teeth" and this is the part that really helps pull the rocks out and allows me to get under them a bit easier. I then roll them back into the bucket and as I drive the bouncing sort of shakes the dirt off and it falls through the back of the bucket and I am set.
As for brush work with a rock bucket - no problem. The sides are really not a problem for some reason, it seems that the brush sort of bends and squishes around the sides but I do have the grapple on the top to "help" it fit. I personally love having the grapple on it as it makes the bucket MUCH more useful. I don't know if you have the rear hydro's on your 5100 but if you do it is easy to run lines to the front for a grapple. I can supply you photos and some info on how I did mine if it would help you at all.
I am also looking forward to the up coming show. I have never been to one but it sounds like it will be really interesting! Looks like it will be a great place for you to compare products and quality. Hopefully the vendors will have some knowledgable sales staff there to help with your questions and offer their advice.

I like the idea of the pin on teeth. What brand is your rock bucket?

 

[Code54]

I bought mine from WildKat in Denton NC. They are real reasonable and ship quick! I ordered one day before lunch and had it the next day before dinner!
Adding front remotes (running everything from the rear of the 5100 to the front so I can use my existing rear remotes) took one easy evening. I also plumbed in a disconnect so I can easily pull the loader off if I would want to.

 

[KYDan]

Thanks,

How well does the rock bucket work without the grapple? I didn't order my 5100 with rear remotes (big mistake) and it is not in my budget for awhile. If it works pretty good like the Bradco I will consider it on my shopping list and maybe add the grapple later. Since, I am adding a new box blade, rotary mower, rock bucket, and disc harrows this spring it pretty well shoots my budget for tractor stuff for this year! I already added the Tarter fence unrolier stretcher (not expensive) and a lot of field fence (expensive) and I have to buy the posts yet. I am considering RR ties as I can get them for $9 apiece from RJ Corman's lot. I will check the condition on them first to see how they are. He has been replacing a lot of RR ties and rails.

 

[KYDan]

I checked out the Wildkat and like it, however, the Bradco seems to suit my needs better. I really do like the pin on teeth though. It saves wear on the tines and will dig better. I have pin on teeth on both of my tooth bars and it is a simple, cheap fix to replace them. I keep spares on hand to minimize down time. I did the same thing when I had my Kubota backhoe attachment on my L2900. I think I have exhausted my brain with all of this and really want to express my gratitude for everyone that has helped my with this thread. Now, it's a matter of shopping the show next month. Heck, I need to look at, touch, sit on, drool over so much stuff that I may need two or three days there!

Thanks,

Dan

 

[jenkinsph]

Dan,
My rock bucket is a Frontier R66" which is a ssqa setup, I use it with my Deere 110tlb. You can get even smaller ssqa buckets than this.

 

[Code54]

May want to ask around - a lot of the companies will make some changes to the bucket for a very reasonable cost. They maybe able to add the teeth to the one you like and you can get exactly what you want

 

[KYDan]

Thanks for all the information and images. I am leaning towards the Bradco 66" rock bucket and the Dirt Dog 72" rollover box blade. I am also going to replace my rotary mower this spring. My old Fred Cain has seen better days and is too small for the 5100. I am probably going to get a 72" HD mower. I am not sure what brand yet, but most likely Land Pride or Bush Hog. The Farm Show will help with all of this. Not much of a tractor type day here. 30 degrees, foggy (visibility is 1.5 miles and the ceiling is 300 ft). It supposed to get up around sixty and then major storms tonight. Sounds like a good day to watch football.

Of course none of this is set in stone yet. The show always has some surprises.

 

[muddstopper]

A few years back I had a rock bucket made for my TN75 New Holland. The bucket was 72" wide. The standard had 3inch spacing. I was doing a lot of lawn work at the time and thought I wanted a bucket that would pick up rock smaller than 3 inches so I had them make it with 2in spacing instead of the standard 3in. I found this to be a big mistake on my part. The smaller spacing would pickup the rocks, but in order to fill the bucket, I also got a lot of dirt. Lifting and shaking the bucket to sift the dirt I found to be very hard on the loader. As someone else has already said, the cutting blade on the front of the bucket would push a mound of dirt before the bucket would slip under the rocks to pick them up. I had several ripper teeth on the cutting edge and would use them to pry larger rocks out of the ground before trying to load, but found the bucket would just push the larger rocks in front of the bucket until enough dirt built up in front of the large rock to force it into the bucket. I found my best success with removeing the rocks was to first use my harley rake to rake the rocks into winrows before trying to pick them up with the rake. I also used a landscape rake to rake the rocks into piles for picking up and found that to work pretty well also. Personally, I think anybody buying a rock bucket thinking thats all they need and its going to make life easier is just fooling themselfs. Some sort of landscape or harely rake to pile stones first is the only way to go. Did I use my rock bucket only on some jobs, certainly, but it didnt take long for me to figure out work became much faster and easier, with less stress on my FEL, if I would use the harley or landscape rake first.