VERY expensive beet juice!

[Soundguy]

cacl will rust metal. that said. use precaution. use tubes in tires and rims.

if they leak.. fix them, wash the rim out, repaint and go.

rubber don't rust, neither does paint.

soundguy

I have following this thread with some interest. My 20 year old 5300 has had CaCl filled tires since day one. Last year I snagged a valve stem on a branch and tore it. Noticing the leak, I parked it with stem at the top and used a farm jack to take off the weight. A call to the service truck and $140 had me a new tube and they topped it off.

Bottom line, how many people really have much issue with rear flats and corrosion from the "old" type ballast? Have I just been lucky(first time then) or are we just being sold an expensive solution to a problem that does not exist?

Just asking because I'll have to make a decision when the 5095M is ordered. If it hasn't been stated enough, filled tires make for better operation and safety. If you don't have the cash now for the expensive option, then go with CaCl and enjoy 20+ years of enhanced safety and capability and pay for new rims when/ if the time comes!

 

[Don87]

Yes sir, that pretty well sums it up.

As most of you you know............I'm a truck driver, I'm gone from Sunday til Friday...........that's why the lack of response on my part.

My beef was with the misconception that Methanol is safe.............

Pure Methanol is far from safe.

Methanol is flammable

Methanol is toxic IE: not only by ingesting, but it can be readily absorbed into the body.............Most people don't realize that the 'cuticles'............at the base of ones fingernails(or toemails)..............is almost the same as drinking a toxic liquid.

Soundguy, you are entirely correct in your suggestion to use rubber gloves when handling Methanol.


That is why I mentioned reading the MSDS, and studying "readily abosrbed".

I just hope this thread has saved someones sight............or life

 

[Don87]

I'm on my first tractor. Bought it used so I don't know the history.

Rims didn't look bad from the outside - until I poked the rusty areas with a screwdriver and went right through. My rims have rust through where most of the rim bolt receivers are welded to them, and the rims are thinner due to much rusting inside. Inner tube is crusted with rust flakes and the tire bead area also.

I can't say how long it took for this process to occur - the tractor is 50 years old. I suspect with better maintenance, the problems would have been minimal. Far as I can tell, it is all from leakage at the valve stem that resulted even with a valve stem cap.

In my case, the tractor will be at recreational property for the next few years unattended for weeks or months at a time, and parked inside a dirt floor barn. A leak may escape my attention. Seeing firsthand the results, it just doesn't seem like it's worth the risk for me to use CaCl - once bitten, twice shy I guess.

I don't have a loader, so having the max weight possible isn't so much a concern - CaCl has a definite advantage if you need as much ballast as the tires can support.

Also, since I'll be loading the tires myself, WWF is a lot easier to pump in than a thick solution that has to be mixed on site.
That's my opinion and my situation. For me, WWF (or RV antifreeze if I can get it at a good price) is a better solution.

Rimguard is already mixed from what I've seen(no mixing on site).

While there has been mention of someone possibly getting Rimguard shipped to their house in bulk.......I know personally of no such instances. As far as I know, rimguard is shipped to specific dealers, and installed by them.

Along with 'steel' valve stems' in the case of tubeless tires.

 

[Soundguy]

i've actually found a few dealers websites that claim to ship rim guard. must be in pails or drums?

soundguy

 

[rScotty]

Pure Methanol is far from safe.
Methanol is flammable
Methanol is toxic IE: not only by ingesting, but it can be readily absorbed into the body.............Most people don't realize that the 'cuticles'............at the base of ones fingernails(or toemails)..............is almost the same as drinking a toxic liquid.
I just hope this thread has saved someones sight............or life

That's how I see it too. That stuff - pure methanol...or even fairly dilute methanol.... is just plain dangerous. Plus it attacks some plastics worse than CaCL2 attacks metal. I'm no fan of calcium chloride fill, but at least it is just nasty to work with and kills the soil. It's nowhere near as immediately poisonous as methanol for people. For all the hazard, methanol is not even as heavy as RV antifreeze. Shucks, instead of methanol, why not use gasoline? Gasoline weighs about the same and is arguably less dangerous/poisonous/corrosive.
When I saw the comment about using methanol I figured it was a either a typo or misunderstanding. Still do. I'd find it hard to believe that anyone is actually filling tires with the stuff - or that any of the protective agencies would allow them to. It's got to be something else.
rScotty

 

[IslandTractor]

That's how I see it too. That stuff - pure methanol...or even fairly dilute methanol.... is just plain dangerous. Plus it attacks some plastics worse than CaCL2 attacks metal. I'm no fan of calcium chloride fill, but at least it is just nasty to work with and kills the soil. It's nowhere near as immediately poisonous as methanol for people. For all the hazard, methanol is not even as heavy as RV antifreeze. Shucks, instead of methanol, why not use gasoline? Gasoline weighs about the same and is arguably less dangerous/poisonous/corrosive.
When I saw the comment about using methanol I figured it was a either a typo or misunderstanding. Still do. I'd find it hard to believe that anyone is actually filling tires with the stuff - or that any of the protective agencies would allow them to. It's got to be something else.
rScotty

You apparently have been drinking Don87s koolaid too.

Can you believe that millions of ignorant people buy methanol poison at their local gas stations or supermarkets and pour it into their car WWF tank? And they don't even wear gloves. Can you believe they allow a poison to be sold in a supermarket? Why there must be thousands of deaths each year due to ingestions and spills. And it is so flammable that hundreds of cars just blow up every year in WWF explosions. As you note, gasoline would be safer. And methanol is so corrosive to metal, plastic and rubber that there is a huge WWF reservoir replacement industry. And think of all those cars with melted tires by the side of the road after every snowstorm.

Reality test: all joking aside, do a little investigation and look up methanol related deaths in the USA. The poison centers deal with a dozen or two each year. Nearly all are intentional suicidal ingestions or accidental ingestions by alcoholics. Occasionally there is an industrial accident due to inhalation, typically someone using a methanol solvent in a closed space for prolonged periods. I don't know when the last transcutaneous poisoning was reported but there haven't been any for a few years anyway based on my review of the annual reports of the poison centers. Sure, methanol, like many chemicals used in modern life, can be dangerous, but deaths or serious injury due to methanol toxicity should be automatic qualification for a Darwin Award.

 

[Don87]

You apparently have been drinking Don87s koolaid too.

Can you believe that millions of ignorant people buy methanol poison at their local gas stations or supermarkets and pour it into their car WWF tank? And they don't even wear gloves. Can you believe they allow a poison to be sold in a supermarket? Why there must be thousands of deaths each year due to ingestions and spills. And it is so flammable that hundreds of cars just blow up every year in WWF explosions. As you note, gasoline would be safer. And methanol is so corrosive to metal, plastic and rubber that there is a huge WWF reservoir replacement industry. And think of all those cars with melted tires by the side of the road after every snowstorm.

Reality test: all joking aside, do a little investigation and look up methanol related deaths in the USA. The poison centers deal with a dozen or two each year. Nearly all are intentional suicidal ingestions or accidental ingestions by alcoholics. Occasionally there is an industrial accident due to inhalation, typically someone using a methanol solvent in a closed space for prolonged periods. I don't know when the last transcutaneous poisoning was reported but there haven't been any for a few years anyway based on my review of the annual reports of the poison centers. Sure, methanol, like many chemicals used in modern life, can be dangerous, but deaths or serious injury due to methanol toxicity should be automatic qualification for a Darwin Award.

Post number 50(your post)

I agree that methanol is a great solution (non toxic to plants by the way, just humans who ingest it have trouble). However, you clearly need more than a 10% solution of methanol up in Ontario. I forget the figures to get -30F protection but something in the 30% methanol range is more like it. Cheapest is to buy a 55 gallon drum of methanol (a bit over $100 last time I checked) and then dilute it yourself. A two parts water to one part methanol solution weighs about 8lbs/gallon, a tad less than water but 165 gallons is still 1300lbs. Not bad for the cost.

Someone messing with pure methanol, needs to take proper precautions. It is flammable and highly toxic , and is easily absorbed into a persons body.

 

[Don87]

i've actually found a few dealers websites that claim to ship rim guard. must be in pails or drums?

soundguy

I dunno, anything is possible.
The Rimguard rep told me on the phone that they only ship to dealers in 1,500 gallon tanks.

 

[chrisser]

My local dealer told me he would fill containers that I brought with Rim Guard and that it would cost $3.20/gallon.

 

[Don87]

Cool, that would save taking a large tire to them, or using road service.

 

[SPYDERLK]

You apparently have been drinking Don87s koolaid too.

Can you believe that millions of ignorant people buy methanol poison at their local gas stations or supermarkets and pour it into their car WWF tank? And they don't even wear gloves. Can you believe they allow a poison to be sold in a supermarket? Why there must be thousands of deaths each year due to ingestions and spills. And it is so flammable that hundreds of cars just blow up every year in WWF explosions. As you note, gasoline would be safer. And methanol is so corrosive to metal, plastic and rubber that there is a huge WWF reservoir replacement industry. And think of all those cars with melted tires by the side of the road after every snowstorm.

Reality test: all joking aside, do a little investigation and look up methanol related deaths in the USA. The poison centers deal with a dozen or two each year. Nearly all are intentional suicidal ingestions or accidental ingestions by alcoholics. Occasionally there is an industrial accident due to inhalation, typically someone using a methanol solvent in a closed space for prolonged periods. I don't know when the last transcutaneous poisoning was reported but there haven't been any for a few years anyway based on my review of the annual reports of the poison centers. Sure, methanol, like many chemicals used in modern life, can be dangerous, but deaths or serious injury due to methanol toxicity should be automatic qualification for a Darwin Award.

I think you have given a balanced view. ... Nevertheless, the sky keeps teetering.
larry

 

[Soundguy]

I dunno, anything is possible.
The Rimguard rep told me on the phone that they only ship to dealers in 1,500 gallon tanks.

i didn't do an exhaustive search, but on the 1st page of hits I found a dealer iniowa that claims he will ship anywher einthe CONUS.. My take is he gets it in the 1500g bulk, then repackages into 55g, 35, or 5g quantities and sells.. either truck freight or ups for the 5g pails.

soundguy

 

[Don87]

i didn't do an exhaustive search, but on the 1st page of hits I found a dealer iniowa that claims he will ship anywher einthe CONUS.. My take is he gets it in the 1500g bulk, then repackages into 55g, 35, or 5g quantities and sells.. either truck freight or ups for the 5g pails.

soundguy

That's great, then a person could fill their tires without transporting.

My hope is that Rimguard will eventually sell the beet juice to individuals so that people have more options, and a possible saving on price.

 

[Soundguy]

on the other hand.. a manufacturer, selling to a distribuitor, then out to dealers, and from dealers to the public is the normal way of things. current guy selling the 1500g bulks seems liek the distribuitor, with the individual service shops the dealers. like the one I found in iowa.

but yeah.. better than transporting if it's a pain.. etc. on the other hand if the dealer is local.. transporting in might be cheaper than paying shipping on a 55g drum of the stuff.

soundguy

 

[Don87]

on the other hand.. a manufacturer, selling to a distribuitor, then out to dealers, and from dealers to the public is the normal way of things. current guy selling the 1500g bulks seems liek the distribuitor, with the individual service shops the dealers. like the one I found in iowa.

but yeah.. better than transporting if it's a pain.. etc. on the other hand if the dealer is local.. transporting in might be cheaper than paying shipping on a 55g drum of the stuff.

soundguy

Ya know.......the thing that has puzzled me the most...............

Why is it so expensive...it is after all a by-product(IE: waste)Virtually all sugar content is gone, the product actually has no net value other than it won't freeze til temps get below -30F, and the fact that it is heavy. :confused3::confused3:

 

[chrisser]

I've wondered the same thing, Don.

IMHO, it isn't so much that the retail price of beet juice is out of line with the retail prices of it's competition in this specialized market.

It's that all the alternatives are all available at significant discounts where beet juice is restricted to the retail/service chain.

More power to them if they can make money that way. I think they're pricing themselves out of some otherwise promising markets with that strategy, but it's they're business to run the way they like.

Or at least until someone else figures out the incredibly complicated process of packaging waste beet juice and makes it available for less through alternative channels...

 

[EMB5530]

OK a little off the beaten path of the subject but how do I figure how much fluid a tire will hold.
I will have 16.9x24 rears and12.5/80x18 fronts

Thanks for the assistance:thumbsup:

 

[SPYDERLK]

Ya know.......the thing that has puzzled me the most...............

Why is it so expensive...it is after all a by-product(IE: waste)Virtually all sugar content is gone, the product actually has no net value other than it won't freeze til temps get below -30F, and the fact that it is heavy. :confused3::confused3:

Its used with salts for more effective road treatment.
Snow removal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

larry