VERY expensive beet juice!

[MikeD74T]

Shall we rename this thread: "As the post count soars....! " ? MikeD74T

 

[Soundguy]

i'm just surprised it hasn't been pruned yet. looks awfully similar to the welding thread i was in that got pruned. Big grey area between differing opinions and argument... I guess the err is on the less tolerant side.

the posts pretty much speak for themselves, and IMHO.. are / should be common knowledge.

eg af is decently cheap as af's go, however is toxic to people and animals if ingested. small spills are / can be quickly mitigated, even if it is just allowing it to soak intot he ground and no pool where it can be consumed

pg af is a much better choice if toxicity is a nagging issue on someone's mind. in some cases.. it costs a bit more.. etc.

cacl is about as cheap as you get.. gells the heck out of most plants if spilled, clenup of a spill to mitigate damge would likely include removeal and backfill of material. if it's in an unlined rim, and is not monitored, and damage mitigated as seen, there will be corosion issues. ( use a tube and clean up leaks, and it's pretty cheap and heavy )

wwf / methanol. price appears to be across the board. some places cheap.. some not. not as heavy.. but better than a slap in the face when you need ballast... the pre-diluted stuff you buy in the jugs for your car.. while I'd imagine it's still very toxic to drink, just getting a lil on your hands sloshing it into a tank or tube, ain't gonna killya. methanol straight from a concentrated drum? ok.. wear rubber gloves and don't huff right out of the bung cover... kinda the same safety pracidices you might ractice handling other chemicals in the shop like paint reducers, etc... try not to get much on ya.. don't drink it or use the can as a funny respirator.

beet juice, in various brands.... probably by far the most expensive, and from the charts, way up there competeing for weight with cacl, with less corrosion issues, apparrently at least with the new stuff. probbaly not good to drink or mix in coffee.. but in reasonable quantities, not specifically toxic if you get some sloshed on ya or a bit of it runns downt he tank side wile fillg a bucket. I wouldn't advise using it as a water coloring agent for an in ground fish pond... just because...

that about sum it up?

soundguy

 

[canoetrpr]

that about sum it up?
soundguy

That's about the best summary of the subject I have seen on here. If PG was not such a rip off in cold parts of the world, I think that is all we would ever be using.

Perhaps my only very slight complaint with your analysis might be that you are a bit harsh on wwf/methanol. Granted it is less weight than water/PG but probably about 70% of pure water weight? Not as good as CaCl2 or straight water, but perhaps just being better than a slap in the face is a bit harsh . Water would be ~1200 lb of ballast for me. WWF I think will be ~850lb.

 

[Soundguy]

Perhaps my only very slight complaint with your analysis might be that you are a bit harsh on wwf/methanol. Granted it is less weight than water/PG but probably about 70% of pure water weight? Not as good as CaCl2 or straight water, but perhaps just being better than a slap in the face is a bit harsh . Water would be ~1200 lb of ballast for me. WWF I think will be ~850lb.

I think you are 100% misinterpreting my 'analysis' of wwf. all of these I mentioned are 'in comparison' to straight water ballasting.. since wwf/water is the lightest of the items mentioned.. that's why I gave it the tounge in cheek 'bettern a slap in the face' moniker.


soundguy

 

[k0ua]

i'm just surprised it hasn't been pruned yet. looks awfully similar to the welding thread i was in that got pruned. Big grey area between differing opinions and argument... I guess the err is on the less tolerant side.

the posts pretty much speak for themselves, and IMHO.. are / should be common knowledge.

eg af is decently cheap as af's go, however is toxic to people and animals if ingested. small spills are / can be quickly mitigated, even if it is just allowing it to soak intot he ground and no pool where it can be consumed

pg af is a much better choice if toxicity is a nagging issue on someone's mind. in some cases.. it costs a bit more.. etc.

cacl is about as cheap as you get.. gells the heck out of most plants if spilled, clenup of a spill to mitigate damge would likely include removeal and backfill of material. if it's in an unlined rim, and is not monitored, and damage mitigated as seen, there will be corosion issues. ( use a tube and clean up leaks, and it's pretty cheap and heavy )

wwf / methanol. price appears to be across the board. some places cheap.. some not. not as heavy.. but better than a slap in the face when you need ballast... the pre-diluted stuff you buy in the jugs for your car.. while I'd imagine it's still very toxic to drink, just getting a lil on your hands sloshing it into a tank or tube, ain't gonna killya. methanol straight from a concentrated drum? ok.. wear rubber gloves and don't huff right out of the bung cover... kinda the same safety pracidices you might ractice handling other chemicals in the shop like paint reducers, etc... try not to get much on ya.. don't drink it or use the can as a funny respirator.

beet juice, in various brands.... probably by far the most expensive, and from the charts, way up there competeing for weight with cacl, with less corrosion issues, apparrently at least with the new stuff. probbaly not good to drink or mix in coffee.. but in reasonable quantities, not specifically toxic if you get some sloshed on ya or a bit of it runns downt he tank side wile fillg a bucket. I wouldn't advise using it as a water coloring agent for an in ground fish pond... just because...

that about sum it up?

soundguy

I think that about sums it up.

By the way I checked on Polyethylene Glycol (RV antifreeze -50F) at noon today and it is $3.97 per gallon at Wally World.

James K0UA

 

[Soundguy]

yep.. af's are going on sale here all over the place. our carquest has it for 3.50

people starting to gear up for the cold.. in the past I have seen enormouse prices for the stuff.. 2x+ as much..

soundguy

 

[IslandTractor]

Water would be ~1200 lb of ballast for me. WWF I think will be ~850lb.

WWF is much heavier than you suggest. Water is a bit over 8.3lbs per gallon. WWF is something around 7.7 lbs/gallon. Pure methanol (DANGER: TOXIC TOXIC TOXIC (available at your local pharmacy, hardware store or fuel dealer)) is 6.2 lbs/gallon. Most WWF is 20%-30% methanol. (8.3x.7) + (6.2x.3)=7.7lbs/gallon for 30%. Or, another way of looking at it is that WWF 30% methanol is about 92% as heavy as plain water.

So, if plain water is 1200lbs for your tractor, 30% methanol would be about 1100lbs. Not bad.

Don't forget it is dangerous to drink, bathe in or snort methanol.

 

[canoetrpr]

So, if plain water is 1200lbs for your tractor, 30% methanol would be about 1100lbs. Not bad.

Not bad at all.

 

[aczlan]

Don't forget it is dangerous to drink, bathe in or snort methanol.

What if you sniff it?

Aaron Z

 

[chrisser]

Whew! Just read all 28 pages.

I'm in a similar quandry to what canoetrpr was experiencing, evaluating the various ballast fluids.

In my case, the tractor will be on a piece of recreational property, so it will sit for extended periods. A(nother - I just got new rims) CaCl leak could go unnoticed until we visit again.

Best prices I can find is at TSC with $3/gallon for rv antifreeze and $2.29/gallon for -20F WWF.

Parts store sells both in 55 gallon drums - but it actually costs more per gallon that way (!?) and then I have to muscle around a couple of 55 gallon drums. I can't find anyone who has the stuff in bulk cheaper than buying the 90 or so gallons individually at TSC.

(BTW, TSC has a 5% discount on a pallet of the rv antifreeze, but you have to buy all 210 gallons that come on the pallet).

I even looked for Propylene Glycol and Methanol, but every source is more expensive than just buying 1 gallon jugs of WWF.

I still have to check WalMart (they don't post their prices online).

Sure wish there was a place that I could buy 5 gallon pails of either RV AF or -20 WWF (or PG or Methanol) at a better price, but if it's out there, I haven't found it yet.

I can get RimGuard (beet juice) from the local dealer at $3.20/gallon if I bring my own containers.

 

[RaydaKub]

Wonder if anyone ever tried filling one with plain old sand?
How much is a barrel full of glass marbles? Or steel BBs?

Having liquid in the wheels means that it flows easily from back to front, over the top, etc. Putting sand or some other flow-able solid will rob you of a whole bunch of horsepower just getting the back side up so it falls over to the front. And if you've ever seen sand flow, it isn't a consistent motion. It stops and starts repeatedly. Not something you'd want to experience in a tire, I'm sure.

 

[canoetrpr]

Parts store sells both in 55 gallon drums - but it actually costs more per gallon that way (!?) and then I have to muscle around a couple of 55 gallon drums. I can't find anyone who has the stuff in bulk cheaper than buying the 90 or so gallons individually at TSC.

chrisser: I found the same thing about 55 gallon drums initially (Napa quote was $170 or so per drum). I called around to fuel oil places and found that they carry all kinds of bulk automotive liquids. Bought it at $120 a drum delivered + $50 deposit per drum. I'll be taking the drums back once I am done with them.

I might have been able to get a better price at Walmart but getting three drums delivered to my door sure was convenient.

 

[IslandTractor]

Whew! Just read all 28 pages.

I'm in a similar quandry to what canoetrpr was experiencing, evaluating the various ballast fluids.
.....
I even looked for Propylene Glycol and Methanol, but every source is more expensive than just buying 1 gallon jugs of WWF.
.....
Sure wish there was a place that I could buy 5 gallon pails of either RV AF or -20 WWF (or PG or Methanol) at a better price, but if it's out there, I haven't found it .

Have you tried getting a 55 gallon drum of methanol from a fuel distributor rather than through a retail outlet? I haven't checked this year but last year 55 gallons of methanol was about $130. That can be mixed with about 90-100 gallons of water to give essentially WWF at about a buck a gallon.

 

[Travelover]

I was at Costco today and they have a 6 gallon package of WWF for $9 - so a buck and a half a gallon.

 

[foggy1111]

I was at Costco today and they have a 6 gallon package of WWF for $9 - so a buck and a half a gallon.

Ding Ding Ding We have a winner! (provided it was -30 antifreeze) :thumbsup:

 

[chrisser]

I was at Costco today and they have a 6 gallon package of WWF for $9 - so a buck and a half a gallon.

I'm not a member (although I've considered it), but I did check their web site and they didn't list WWF at all.

I guess some things don't make it onto the web site?

 

[Diamondpilot]

I think that about sums it up.

By the way I checked on Polyethylene Glycol (RV antifreeze -50F) at noon today and it is $3.97 per gallon at Wally World.

James K0UA

Crazy prices you pay for stuff in your parts of the world. My Menards has Peak RV antifreeze for $2.49 per gallon with a $1.50 mail in rebate. Just mailed my rebate in today. Total cost is $.99 per gallon plus the stamp.

Same thing with WWF. I can buy a 55 gallon container for about $40 at my local oil supplier. Its how I filled the rears of my tractor. Put 22 gallons a side then put the rest in saved up gallon milk jugs marked -20 WWF so no one mistakes it as Kool-Aid. Down to my last 3 gallons.

Even at WalMart I can buy -20 WWF all day long for about $1.50 per gallon.

Chris

 

[Travelover]

I'm not a member (although I've considered it), but I did check their web site and they didn't list WWF at all.

I guess some things don't make it onto the web site?

Lots of stuff on the web not at stores and vice versa, for Costco.

 

[Soundguy]

What if you sniff it?

Aaron Z

I said no huffing



soundguy