Newbie needs advice, please!

[k0ua]

Well a couple of thoughts, keep in mind I am a Kubota kind of guy,
First I would do my own research on the specs of the two tractors you are looking at, I would not believe everything a salesguy says. As for the weight, I am not sure the heavier Kioti will help on slopes all that much, as the weight if up higher in the chassis of the tractor. Now that said, more weight in a tractor does allow you to push or pull more, all else being equal. Of course if you are worried about making impressions in a lawn, then weight is not so good. Now loaded tires with the weight down low mostly below the chassis will definately help with stability on slopes. I would think the extra weight in the chassis would help with the loader. I believe Kioti's machine of an equal size to Kubota have more powerful loaders, and would need to be ballasted on the 3 Point Hitch with something to counteract that lift ability, or else the rear tires lift off of the ground. (not a good thing) Another consideration is There are Kubota dealers everywhere you go, and there are not as many Kioti dealers, but Kioti has been around enough now to be pretty well established, and if you have a dealership near you that you trust, you should be good to go.

Now all that said, I have a Kubota, and I have some real slopes, down here in branson, and I am not having any trouble, I have a 750lb ballast on the back and loaded tires. I would be looking at other things between the models like features and resale value. You may find more features in the Kioti, depending on what models you are comparing, (you did not say) but they have traditionally sold for quite a bit less than Kubota, so I am a little confused as to why the Kioti is more money upfront. Also on resale the Kubota will generally bring a bit more. and is usually a little more up front. So I do not understand the pricing. Bottom line I think they are both great tractors, just compare specs, and if you come across something you don't understand, come back here, and we will try to help.

James K0UA

 

[MountainMomma]

Just so you all know:the specs were from manufacturer flyers, and the salesman pointed out the difference. Specs:

Kioti is a DK 35; Hydro + loader: $19,200 cash/ 22,800 financed. Tractor weighs with ROPS and AG tires 3,668 lbs.

Kubota: last year's model (last one left on the lot, so last year's price, or so they say): $L3700HSD + loader: $17,500 cash/ $18,500 financed. Weight w/ROPS: 2568 lbs.

I just noticed the difference in specs: Kioti's number is with tires; Kubota's is with just ROPS==no tires. How much of a difference do tires make in weight, I wonder?

FWIW:60" rotary blade bush hog for Kioti is $1452; for Kubota is $1700.

 

[eastexan]

Something very important if you buy used, is to make sure it has factory rollover protection (ROPS).
Older tractors to mid 70's didn't have them. Later tractors came with them but many have been taken off by the owners for various reasons.

This could save your life if your tractor ever tips over on a hill or flips over backward. Be sure and read the "Safety Forum" here.

 

[k0ua]

Just so you all know:the specs were from manufacturer flyers, and the salesman pointed out the difference. Specs:

Kioti is a DK 35; Hydro + loader: $19,200 cash/ 22,800 financed. Tractor weighs with ROPS and AG tires 3,668 lbs.

Kubota: last year's model (last one left on the lot, so last year's price, or so they say): $L3700HSD + loader: $17,500 cash/ $18,500 financed. Weight w/ROPS: 2568 lbs.

FWIW:60" rotary blade bush hog for Kioti is $1452; for Kubota is $1700.

Oh, boy, this hurts, being a Kubota guy, but I would recomend you buy the Kioti, It has several good features, (telescoping adjusters, extendable links, rear remote) Suspension seat, lifts over 400 more lbs on the front end loader, about 400 more on the 3pt. All that for just a little more. the L3700HST, is just like my L3400HST, just a couple more horsepower. But is like mine it is an "economy" tractor, the Kioti you are looking at is more towards a Grand L Kubota,, They are just not in the same class. They are as far as horsepower, but not abilitys...Again hate to say this.. Kioti if you trust the dealer will be there when you need him.

James K0UA

 

[MountainMomma]

Wow, thanks, James! That's a great help. I like the Kioto dealer best of all I've met so far. It's hard for a newbie just learning terms to know where the apples compare more importantly.

 

[MountainMomma]

Something very important if you buy used, is to make sure it has factory rollover protection (ROPS).
Older tractors to mid 70's didn't have them. Later tractors came with them but many have been taken off by the owners for various reasons.

This could save your life if your tractor ever tips over on a hill or flips over backward. Be sure and read the "Safety Forum" here.

Thanks... but I'm actually looking at new tractors right now...

 

[k0ua]

Wow, thanks, James! That's a great help. I like the Kioto dealer best of all I've met so far. It's hard for a newbie just learning terms to know where the apples compare more importantly.

Glad to be of some help, if you want to compare your DK35 Kioti to a Kubota, you would be closer comparing to a Grand L like a 3540. I think that clears up the price confusion I had earlier, you will likely find the Kubota Grand L 3540 to be more money than the Kioti. They are pretty close in features tho the Grand L will likely come with HST+ which is some electronic control of the hydro unit. to detailed to go into here, but you can look it up. By the way I fully appluad your choice of a Hydrostatic transmission, I think you will be much better served with one, I know I would not be without one. So If you have trust in the dealer, and of course you should spend some time driving the Kioti, and see if you like it, but if all that comes in favorably, then I think you would be well served by the Kioti. What ever you decide on, please come back to all of us here and let us know, preferably with pictures.:thumbsup: So many take the advice, buy something, and we never know what happened to them. Good luck

James K0UA

 

[56FordGuy]

FWIW:60" rotary blade bush hog for Kioti is $1452; for Kubota is $1700.

Just so you know, you can buy any brand three point hitch implement and use on any brand tractor. The hitches usually come in three sizes, called classes. Class One and Class Two are the most common, the only real difference being the Class Two has bigger pins to attach with. A class one tractor will attach to any class one implement, regardless of brand. Some PTO powered implements like tillers and rotary cutters (brush hogs) have minimum horsepower requirements, but if your tractor has the power to run them then you should be able to use any of them.

 

[Grandad4]

I'll second Jame's comments about the DK35. The L3540 is the most comparable Kubota, not the L3700 (you need a scorecard to keep all the model numbers straight... someone mentioned there are more than 75 different Kubota models alone :confused2: ... totally confusing for someone just getting started ).

The DK35 and the L3540 are quite comparable in their specifications. The DK is a bit heavier, but not 1000 lbs, lifts slightly more with the loader, but the L lifts considerably more on the 3 point lift in back. For doing basic tractor work, they would each do about the same job, and it would be the owner's preference and pocketbook that decides which one he or she buys.

Analogies only go so far, but you might think of Toyota (Japan) and Hyundai (Korea) in automobiles. Kubota (Japan) came to the US in the 1960's and has built up a good reputation and market position ever since. Kioti (Korea) is doing the same thing but started more recently. Kioti - comparatively a new kid on the block - competes by offering more value for the dollar, just like Kubota did when it was the new kid. Maybe you'd save some with the Kioti, but there are some Kubota dealers who would work hard to earn your business.

All that said, if you compare similar Kubota and Kioti equipment, neither one is going to be significantly more "tippy" on slopes... you'll have to exercise every bit as much care and caution when using either one. I think maybe there was a bit of "salesman talk" going on with that comment from the Kioti dealer.

I'd urge you to keep shopping. You've made a nice start and the DK35 is a good candidate for what you will be doing. Check out the Kubota Lxx40 (3540, 3940, 4240, etc.) for comparison. Your Deere dealer will have some to look at, as will Ford/New Holland, and maybe Massey Ferguson, Case IH, and others.

Size up the dealers also. Particularly as a beginner, you'll want to do business with someone who is stable and earns your trust.

 

[IslandTractor]

Some very good and balanced advice has already been offered. James K0UA in particular has hit on important points.

I started the same sort of abandoned land recovery work about seven or eight years ago. My major mistakes all involved not having big enough equipment. I moved from riding mower to DR brush mower to 21 hp Kioti CK20 to 40hp Kioti DK40se. I think I finally got it right. It would have been cheaper and a lot faster if I'd gone right to the 40hp class machine but I did learn a lot along the way.

Like most new buyers, I was originally focused on Kubota. Those are the standard by which others are judged but that comes at a price. Because I dawdled so long on TBN before purchasing, I became familiar with other brands and associated trade offs. My then local Kioti dealer was only half a mile from the Kubota place so it was easy to compare. Bottom line for me was that by the time I was ready to buy I was comfortable with the Kioti and when the dealer took in a 25hr trade up I was able to buy it at significant savings. I knew I had to do most mainenance myself so the big Kubota dealer network was not an advantage for me. My experience with the CK20 was so positive that when I realized I needed bigger I literally bought the DK40se sight unseen from a trusted dealer. Zero regrets. The equivalent Kubota would be the older ?L4130 as the current Lxx40 series has a newer generation transmission. Otherwise the DK series compares pretty much point for point with the Lxx40 tractors of same horsepower. Major differences are price and resale which are both higher for Kubota and loader strength which varies by model but usually favors Kioti. Dealer network is overall a big plus for Kubota but if the local Kioti dealer is good, convenient and well established that is not such a factor. I bought from a dealer 300 miles away and get support via phone, TBN and UPS. No complaints.

I often use the Toyota/Hyundai analogy myself comparing Kubota and Kioti. One is the industry leader and the other is coming on fast and is already the value leader. I would be happy with either and really don't see any other brand as being either better engineered than Kubota or a better value than Kioti. JD costs more than Kubota and the many smaller companies like Branson, TYM, Montana etc are not as well established or stable as Kioti. That said, nearly all modern diesel tractors are very good.

 

[TripleR]

Like James, I am more inclined to buy Kubota, however we do own other brands. Of the two models mentioned, I would buy Kioti. One thing not mentioned is the frequently encountered "jerky 3-point hitch on these models of Kubota, it bothers some but not others.

In an apples to apples comparison ie, a L40 Series, my choice would be the Kubota regardless of cost as they just fit me better. Before buying, go drive both "comparable" models and you will know which one fits you the best.

The good news is that no matter which brand you buy, you will have an excellent machine.

 

[MarkV]

Welcome to the forum and congratulations on the new property. You are getting good advice and it sounds like you are moving right along in your search. I thought I would mention a few other things that you should consider before finishing a deal.

Your property sounds like it has rolling hills with some steep places. Many of us would recommend that you have the dealer "load" the tires before delivery. What that refers to is putting liquid in the rear tires, loading them, as ballast. That added weight near the ground helps add stability to the tractor when working on hills. Many of us would not own a tractor that did not have "loaded" tires.

Some tractors have the ability to set the width of the rear tires in different positions. For hilly terrain the widest setting is what you want for stability. I would have the dealer do that for you if it is an option on whatever you buy.

I found the prices you were quoted for a 5' rotary mower to be high. It might be worth shopping around some more. I also wonder if a 6' mower would be better suited for the size tractor you are buying.

A final thought. It sounds as if you have already met some of the local full time farmers. They will most likely know all the dealers in your area as well as their reputations. Discuss your quotes and wants with them and see what they have to say.

Good luck,
MarkV

 

[MountainMomma]

THANKS for all the helpful info!

OK, so here's a curve ball. Our new farm is located in a friendly farming community where we have good contacts and hiring work is not exorbitant. Examples:

1. I have a current bid for clearing many of our multiflora rose bushes (these are huge and probably cover about 1/5 of our acreage, currently) for 40 hours = $2400. The guy would bring his own tractor, spend his gas and time, and use his expertise to pull the rose bushes and put them in burn piles as he went.

2. An excavator will come and ditch/grade/set gravel to about 50' of driveway for about $1,000--cost of all materials, equipment, and labor included.

3. We have realized that post-hole digging is one thing, and tamping/setting posts is another. Since we don't have much time on the farm, hiring fence building seems wise. We have a current bid of 800' 5-string barbed wire (for cows) for $2100.

Now... you see where this is going. Would it not be wise for this first year for us to hire out some of these tractor-heavy jobs? If we put money into fences this year instead of a tractor, and hire out the excavating-type work and rose bush removal, our land can quickly be rented to a neighboring farmer (who has 1000 acres in production with cattle and wants more pasture, and who is friendly and would probably be willing/able to knock down what the cattle don't eat) who would run cows this summer, and this would both minimize the need for bush hogging AND give us status to be able to write off fences on a schedule F, as part of his farm operation, legally.

I know you all love tractors, and buying one is a thrilling prospect, but do you think that for a couple of urban farmer wannabes with limited capital, it seems more prudent to hire as we go?

AND: our grass-mowing needs (for actual lawn around the farmhouse and along our 1/4 mile driveway) are fairly manageable, but I think we need some kind of smaller machine for hauling/mowing. If you agree with the direction above, what size lawn tractor or garden tractor (and make, model, etc. -- or used?) might you steer us towards?

AGAIN: TIA!

 

[TripleR]

MountainMomma, if all you are interested in is having the work done rather than doing the work, your model makes perfect sense from a fiscal stand point. As you have gathered, most on here like the DIY approach and derive as much pleasure from the journey as the destination. It would be cheaper for my wife and I to hire out most of our work and our renters would do much of it free, but we enjoy the work.

For mowing, check the many threads on this subject, ZTR v tractor etc., there are a lot of good models out there. My wife prefers her BX2660 over a lawn or garden tractor for its versatility and John Deere X Series are great mowers and so on. Good luck.

 

[bironacad]

THANKS for all the helpful info!

OK, so here's a curve ball. Our new farm is located in a friendly farming community where we have good contacts and hiring work is not exorbitant. Examples:

1. I have a current bid for clearing many of our multiflora rose bushes (these are huge and probably cover about 1/5 of our acreage, currently) for 40 hours = $2400. The guy would bring his own tractor, spend his gas and time, and use his expertise to pull the rose bushes and put them in burn piles as he went.

2. An excavator will come and ditch/grade/set gravel to about 50' of driveway for about $1,000--cost of all materials, equipment, and labor included.

3. We have realized that post-hole digging is one thing, and tamping/setting posts is another. Since we don't have much time on the farm, hiring fence building seems wise. We have a current bid of 800' 5-string barbed wire (for cows) for $2100.

Now... you see where this is going. Would it not be wise for this first year for us to hire out some of these tractor-heavy jobs? If we put money into fences this year instead of a tractor, and hire out the excavating-type work and rose bush removal, our land can quickly be rented to a neighboring farmer (who has 1000 acres in production with cattle and wants more pasture, and who is friendly and would probably be willing/able to knock down what the cattle don't eat) who would run cows this summer, and this would both minimize the need for bush hogging AND give us status to be able to write off fences on a schedule F, as part of his farm operation, legally.

I know you all love tractors, and buying one is a thrilling prospect, but do you think that for a couple of urban farmer wannabes with limited capital, it seems more prudent to hire as we go?

AND: our grass-mowing needs (for actual lawn around the farmhouse and along our 1/4 mile driveway) are fairly manageable, but I think we need some kind of smaller machine for hauling/mowing. If you agree with the direction above, what size lawn tractor or garden tractor (and make, model, etc. -- or used?) might you steer us towards?

AGAIN: TIA!

There was a similar thread a couple of days ago. My response was along the lines of your thoughts but tractors are nice.

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...w-here-looking-some-advice-2.html#post2358966

 

[DAY]

I read your first post, and had a thought, one that I held thru reading the rest, up to this last one.

I think you are on target in getting local help! Not only will the transfer of cash be welcome, but you will learn a great deal about 'farming' in the process. Let everybody (church, etc) know what you are up to, and maybe a "loaner" tractor will appear. Something 20-30 years old, with 5,000 well cared for hours, hopefully with a loader. Every dairy farmer has one that is "retired" from heavy labor, but is used to clean out the barn, maybe pull a manure spreader. There is not a good market for such a machine, because everybody already has one! If you like it and the price is low, you get a starter tractor and he gets to go buy a new(er) one.
By the way, four wheel drive and hydro transmissions are "new"; 30 years ago farmers got by with a clutch, 8 speeds, and a differential lock.

 

[MountainMomma]

MountainMomma, if all you are interested in is having the work done rather than doing the work, your model makes perfect sense from a fiscal stand point. As you have gathered, most on here like the DIY approach and derive as much pleasure from the journey as the destination. It would be cheaper for my wife and I to hire out most of our work and our renters would do much of it free, but we enjoy the work.

As much as I LOVE LOVE the idea of doing it ourselves, I'm SO aware that we don't know what we're doing. I think the above picture of learning from those who do while we invest our limited $$s this year in community employment makes a whole lot of sense... sigh. But I sure would enjoy the DIY model. THIS year, we HAVE to rennovate the unlived-in-for-30-years-and-there-never-was-a-bathroom (or central heat) farmhouse to make it livable. We therefore have limited $$s and time this year. Each year, we'll hopefully generate more income from the biz we own and operate (assuming the country doesn't go to **** in a handbasket) and we may move to this farm next July. SO... I'm thinking more and more that we should wait at least a year and hire out the "must do's."

Anyone else?

 

[MountainMomma]

For mowing, check the many threads on this subject, ZTR v tractor etc., there are a lot of good models out there. My wife prefers her BX2660 over a lawn or garden tractor for its versatility and John Deere X Series are great mowers and so on. Good luck.

ZTR?

BX2660... brand? Deere?

 

[MarkV]

I think your new option could be a good plan. You will learn a good deal seeing what the locals do and how they do it. Your time is limited and needs to be focused on making the house livable and you will not be jumping into a major purchase like a tractor with limited experience and research.

The prices seemed fair from what we know. The only thing that sounded a bit high to me was 50' of gravel drive for $1000. Guess it depends on what needs doing. You might even ask the person doing the clearing if he can cut ditches and spread gravel with his equipment.

MarkV

 

[TripleR]

ZTR?

BX2660... brand? Deere?

ZTR Zero Turn

Kubota BX2660, you can get a front loader, Mid Mount Mower or Rear Finish Mower, tiller etc.

Deere makes good mowers and SCUTs (Sub Compact Utility Tractors. The X700 Series are expensive, but really nice.

Here is a picture of our BX which my wife has taken over and assigned me to our L5030 unless I am on our 8540 then she uses the L5030, BX2660 or John Deere 2305.