Traction Heavy Tractor vs Light in Soft Sand

[eldumpogrande]

I'm farily new to tractors and own 30 acres, much of which is rather soft sand, especially when plowed up. I'm interested in a Mahindra 4530, 4WD with R4 tires, and it weighs nearly 7400 lbs. with the FEL. I know weight is generally considered a good thing for traction, but I'm wondering if heavy weight tractors will bog down in this type of soil more than a lighter weight tractor, such as a Kubota L44, which weighs considerably less. I'm also wondering if the heavy weight tractor will rut the soil badly once coastal bermuda is growing (assuming we ever get any rain to grow it). Would greatly appreciate input from anyone experienced in such, especially if they farm near Seguin/Stocdale, TX area. -Thanks in advance.

 

[KU Gator]

Growing up in central Florida, a lot of the tractors, especially those used in groves, used a grove tire like turf tires. The intent was to get more flotation and have the tire up on top of the sand. I didn't really operate any much. I think the tractor we had in Ag class was a 2wd Case which seemed to do ok. When I was in that area about a year ago, I visited a nephew's property which he shares with his in-laws. His Father-in-law was a retired grove manager. They had bought a basic L series Kubota and had turf or grove tires on it. They were using it for truck crop planting in very sandy soil and seemed happy with its performance.

 

[eldumpogrande]

Thanks Gator. That's the kind of input I was hoping for.

 

[oldnslo]

Not sure how well this applys but my uncle dairy farms sand hills in central Minnesota with traditional ag tractors. I have never noticed ruts etc. in his hay fields. I think his main tractors are around 100 HP JD's. He has never used duals either.

 

[eldumpogrande]

Thanks Oldnslo. The JD 100 HP tractor obviously weighs more than what I'm looking at, so it sounds like I probably don't have to worry about sinking into the sand with a tractor in the range of 7400 lbs.

 

[JoeL4330]

some might argue that it is not the weight of the machine, but the bearing weight on the ground. For a pneumatic tire, that is, in fact, the psi in the tire (as long as the rim is not on the ground ...not loaded, obviously).

so, you "air down", making sure that your tire size can support the weight of the machine at low psi ...that is, wide-wide-wide ...sometimes referred to as "high-flotation" tires ... you might be interested in this site: Tractor Tire & Implement Tire Application Guide

see also: Titan International | America's Best Since 1898
which states: "Terra-Tire is a specifically designed high flotation tire. The large ground contact area of Terra-Tire flotation tires effectively distributes load over a relatively broad area, providing a reduction in unit ground pressure in comparison to conventional tires. This reduction in ground pressure means less soil compaction and less ground disturbance熔n the farm or on the golf course. It also means improved mobility, permitting the Terra-Tire to traverse mud or snow or soft sand that would often bog down a conventional tire."

The other alternative, of course, is a tracked vehicle which, because of the large contact area of the tracks, puts very little bearing pressure (psi) on the ground.

Of course, lighter is better in the sense that you don't need such humongous tires (or tracks) but you need to have enough HP to do the job at hand and enough traction, as well.

Maybe this helps

 

[eldumpogrande]

Joel4330, I checked out the links. You get a 100 on the scorecard for answering my question. I had no idea there were so many different types of tires. All I've come across at the dealers were R-1, R-4, or turf (or golf) choices. The Titan site really gives an excellent explanation. I see that weight is only part of the formula, and as you pointed out, inflation level and width are additional factors. Of course going to higher flotation tires means losing traction because of reduced tread. So now I have to decide which is more important for my use - floation vs traction. Thanks very much for your info. Really helps.

 

[tungularafishcamp]

My l2800 spends half of its working life on the beach.(small shale chips and sand) I went with duals front and rear with ag tires and am real happy with it. I can't load it on the skiff with the duals on and it will barely bring itself up the beach without them much less anything else. I was limited in size by what I could fit on the boat but I don't think for sand size matters, just need enuff floatation and traction.

A neighbor got a bx with turf tires and it floats on the sand well until he is working it then it just spins in the loose sand.
Rick

 

[Mace Canute]

Here's a site that shows many of the different tread designs available.

Firestone Agricultural Tire Division

 

[eldumpogrande]

Thanks tungularfishcamp. Your friend using high flotation tires and not getting traction when working them is telling me I probably should go with the R-4 tires as a compromise between turf and regular Ag (R-1) tires. At least l they'll be wider than the R-1 and still have tread for pulling ground-engaging attachments.

Mace, saw the firestone pics. Thanks.

 

[JoeL4330]

ElDumpoGrande: glad info was helpful. As for traction in sand, I believe you still want flotation; trying for traction with aggressive tread means digging in deeper, quicker. And, "industrial" tires, designed to support loader operations, generally have stiff sidewalls so that airing down doesn't give you as much flotation.

Lots of info in the 4-wheeling community about "dune-ing". Whatever you choose, if sand is your predominant surface, I definitely wouldn't load the tires so that "airing down" is practical when called for ...and, maybe an on-board compressor for airing back up (although the volume of tractor tires is so large that airing up would really take some doing.)

Hope everything works out.

 

[cowski]

heavy tractor with radials.

 

[Dargo]

Actually cupped 'paddle' type tires that are sometimes used in rice fields will provide the best traction in soft sand. If there were any better tires for sand, they would use them on these machines. ‪CANIDAE Sand Drag‬‏ - YouTube

 

[JoeL4330]

heavy tractor with radials.

agree with radials, as radial construction allows greater sidewall flex as compared to bias-ply tires.

And, yes, cupped tires as described aim to combine flotation and traction.

 

[Reg]

Actually cupped 'paddle' type tires that are sometimes used in rice fields will provide the best traction in soft sand. If there were any better tires for sand, they would use them on these machines. ‪CANIDAE Sand Drag‬‏ - YouTube

I was about to suggest rice paddie tires, they were "standard" at one time on some Asian and Chinese imports - they may still be an available option.
I am fairly sure that I have seen tires similar to what are on that Youtube video on a JD small Cat 1 tractor recently.
I will be at that farm tomorrow and will try to remember to check it out.
Less "aggressive", but a similar pattern.

Yes to the other comments that pressure is pressure (-:
GENERALLY standard R1s offered will be narrower and have a higher ground pressure than the optional R4s or R3 turfs - - from many/most tractor manufacturers.
DRY sand probably won't clog turfs, wet "clay sand" probably will, wet "sandy loam" can, but how wet will you work the ground ?
Sandy loam drains SO quickly around here anyway that I barely have time to start the tractor up and attach an implement before it is "dry" (-:

I've mentioned it before, there are exceptions to this - for manufacturers standard size optional tire/wheel combinations the R4s will not only be wider with a lower ground pressure than R1s, they will also have a larger fluid capacity.
So IF you need ballast and decide you need it in the tires the R4s will GENERALLY get you more of it.

Again, rutting is usually more a function of taking sharp turns on wet soil than the actual tread pattern - also of driving with the tractor wheels in EXACTLY the same "slot" all the time. Just nudge over a couple of feet on return runs, if you see ruts developing drive ON the RIDGES (-:

 

[eldumpogrande]

Reg/Dargo/JoeL4330/cowski:

Even though the Mahindra dealership I've been talking with is good, I've definitely learned more about tires on this site than I ever could from them. Thanks to you and everyone else who responded previously. -I've inquired about radials, and that's a no go, at least thru Mahindra. Interesting about the rice paddie tires, but that's a no go, too. Since I'm looking to buy new (and a Mahindra) I've only got the options to use their R1, R3, or R4 standard poly tires, so I'll be going with the latter. Reg, like you were saying about your sandy soil, mine also drains off very fast after an inch of rain, for example, but when there is a long saturating rain, the water finds a shelf of impervious clay about 2 feet down, and it sits there, leaving the sandy soil mushy. (Not that it rains like that in Texas anymore.) Of course, no matter what type of tires I've got under those circumstances, the tractor will probably just be sitting in the barn. Someone asked about how I'll be using the tractor. Mainly, using discs or tines, digging post holes, and, of course, shredding. I also have a lot of grapple work to do, moving big tree limbs and brush.

 

[DaHo]

Eldump, how did the R4's work out? I have a farm in East Texas and we have real fine sand, some people call it sugar sand. My Ford 1700 has Ag tires and it does tend to dig in if it gets in a bind. It is 4WD so that dont happen often but it dosent have a FEL. Sometime when using my box blade to move dirt it has to much weight and digs in so I have to raise the box blade and let some dirt out.

I am looking to purchase another tractor in the next month with a FEL so I am researching the best tire tread design. Thats how I came across your thread.

 

[blueriver]

I have sand here as well ... one tractor has R4's and one has R1's ... I seriously have a preference for field work ... the R1's seem to be better ...If the wife wants something moved in the yard then I come in with the R4's

 

[eldumpogrande]

DaHo,

Athens, huh? Been there a number of times when in the Tyler area. At any rate, R4s have been good, especially when making the first or second pass with discs. A little spinning involved, however, if making third run with the discs as the sand gets loser. All in all, happy though. Think maybe my sandy soil isn't as lose as some of the others who replied. Flotation seems ample enough with the R4s.