Anyone Use a Trash Pumpt to Clean pond?

[CollinLeon]

That is correct and I understand that bentonite is readily available in Texas at a reasonable price. Here in Georgia where it is not a natural resource and has to be trucked in the price for a 3/4 acre pond is way up there. We looked into it for a smaller pond on another property.

You don't have any oil wells in Georgia? That's what it is mainly used for from what I understand... Something dealing with the drilling mud, best I remember...

 

[scesnick]

Collin Leon,
The water is crystal clear. It is spring fed and you can see the bottom easily. The diver Idea is not a bad one but the pond isn't all that deep and I am just going to pump most of the water out till it is only about 2-3 ft deep before I start removing the sediment.

Curly Dave,
The pond is on a bit of a hill and I can easily pump the sediment/sludge right over the hill and into to woods. Wifey wants to put it on the garden once it dries out a bit.

I am going to atleast try a diaphragm pump. if I have any success at all It will save me a ton of money by not hiring out a dozer and operator.

 

[MikeD74T]

Collin Leon,
The water is crystal clear. It is spring fed and you can see the bottom easily. The diver Idea is not a bad one but the pond isn't all that deep and I am just going to pump most of the water out till it is only about 2-3 ft deep before I start removing the sediment.

Curly Dave,
The pond is on a bit of a hill and I can easily pump the sediment/sludge right over the hill and into to woods. Wifey wants to put it on the garden once it dries out a bit.

I am going to atleast try a diaphragm pump. if I have any success at all It will save me a ton of money by not hiring out a dozer and operator.

Use two centrifugal pumps, one 3-4" to suck from the pond & another smaller one to jet the silt loose in front of the larger pump's suction. Like this - New Mini-Dredge Sediment Pumping System, not necessarily float mounted.
Here's some more stuff if you get serious - http://www.akmining.com/cart/suction_nozzles_and_suction_tips.htm

Right now at my worksite are commercial divers pumping muck from out cooling water inlets. They use hand manuevered 4" axial electric pumps. Bubblers won't move much above water level. I did some jet dredging years ago to remove fertilizer from a sunken barge. Great fun for the first 10 minutes, then two weeks of boring work in zero visability. Have fun. MikeD74T

 

[tawilson]

Collin Leon,
The water is crystal clear. It is spring fed and you can see the bottom easily. The diver Idea is not a bad one but the pond isn't all that deep and I am just going to pump most of the water out till it is only about 2-3 ft deep before I start removing the sediment.

Curly Dave,
The pond is on a bit of a hill and I can easily pump the sediment/sludge right over the hill and into to woods. Wifey wants to put it on the garden once it dries out a bit.

I am going to atleast try a diaphragm pump. if I have any success at all It will save me a ton of money by not hiring out a dozer and operator.

I'd put a rope on it then drop the hose right down into the bottom from the get go. Let the water flowing to the pump stir up and drag the silt to it. Then drag it to a different spot when that areas cleaned up. I've thought about doing the same thing around my docks.

 

[SPYDERLK]

Use two centrifugal pumps, one 3-4" to suck from the pond & another smaller one to jet the silt loose in front of the larger pump's suction. Like this - New Mini-Dredge Sediment Pumping System, not necessarily float mounted.
Here's some more stuff if you get serious - Suction Nozzles & Suction Tips
Have fun. MikeD74T

:thumbsup: Yeah ... fer sher sucking alone is not going to do it. I envision a 10% by volume 100psi jet to upset silt stasis right at the suction nozzle. Also, perhaps a backflush capability to clear occasional suction blockage.
larry

 

[boggen]

3/4 acre lake, is what i am looking at doing as well.

contact the various mini floating dredge companies. you might find a used one to buy vs a new one. a couple times i found searching google a couple used mini dredges for about 5,000.

if ya going to drain, you may need to break dam and let the pond dry out for a year or 2 pending on how deep the silt is. so you can even get in there to remove stuff via excavator / dozer. for me i know i will have to let this pond dry for at min a year. if a break the dam open. i would say 5 to 8 feet of silt build up.

contact folks with ""long reach"" excavators. that can say reach 20 to 30 feet out. if you can drive all the way around right near shore line.

myself i am torn between mini dredge vs excavator.

using a trash pump like you are wanting to do. would be spinning my wheels and never make it worth while. just way way way way way way to much time.

if i did mini dredge, the front lake has a low enough area on one side. that i can get a bunch of straw bails in. and line the entire area up with lines of bails. and then pump water to far end. and let water trickle back through all the mud and through straw bails before going back into the pond. this allows me to suck more water and less mud (which the mini dreges tend to do, or even a trash pump you are looking at will do. to maintain the water within the pond. but also allows all the spoils (sludge) to stay up and off shore. were i can let it dry out. and if need be spread out on fields or move to other places on the property.

if i just pumped water and sludge right over dam of pond. i would end up pumping out all the water before i even got a chance to do any good portion of the pond.

 

[scesnick]

I rellay don't want to spend 5k for the mini dredge. I think the diaphragm pump will basically do the same thing as the mini dredge for A LOT less money. I might end up spending a small fortune on a dozer but I figure it is worth a try to hit it with the diaphragm pump first and see what happens.

 

[CollinLeon]

I rellay don't want to spend 5k for the mini dredge. I think the diaphragm pump will basically do the same thing as the mini dredge for A LOT less money. I might end up spending a small fortune on a dozer but I figure it is worth a try to hit it with the diaphragm pump first and see what happens.

Rent a pump for a weekend, see how far that gets you, and then extrapolate for the rest of the pond. You might find that it won't be all that cheap once you get done with it.

 

[20 20]

.

if ya going to drain, you may need to break dam and let the pond dry out for a year or 2 pending on how deep the silt is. so you can even get in there to remove stuff via excavator / dozer. for me i know i will have to let this pond dry for at min a year. if a break the dam open. i would say 5 to 8 feet of silt build up.
.

I have to ask why do you need it to dry for a year or 2 ? I could see where after you throw the spoils you may want the pile to set, but confused about the dredge

 

[CollinLeon]

I have to ask why do you need it to dry for a year or 2 ? I could see where after you throw the spoils you may want the pile to set, but confused about the dredge

He's probably assuming that the pond is large enough that you won't be working from dry land and as such, you could end up getting the dozer / excavator stuck in what would basically be a swamp. It is possible to get a tracked vehicle stuck!

If it is a big enough pond that an excavator cannot reach at least to the middle or so from the shore, a drag line can be used to reach a bit further than the boom will reach. I suspect that letting it dry out and using a dozer is cheaper than a drag line though. Whether a dozer is cheaper to operate than the pump, I dont know... You might have to do a test to find out. Rent a pump for the weekend and see how large of an area you can clear. Figure out how large your pond really is, divide that by the size of your test area, and then multiply that times the cost of renting / operating the pump for that period of time. That will give you a rough estimate of the cost to use a pump to clean the bottom of the pond.

 

[boggen]

I have to ask why do you need it to dry for a year or 2 ? I could see where after you throw the spoils you may want the pile to set, but confused about the dredge

in my case, i would end up loosing excavator, TLB, and/or dozer. when i mean loose, i would not be able to find them again. it would be like quick sand in a movie. and the tractor disappearing to some unknown land.

in my case lake used to be at least 10 maybe more feet deep. but now it is only 2 maybe 3 feet deep but 3 feet would be pushing it. ((a lot of silt)) you drop a 10 foot metal pipe straight down, and it just continues to sink on its own weight.

((see attached 1st attached diagram))

if you can tell me another way to get in there and clean it out. with a excavtor, TLB, and/or dozer. i am all ears, with open mind, willing to learn!

to note it, i only have about 2/3rds if that i can get around the one lake i need to dredge out. reaching over 100 plus feet to other sore line is out of question.

=========
second diagram, could be a mini dredge setup, or any setup were ya pumping muck up to a slightly higher spot.

again, if it takes any were from 1 to 4 days to pump all the water out of your pond /lake. what are you going to do for the remaining days it will take to remove all the dirt / mud that has built up within the pond/lake. waiting for heavy rains and pond/lake to refill doesn't cut it. being able to recycle / reuse the water. so it drains back into the pond/lake. would allow you to go at things at a more constant rate.

 

[boggen]

He's probably assuming that the pond is large enough that you won't be working from dry land and as such, you could end up getting the dozer / excavator stuck in what would basically be a swamp. It is possible to get a tracked vehicle stuck!

ack posted right after you did and didn't see your post till after i posted

ay, tracked vehicle stuck is possible! asking around locally and calling some folks. noted way to easy to get them stuck. and to get them unstuck. requires more work than one might think. 200hp plus tractor with 8 wheels. plus a bunch of digging. is one of the horror stories i do remember. other stories being require multi other tractors and large size cranes. that cost a small fortune to get things unstuck.

 

[CollinLeon]

ay, tracked vehicle stuck is possible! asking around locally and calling some folks. noted way to easy to get them stuck. and to get them unstuck. requires more work than one might think

There's a reason that the Army created things like this:

M74 Tank Recovery Vehicle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

YouTube - Tank Stuck In Mud

A tracked vehicle just means that you can get stuck in more inaccessible places... And that it will cost you more to get unstuck...

 

[MikeD74T]

I rellay don't want to spend 5k for the mini dredge. I think the diaphragm pump will basically do the same thing as the mini dredge for A LOT less money. I might end up spending a small fortune on a dozer but I figure it is worth a try to hit it with the diaphragm pump first and see what happens.

If you already have a diaphram pump all you have to loose is time. If you're renting or buying - get a centrifugal pump. Do a little research on dredges -all are centrifugal pumps for a reason. MikeD74T

 

[scesnick]

If you already have a diaphram pump all you have to loose is time. If you're renting or buying - get a centrifugal pump. Do a little research on dredges -all are centrifugal pumps for a reason. MikeD74T

Good info Mike, I will have to look into a centrifugal also.

Anyone have any experience with one of these? FA Series Diaphragm Pumps - Mud Sucker Pumps

I emailed them and they suggested models 2FA or 3FA.

 

[9973720wb19]

there is a website/company that sells "Muck Removal Tablets" look at Pond, Lake, & Water Garden Supplies, Pond Algae Control, Pond Dye, Pond Aeration, Pond Liners

 

[20 20]

in my case, i would end up loosing excavator, TLB, and/or dozer. when i mean loose, i would not be able to find them again. it would be like quick sand in a movie. and the tractor disappearing to some unknown land.

I don't doubt one could loose a machine in muck, seen it before. With a little understanding and patience{good operator} this should not happen.

in my case lake used to be at least 10 maybe more feet deep. but now it is only 2 maybe 3 feet deep but 3 feet would be pushing it. ((a lot of silt)) you drop a 10 foot metal pipe straight down, and it just continues to sink on its own weight.

((see attached 1st attached diagram))

I understand thanks for the diagram. Yes that is a lot of silt but definately not an impossible job.

if you can tell me another way to get in there and clean it out. with a excavtor, TLB, and/or dozer. i am all ears, with open mind, willing to learn!

to note it, i only have about 2/3rds if that i can get around the one lake i need to dredge out. reaching over 100 plus feet to other sore line is out of question.

On mine I build a ramp in, I also have/had more then 6' of muck. If you can get access to a dump trailer then you should have no problem with using an excavator to load muck on trailer and take spoils away. You'd need an excavator a trailer and something that could pull the trailer{4wheel drive tractor, dozer....}. Start at one end{ramp side} and work your way out. It seems like a lot of work but I can guarantee it will take a LOT less then 2 years and really isn't all that bad. I have been working on mine by myself and have allready got most of it back down to 10' in a couple of months{slower because of machinery trouble and my own stupidity }. I had to stop because of machinery issue's and winter. Once things dry out I will drain and finish, shouldn't take more then a couple of weeks total, including draining. Of course weather also can deal a bad hand but if the draining is kept up with even this should not be a major set back. Once done the ramp can be filled back in and leveled off. I also made a set of pads for my baby mini excavator{4000lbs} to help walk it out into mucky spots{they can be built for any size machine}. Mine are basically 5x5's bolted together with ready rod. I place them using the bucket and thumb, move out, turn around and pick up the one I was previously on, swing it around and keep going. If I'm to lazy to use the pads I just dig and load the trailer and work my way across/around the pond.

 

[moored4]

We used this one(Mud Sucker 3FA Series Heavy Duty Diaphragm Pump) in our mill that I worked at. they were air driven moters. They ran 24/7/365 for years at a time with no down time. they were only sucking steam condensate and oil sumps out but I think they would work for you with an inlet screen to keep the big stuff out!

 

[20 20]

Boggen; here are a couple of videos using and showing what a mud mat or pad is. The 1st video doesn't really show the pad until around the 5min mark. I would say judging by the video that machine is working in atleast 5' of muck if not more. The 2nd video shows what they look like and how to move them. There are other video's of them in action but this should help explain what I did and how helpfull they can be.



YouTube - Excavator in deep mud again

YouTube - Unloading Mud Mats

 

[CollinLeon]

Boggen; here are a couple of videos using and showing what a mud mat or pad is. The 1st video doesn't really show the pad until around the 5min mark. I would say judging by the video that machine is working in atleast 5' of muck if not more. The 2nd video shows what they look like and how to move them. There are other video's of them in action but this should help explain what I did and how helpfull they can be.

Just a note... They do not provide positive flotation, they just help distribute the load across a larger area so that you sink slower... There are some methods for use with an excavator that will allow for positive flotation to the point where you can use the excavator even in water deeper than your tracks could touch bottom. This might consist of an undercarriage that is considerably larger and watertight to that it floats... It might consist of having the excavator on a barge... There's always a way, it just depends upon whether you are willing to spend the money to make it happen...