New Kubota Factory

[JOHNTHOMAS]

Bethesda you hit it pretty darn close. I really have to wonder where people get their wage figures from, I think out is they're pulling them out of their arse or getting them from Fox News. I know what the current wage is where I used to work in "Closed" Union Shop, "closed" as in you had to be in the Union or you didn't work there. I'm gonna tell y'all right here and now that I do not I know of any Union workers making $50-75/hr. The current wage in the shop I'm going to tell you about for a Journeyman Machinist is $25.04/hr. plus benefits and benefits get lower with every contract. To get in this shop is not easy, they recently wanted to hired 3 Journeyman Machinist, meaning you better hit the floor able to do or make what's put in front of you. In the last hiring session over 50 showed up, when told there would be a mandatory drug test about half left, when they got through doing aptitude testing only 2 made it through. There's more talent in the Union shop I worked in than any place I've ever worked and there's been quite a few. This facility has cranes from 1 ton to two overhead 200ton cranes, that's not a typo it's 200ton, that's the kind of equipment being handled there.

I realize it's cute and all to throw off all the problems of this country onto Unions and there probably is some Union workplaces where stuff isn't getting done or done right but I can assure you there's Union facilities out there that are the envy of the world. The facility I spoke of has been visited by nearly every Class 1 railroad, the head of FRA and Rail Administrations from other countries. The workmanship coming out of that shop is top notch. Equipment so well built that they have built massive amounts of equipment for other railroads.

I tried to bugout of this thread but some of you folks haven't a clue as to what you're talking about. Turn off the Fox News, stop drinking their Kool-Aid and start thinking for yourself for a change. Merry Christmas!

Merry Christmas to you also. JESUS, THE REASON FOR THE SEASON!!
Read your entire post and applaud it but I see nothing in it that supports a Union as having anything to do with the quality of work. Looks to me like any good employer with some good employees and I don't see where the Union had anything to do with the quality output.
If 25 people graduate from HS and all go to work in the same community. Say one to a Union Assembly Company and all the others to a Non Union Assembly Company. All 25 work a 40 hour week putting a part on an assembly moving by them on a moving line. One (the Union Worker) gets paid $35 per hour plus "benefits" and the other 24 earn $9.27 per hour and a few benefits. Now which of these workers can buy a boat and a new car and a more expensive house and all of them having the same education and work experience and work output? Now, will the $35 an hour employee plus "benefits" ask all his neighbors to support him and only buy products that his company makes or even to only buy products assembled at a Union Shop?
Now if I'm one of the $9.27 an hour workers that didn't have the "pull" or luck to get a job that pays almost 5 times as much as I make for basically the same work.......... no, I'm going to buy the item that I can afford like MOST of my neighbors that work for a more normal local rate of pay. Am I going to feel "sorry" for my $35 an hour plus benefits neighbor when his company shuts down????
The cost of living is less in different locations. I live in an area with a low cost of living. Many retired ex Union workers move here after they retire and their retirement income puts them up in the more high priced housing neighborhoods and where they make about 4 to 5 times as much during their retirement age as most of the other retired individuals that live in the area as well as more than most skilled currently workers in the area. Many are complaining about having to pay part of their insurance now while their neighbors are covered under Medicare which "ain't" great.
Most are nice people but due to some lucky breaks are living much better than most of their neighbors. Many took their pot of gold and split Detroit and Cincinnati and moved further south where the living is easy (and cheaper).

 

[TripleR]

Merry Christmas to you also. JESUS, THE REASON FOR THE SEASON!!
Read your entire post and applaud it but I see nothing in it that supports a Union as having anything to do with the quality of work. Looks to me like any good employer with some good employees and I don't see where the Union had anything to do with the quality output.
If 25 people graduate from HS and all go to work in the same community. Say one to a Union Assembly Company and all the others to a Non Union Assembly Company. All 25 work a 40 hour week putting a part on an assembly moving by them on a moving line. One (the Union Worker) gets paid $35 per hour plus "benefits" and the other 24 earn $9.27 per hour and a few benefits. Now which of these workers can buy a boat and a new car and a more expensive house and all of them having the same education and work experience and work output? Now, will the $35 an hour employee plus "benefits" ask all his neighbors to support him and only buy products that his company makes or even to only buy products assembled at a Union Shop?
Now if I'm one of the $9.27 an hour workers that didn't have the "pull" or luck to get a job that pays almost 5 times as much as I make for basically the same work.......... no, I'm going to buy the item that I can afford like MOST of my neighbors that work for a more normal local rate of pay. Am I going to feel "sorry" for my $35 an hour plus benefits neighbor when his company shuts down????
The cost of living is less in different locations. I live in an area with a low cost of living. Many retired ex Union workers move here after they retire and their retirement income puts them up in the more high priced housing neighborhoods and where they make about 4 to 5 times as much during their retirement age as most of the other retired individuals that live in the area as well as more than most skilled currently workers in the area. Many are complaining about having to pay part of their insurance now while their neighbors are covered under Medicare which "ain't" great.
Most are nice people but due to some lucky breaks are living much better than most of their neighbors. Many took their pot of gold and split Detroit and Cincinnati and moved further south where the living is easy (and cheaper).

:thumbsup:

 

[bunchgrass]

@JOHNTHOMAS -
"All 25 work a 40 hour week putting a part on an assembly moving by them on a moving line. One (the Union Worker) gets paid $35 per hour plus "benefits" and the other 24 earn $9.27 per hour and a few benefits."

I think a previous poster made the case that workers who were treated better were more responsible and productive workers. I think the $9.27 per hour folks might feel their poor salary was poor treatment. The rest will follow. Also, crummy wages lead to high turnover - not good for production either.

"but due to some lucky breaks"
They had to live for 30 yrs in Detroit : ) Ain't that enough?

I will say I had a senior level administrator, making well over $100,000/ yr, tell a group of workers that part of our compensation was getting to live here in this beautiful place. Try and pay rent with that.

 

[rkeith]

Merry Christmas to you also. JESUS, THE REASON FOR THE SEASON!!
Read your entire post and applaud it but I see nothing in it that supports a Union as having anything to do with the quality of work. Looks to me like any good employer with some good employees and I don't see where the Union had anything to do with the quality output.
If 25 people graduate from HS and all go to work in the same community. Say one to a Union Assembly Company and all the others to a Non Union Assembly Company. All 25 work a 40 hour week putting a part on an assembly moving by them on a moving line. One (the Union Worker) gets paid $35 per hour plus "benefits" and the other 24 earn $9.27 per hour and a few benefits. Now which of these workers can buy a boat and a new car and a more expensive house and all of them having the same education and work experience and work output? Now, will the $35 an hour employee plus "benefits" ask all his neighbors to support him and only buy products that his company makes or even to only buy products assembled at a Union Shop?
Now if I'm one of the $9.27 an hour workers that didn't have the "pull" or luck to get a job that pays almost 5 times as much as I make for basically the same work.......... no, I'm going to buy the item that I can afford like MOST of my neighbors that work for a more normal local rate of pay. Am I going to feel "sorry" for my $35 an hour plus benefits neighbor when his company shuts down????
The cost of living is less in different locations. I live in an area with a low cost of living. Many retired ex Union workers move here after they retire and their retirement income puts them up in the more high priced housing neighborhoods and where they make about 4 to 5 times as much during their retirement age as most of the other retired individuals that live in the area as well as more than most skilled currently workers in the area. Many are complaining about having to pay part of their insurance now while their neighbors are covered under Medicare which "ain't" great.
Most are nice people but due to some lucky breaks are living much better than most of their neighbors. Many took their pot of gold and split Detroit and Cincinnati and moved further south where the living is easy (and cheaper).

I know a "union" worker (he's an electrician) and he can't buy a foreign vehicle! It's against his union's rules. He was talking to me about my tractor and he stated he couldn't buy one because they are made in Japan. How about that? I'm SOOOOO glad I'm not a union worker!

 

[EHR]

I will try to respond to a couple of threads. I responded that I had stopped buying American made auto for years because of the poor quality and I was informed that it was me that was the problem. If I get a bad meal eating out I try the place again, two bad meals and no effort to make it right by the restruant means that I am now a "former" client. Same with the cars.

As a male who became a RN at age 49 I know what challenges a nurse faces. I know they don't last long if there are problems. I also know about the obese diabetic who sneaks in food and wants us to fix it for them. Or the drunk that is combative...

I have been both a Teamster and in the IBEW, there are plusses and minuses for both.

I have gone back to school numerous times to get the training I needed to advance my career for a total of 10 years post high school. The American worker needs to be willing to retrain and start over several times. No employer owes me anything
Currently I work in Electronic Health Records (EHR). We will see what the next step is.

 

[JOHNTHOMAS]

@JOHNTHOMAS -
"All 25 work a 40 hour week putting a part on an assembly moving by them on a moving line. One (the Union Worker) gets paid $35 per hour plus "benefits" and the other 24 earn $9.27 per hour and a few benefits."

I think a previous poster made the case that workers who were treated better were more responsible and productive workers. I think the $9.27 per hour folks might feel their poor salary was poor treatment. (When 24 out of 25 make $9.27 then most people accept that as a decent wage especially with mimimum wage about $6. I think they know and accept the fact that the person making $35 an hour is way, way, way over paid, not that they are underpaid) The rest will follow. Also, crummy wages lead to high turnover - not good for production either.

I THINK THE PREVIOUS POSTER IS WRONG. I was a worker for many years and wanted and did earn a fair wage. Without a fair wage I would have moved to an employer that paid me a FAIR wage. Fair wage is what is paid in my community for the work I perform based on education, experience and productivity. I was a Veteran, previous work history and a College Graduate and some of my family worked for Fisher Body (Union)and made considerably more than me with HS or less and straight off the street. Went on strike every summer, still got paid and drove new cars. Did I feel underpaid or did I feel they were over paid???
I later was an Administrator for many years and found that there were a few workers that thought only about MORE MONEY. They weren't more productive or better workers when they got money raises. In fact, I believe they weren't as good as the workers committed to doing a good job and weren't always complaining about how underpaid they were. In 12 years as a Manager I"m convinced that perfomance was NOT based on pay. 100% convinced!!! I gave raises to all employees as I was able if they had good attitudes and performed the basic functions of their jobs. Sometimes the Governing body gave across the board raises to all employees and I never noticed any improvement in work or attitude when these increases were given, I also received one at these times as well as several Merit raises but I didn't work more because I got more money.
In sales, which I've done, more sales usually equals more money. Sales is an area that truly pays for production but very few people go into sales jobs and most that do don't stay even with the increased money. Sales usually is very good paying work or most sales is/can be. It's hard to find people that will work in sales since it is almost entirely performance based.
In summary I believe people want to be appreciated and recognized for doing a good job. I'm convinced of this. More money is not the measuring stick used by most people to determine if they are appreciated no more than a spouse feels more appreciated by more gifts vs the other expressions of appreciation. That doesn't mean a spouse doesn't want an occassional gift (fair prevalling wage) but appreciates the other expression of appreciation more.
Now, those that believe more money is the answer to every thing will not accept this and that's fine. I know and have worked with your soulmates.

 

[kuboman]

Always believed it was what was in the person that made them do a good job or not. Compensation is secondary to the job that is done. Unions certainly discourage conscientious individuals. I am sure this will get some response but show me a union that encourages their workers to perform better.

 

[buck12]

Good post. It seems many expect to graduate from high school and make a high salary with no skills. Things have changed and a person must have current and marketable skills to earn a good living. The days of a high school diploma and a high paying no skill factory job are gone. There are good paying jobs in a factory but they are not standing on an assembly line.

Edit: I meant to quote EHR's post but goofed.

 

[grsthegreat]

I know a "union" worker (he's an electrician) and he can't buy a foreign vehicle! It's against his union's rules. He was talking to me about my tractor and he stated he couldn't buy one because they are made in Japan. How about that? I'm SOOOOO glad I'm not a union worker!

well, i was a union electrician from Spokane Wash (Local 73) and they NEVER told us we couldnt buy a foreign made car...... no one ever said a thing.

guess it depends on the union

 

[Scooby074]

The only time ive ever heard of a union dictating what car you can drive was the UAW. I cant remember which automaker, but if you drove a different manufacturer's vehicle you had to park in the FAR lot. If you drove the same brand as your employer, you got to park close.

It wasnt that you couldnt buy a different brand, but you suffered for the privilege

 

[BXpanded]

The only time ive ever heard of a union dictating what car you can drive was the UAW. I cant remember which automaker, but if you drove a different manufacturer's vehicle you had to park in the FAR lot. If you drove the same brand as your employer, you got to park close.

It wasnt that you couldnt buy a different brand, but you suffered for the privilege

It was at Chrysler

 

[Martian]

The only time ive ever heard of a union dictating what car you can drive was the UAW. I cant remember which automaker, but if you drove a different manufacturer's vehicle you had to park in the FAR lot. If you drove the same brand as your employer, you got to park close.

It wasnt that you couldnt buy a different brand, but you suffered for the privilege

That still happens. I know, for instance, my mom still works for gm as an engineer, in the warren tech center, and if you drive gm you get to park in the nice, close parking structure where you don't have to shovel snow off your car and if you drive anything else it's across the road. Pretty sure that's true with the other manufacturers as well.

 

[kuboman]

Umm...imagine a company demanding its employees show some commitment to the product they make.

 

[JOHNTHOMAS]

Umm...imagine a company demanding its employees show some commitment to the product they make.

Person helps make a product he/she needs. Person has a choice of which product to buy. Is pressured into buying the one he/she makes??? Hmmm maybe they know more about the product they help make and don't want to buy it. Make them buy it and that solves that problem. What's this choice idea all about any way???:laughing::laughing:
What about this program Corvette has going? You (customer) pay an extra $6000 and you can go to the factory in Bowling Green, Ky and build your engine yourself.:thumbsup: Maybe that wll start catching on with more Automobile (Tractor) manufacturers. Wonder if the employees or stock holders get to keep the extra $$$$s or maybe they split it.
Speaking of Unions. How many years did the Railroad Unions require all train engines have a Coalman on every engine even if there was no coal (deisel engines) and the Coalman was never required/allowed to do anything but shovel (non existent) coal? I love the RR Union requirement that no one (my Uncles, Cousins, Dad, Father in law) could replace a light bulb in the round house except the Electrician (Cousin).:licking: Good ole Union Shop. Oh, that round house is closed now and has been for years.

 

[300UGUY]

The only time ive ever heard of a union dictating what car you can drive was the UAW. I cant remember which automaker, but if you drove a different manufacturer's vehicle you had to park in the FAR lot. If you drove the same brand as your employer, you got to park close.

It wasnt that you couldnt buy a different brand, but you suffered for the privilege

I worked for a Chrysler assembly plant in the 70's, they had a 3 parking lots: #1 the best, closest, for guys who bought a car made in that plant. #2 next closest, for guys who bought another Chrysler product, and #3, the dark side of the moon, for guys who bought something else. I worked for GM later, and the policy varied by plant. I had relatives that worked for Fords, they had similar policies.

 

[300UGUY]

Person helps make a product he/she needs. Person has a choice of which product to buy. Is pressured into buying the one he/she makes??? Hmmm maybe they know more about the product they help make and don't want to buy it. Make them buy it and that solves that problem. What's this choice idea all about any way???:laughing::laughing:
What about this program Corvette has going? You (customer) pay an extra $6000 and you can go to the factory in Bowling Green, Ky and build your engine yourself.:thumbsup: Maybe that wll start catching on with more Automobile (Tractor) manufacturers. Wonder if the employees or stock holders get to keep the extra $$$ or maybe they split it.
Speaking of Unions. How many years did the Railroad Unions require all train engines have a Coalman on every engine even if there was no coal (deisel engines) and the Coalman was never required/allowed to do anything but shovel (non existent) coal? I love the RR Union requirement that no one (my Uncles, Cousins, Dad, Father in law) could replace a light bulb in the round house except the Electrician (Cousin).:licking: Good ole Union Shop. Oh, that round house is closed now and has been for years.

No way GM is gonna let cash slip thru their hands.... I didn't think the engines were built there in Kentucky. I thought they were built in Wixom or Flint.

 

[300UGUY]

@JOHNTHOMAS -
"All 25 work a 40 hour week putting a part on an assembly moving by them on a moving line. One (the Union Worker) gets paid $35 per hour plus "benefits" and the other 24 earn $9.27 per hour and a few benefits."

I think a previous poster made the case that workers who were treated better were more responsible and productive workers. I think the $9.27 per hour folks might feel their poor salary was poor treatment. The rest will follow. Also, crummy wages lead to high turnover - not good for production either.

"but due to some lucky breaks"
They had to live for 30 yrs in Detroit : ) Ain't that enough?

I will say I had a senior level administrator, making well over $100,000/ yr, tell a group of workers that part of our compensation was getting to live here in this beautiful place. Try and pay rent with that.

After 35 years in different plants, yeah, that oughta be enough !!

 

[JOHNTHOMAS]

No way GM is gonna let cash slip thru their hands.... I didn't think the engines were built there in Kentucky. I thought they were built in Wixom or Flint.

Not sure where engine assembled/built. May be in Mich.

 

[newbury]

Good post. It seems many expect to graduate from high school and make a high salary with no skills. Things have changed and a person must have current and marketable skills to earn a good living. The days of a high school diploma and a high paying no skill factory job are gone. There are good paying jobs in a factory but they are not standing on an assembly line.

Edit: I meant to quote EHR's post but goofed.

I see buck12 is from NW Mississippi. That is near where Toyota is putting in a new BIG plant. There may be some jobs opening up for factory workers on an assembly line.

One could substitute "college" for "high school" in buck12's writing and it would be twice as true.

There are 7 children in ours and my wife's brother's family, (age range is 22 to 34). One has yet to graduate from college. The rest graduated, worked for a bit and all are getting advanced degrees, (some while still working and all on their own dime) because they found a simple bachelors degree wasn't good enough for a really good wage.

When I entered the work force part-time in 1966 in rural Vermont it was not uncommon to have 8th graders NOT go to high school, but to enter the workforce for the jobs which did not require more than basic math and literature skills. There were jobs like "stablehand" to shovel horse manure.

Now it seems 2 years of college are required to shovel horse manure. And the jobs is "Equine Sanitation Engineer".

It's still horse manure.

We have, in this country, fostered the idea that everyone can be GREAT at their job. Anyone can become President. College dropouts can become billionaires.
That is a truly inspiring concept. However there doesn't seem to be the emphasis on everyone being GOOD at their job first.

We've got to face the facts that not ALL the children will be above average. That some children will be left behind, simply because they don't have the native genetic intelligence which can be developed.

And on another matter someone commented on all the money being "wasted" on teachers.

In my neck of the woods it's the administrators that are costing the big bucks. The overhead of administrators and staff that DON'T teach and CAN'T teach has threatened to sink the system.

 

[Grateful11]

I know a "union" worker (he's an electrician) and he can't buy a foreign vehicle! It's against his union's rules. He was talking to me about my tractor and he stated he couldn't buy one because they are made in Japan. How about that? I'm SOOOOO glad I'm not a union worker!

Sorry but I'd have sit and read over his Contract before I believe that one. I know that Unions generally encourage their members to buy American made products but with IAM we've never been told we could not buy a foreign anything.