Changing liner in a mig gun ? ? ?

[Chain Bender]

I finally have gotten used to welding with my Handler 140 and I absolutely love it. BUT, now I'm starting to have some troubles with the wire feed.

I know I've got the feeder wheel set to the appropriate wire size. I've got just enough tension on it that it will feed at the rate the machine is set on. Usually 55-60. Will be welding along feeling good about the welds. Even the upside down ones and the ones straight up and down. Almost looks like I know what I'm doing. THEN all of a sudden I get a birds nest at the feeder wheel and all stops. Cut, pul wire, cur again, sand paper the leading point of the wire before I feed it into the gun. Runs great for a few minutes and then comes another birds nest.

When I first got the machine I was doing a lot of aluminum wire welding. That was a feat in it self. But I finally mastered it and made some really nice ladder deer stands. Have heard that aluminum wire is particullary rough on regular liners.

That's the only thing I can think of that would make this machine jam up as much as it does. I ran almost all the way through a small spool of 0.030" wire with out a problem. Now I've got a big spool on the roller and am having all the problems. Wire isn't rusty. Pretty clean. Tension on the spool is plenty tight.

Any one have any suggestions? How hard is it to replace a liner? I'm thinking about replacing the standard one with a teflon liner. Will that help at all?

thanks in advance for any suggestions,
CB

 

[Rustyiron]

Pretty cheap and easy to put in. While your in the welding place get some of those little felt "wipers" that go on the wire just before the lead.

 

[deereman75]

I cant remember the exact term, but I know there is an adjustment on the spool arbor, that prevents it from free spinning after the wire feed stops. If that is too loose, and you have a fast enough feed speed, it will often birds nest when you stop feeding. Try tightening that before you buy a new liner, it is worth a try. The other thing I can think of is the tip might be too dirty/worn, and that is jamming it up. Try a new tip and that adjustment, and see if that solves it.

 

[Shield Arc]

Have you tried blowing the gun / liner out? I like to use the oxygen bottle without gauge. Remove the gun from the welder, remove the contact tip, place the end of the gun that goes in the welder on the opening of the oxygen bottle and crack the valve.
An ear plug works well for a wire wiper too. What ever you do don't buy the wipers with the lube on them!

 

[Kioti guy]

I have had the problem you describe on occasion with my small lincoln, it happenes when the spool slips on the spindle, that's where i would look first. As far as changing your liner its quite easy ,but before i changed it i would go to your welding supply store and buy some lube pads for the wire, i use them on all three of my wire feed welders. i find that if i don't use the welder regularely the liners will get sticky causing the weld puddle to spatter.
By the way now that you are using your welder for steel wire and not aluminum, if you want to go back to welding aluminum you WILL have to change your liner as AL doesn't like to be contacted by any pieces that have been used for steel,it tend's to corrupt the weld......craig

 

[Kubota-guy1911]

I agree with Shield Arc. Don't use those felt "lubricators" for your wire. A buddy with the same machine I have has had the felt come apart and clog his liner. I have a 185 and I assume yours is similar but a little smaller. I would make sure the entire drive assembly is clean and lubricated per the owners manual. I've had to replace my rollers a couple times but I've never had to replace the liner, although I only run .035 flux core with mine and haven't done any aluminum welding.

kj

 

[Shield Arc]

Another thought, when you run aluminum, what drive rolls do you use? Do you have a set of U-groove rolls, or are you using the V-groove rolls for Mig welding? Please don't tell me you're using serrated drive rolls!

 

[yomax4]

If the Bird nest is after the drive rolls where the wire goes in the gun, You can loosen the feed pressure so that it will spin instead of bird nesting. Easier to unstick a burn back than the hassle of a bird nest. You still have to be aware that your gun still should be kept fairly straight. The more you weld with it while it's twisted, The more friction there is between the wire and the liner. This will scrape a little coating off the wire and cause premature liner failure. But...If you have been running Aluminum through the steel liner, It's probably got some Aluminum fouling in it. If you do buy a new liner, Buy a size larger than the wire you use.

 

[Shield Arc]

Another thing that will cause bird nesting, is too big of a gap between the drive rolls, and the gun. I'm not familiar with the Handler 140 at all, so I don't know if you can adjust the guide tubes or not. Maybe as simple as jamming the gun in further. I always try to have the gun / guide tubes as close to the drive rolls as possible, especially with soft / small diameter wire.

 

[Chain Bender]

Thanks to all for your responses.

Here is what I can tell you as fact and not presumptions.

Birdnest is happening between feeder wheel and where the wire goes into the gun. It's only about 1/2 - 3/4" space there.

Spool is definitely tight enough to stop once the trigger is released.

Not using serated feed wheel.

never have blown out the gun. Sounds like it must be time.

Don't use/have lube pads, but do use the nozzel lube sometimes.

Understand about loosening up the tension on the feed wheel to bare minimum and keeping the gun hose as straight as possible. That was particullary true with the aluminum wire. When tyhrough great pains to keep it as straight as possible.

Will blow out the lne today and report back on the problem.
Thanks much for all suggestions.

CB

 

[radioman]

I have hobart ez125 and had same problem you did. Two things I know that causes birdnesting for sure. broken liner, or bad tip. I'd replace the tip.

If you cant tell if the liner is broken, since its your first time, I'd pull it out and check it for kinks or separation. This will allow you to understand the workings of how hobart liner connects. I also wonder if the liner slipped out where it goes into the gun. I'd twist off the plastic handle and check and make sure its seated right and o ring is ok.

 

[J_J]

Have you tried blowing the gun / liner out? I like to use the oxygen bottle without gauge. Remove the gun from the welder, remove the contact tip, place the end of the gun that goes in the welder on the opening of the oxygen bottle and crack the valve.
An ear plug works well for a wire wiper too. What ever you do don't buy the wipers with the lube on them!

Now you tell us after I have bought and use them.

Is there a good reason for your statement. I appreciate your advice, so give us the straight story as to why not. I thought the purpose was to clean and lube the wire/liner.

I understand about blowing oxygen through the liner after using the lube. Not good

Excerpts:

A high quality liner can provide a more consistent inside diameter through which the welding wire travels, thereby reducing friction and extending the service life of the liner as well as the time that it takes for wire filings to clog the liner—one of the most frequent sources of liner-related downtime. The liner is most susceptible to this problem when the cable is bent too far and increases the friction between the wire and liner.

Other causes of clogged liners include using an incorrect liner size and trimming it improperly. In both cases, the liner can shave metal filings from the welding wire and become clogged, leading to erratic wire feeding, poor weld quality and birdnests. Because the copper stranding in MIG gun cables is wound in a helix pattern, the cable shrinks when it is twisted. Trimming a new liner to the length of a twisted cable can cause the liner to be too short when the cable is straightened out, leaving an empty space in which the welding wire can become lodged and birdnest.


Additional downtime can be saved by using an easily-replaced partial liner that installs from the front of the gun and only goes through the gun’s neck. The most wire-to-liner friction occurs in the neck, so that part of the liner is usually the first to wear out. Rather than spending 20 minutes replacing the entire liner when only that portion becomes worn, some companies offer partial liners that can be changed in as little as two minutes.

http://www.bernardwelds.com/articles/article31.htm

 

[IslandTractor]

I'm confused by you guys who are using regular MIG setups to run aluminum wire. I though spool guns were necessary to run aluminum as it is too soft and pliable to be "pushed" from the machine to the regular gun tip. That is why spool guns were invented so there was less distance to push the aluminum wire. No?

I'd also second JJ's question: what is bad about the felt pads and lubricant for a mig? I admit to having bought a pack and lubricant but have never installed it. My thought was that some of my big rolls of flux core were showing some rust on the surface and that the cleaner/lubricant would be insurance that the wire would feed through the liner more easily.

 

[Shield Arc]

Now you tell us after I have bought and use them.

Is there a good reason for for your statement. I appreciate your advice, so give us the straight story as to why not. I thought the purpose was to clean and lube the wire/liner.

Majority of my welding experience has been with Lincoln's Innershield wire, and LN-22s and LN-25s which both have serrated drive rolls, which eat the wire up. Lincoln's Innershield wire comes with a graphite lube on it. What a mess the wire shavings and graphite lube makes in the Lincoln Innershield guns! We use to blow all the guns out every Friday night before going home, now a days a K-126 gun is over $300.00 and you can't replace the liner in them! After a life time of putting up with the lube on Innershield wire, I refuse to deliberately lube a wire!
Few years ago this very subject came up on the Miller welding forum, one of Miller's moderators stepped in and said he also doesn't recommend lubed pads, dry pads or an ear plug yes.

 

[J_J]

Is it just Lincoln Innershield wire, or others ?

 

[Shield Arc]

Been so long I had to go back out to the shop to make sure.:laughing:
Hobart's Fabshield 21-B has a lube, but not near as heavy as Lincoln's wire.

 

[J_J]

Do you always use name brand wire, and is there a really big difference?

 

[Shield Arc]

You know, I never really thought about it! But looking at that cabinet of wire I guess I do. Few days ago I went to the welding supply, asked for a roll of Lincoln .045 L-56 wire, (love that stuff). They no longer carry Lincoln! Sold me a roll of some wire, but I can't remember the name. Just went out to look, no name on the box, so it must be a no name brand:laughing:. Haven't tried it yet, but the salesman, (known him for 25-years) says everyone likes it better than the L-56.:confused3:

 

[Hooked_on_HP]

I'm confused by you guys who are using regular MIG setups to run aluminum wire. I though spool guns were necessary to run aluminum as it is too soft and pliable to be "pushed" from the machine to the regular gun tip. That is why spool guns were invented so there was less distance to push the aluminum wire. No? .

You can run aluminum through your mig. You have to run the stiffer 5356 wire and not the 4043. The thicker the wire the easier it is to feed. You need to keep the cable of the mig gun pretty strait,and you don't want a lot of tension on the rollers or it will egg shape the wire. Spool guns are much easier and you can run the softer wire. You also need 100% argon.
Bill