Snow Equipment Owning/Operating Manual trans for snowblowing?

[Jay4200]

I'm in the process of making a new purchase (tractor) for my business. I'm considering the Mahindra 2516 gear drive or a B2320 maybe a B2620 ( I got a very good price on the 2620) and I'm wondering if anyone uses a gear drive with a blower? If I use the 2516 for grass ( rear mount mower) or bush hog work it will not bother me to have a gear. I grew up using a gear and the shuttle shift on the 2516 is sweet. I have driven the Mahindra and found the gear to have very low speed in low range and power out the wazoo. I am concerned about using a blower with the trans driven PTO. The hydro is nice in this aspect but I love the gear for everything else I will do and loader work with the shuttle should be fine. What's the skinny on this topic? So all you gear drive fans and hyro users speak up please. My wife is in my butt about me being on the fence about the purchase. Plus if I get the gear she won't drive it!!
Scaper

Hydro would be ideal for a blower, but I've been running my Glide-Shift L4200 all season with a 6' blower, and haven't had an issue with speed. I usually run 2nd or 3rd (out of 8) - I've yet to have to resort to 1st, except once while chewing through about 18-20" of heavy stuff. Regardless of gear, if the blower starts to load up, just stand on the clutch for a few seconds. The live PTO mentioned earlier is a must-have though.

JayC

 

[Jay4200]

Effective blowing means full pto rpm's at all times (or risk plugging). A hydro trans or super-creep allows that; normally geared trans will required start/stop or clutch slipping operation.

The money spent on the hydro (if its more) will be saved in time and clutches.

Absolutely true - if you are buying new and making a decision, I've vote to get a hydro. As much as I like my glide-shift, and I really do, my next tractor will likely be a hydrostatic.

JayC

 

[firemech]

I live in the Muskoka area of Ontario where we normally get a lot of snow (not this winter though!) We have one of each and both work well but differently. Our Kubota 7510 is a gear trans non 2 stage clutch with a 54" snyder blower it will blow the full width and height of the blower and when approaching the end I do not touch the clutch but slip it into neutral. When the auger is cleared I step on the clutch, let the pto wind down and shift the trans. It is not perfect but works well and after 2000 hrs we have not had any clutch or tranny problems. Our L3400 HST with a 72" blower is certainly easier to do, as prevoiusly stated, just vary the ground speed as the depth of snow requires/allows. Both work but differently. Like the HST for blower and loader work, prefer the gear for most everything else.:confused2:

 

[MMagis]

The money spent on the hydro (if its more) will be saved in time and clutches.

I have to ask, do most of you actually believe this? Do you have any understanding of what it takes to wear out a tractor clutch? It doesn't seem like it.

 

[flyingcow]

Gear is just fine. No need to over think it.

Same here. Just make sure you do have a creeper gear in reverse. My unit has a 16x16 tranny. Works great. But my tractor hp range doesn't offer a hydro option either. If the hydro had a speed lock that would help.

 

[RoyJackson]

I have to ask, do most of you actually believe this? Do you have any understanding of what it takes to wear out a tractor clutch? It doesn't seem like it.

Probably not, since most probably have no experience with gear transmissions...

 

[JDGreenGrass]

I have a 20hp/pto gear tractor and I run a 64" blower off the back. Low gear is the perfect speed for blowing snow. Yes, a bit slow but, when I am blowing it is clearing the full 64 inches. No 'fall in' snow from the edges of the blower.

Totally impressed with the efficiency of the blower.

And, by having a rear blower, I still have the capabilities of the bucket out front. Perfect set-up.:thumbsup:

 

[Scaper]

Check out the new post I found out some info. Thanks to all so far. Scaper

 

[doxford jim]

I fopund my Jinma to be good for blowing snow. It is a geared tractor with 16F / 12R with a creeper gear set up. I have H,L, fast and slow on creeper with four forward gears. With reverse I have four speeds plus the low and high in the creeper setup.

I think this is a good setup and the ranges are fine for me - and I have a lot of choices. I usually blow in reverse, either 1st high or 2nd or 3rd high creeper speed - depending on the section of driveway. It really isn't a problem using the gears as I set the engine revs at around 2200 rpm and that gives me great blower operation. Speed over the ground varies with the gears. I put the PTO into neutral when turning around with the blower lifted up - put back into gear once the blower is lowered again. Obviously the clutch is used for each operation/change, but it becomes second nature after a while and really isn't a problem. I guess if I were older (I'm 66 at present) operating the clutch might get to be a problem - but for now it is just fine.

I must add here in fairness, I have not used an HST or auto tractor, so I have nothing else to compare with.

Cheers

Jim

My drive varies from straight and level to curved and sloping both up and down. Depth of snow governs speed mostly. I find going slower gives better control and a straighter cut (TPH blower going in reverse).

 

[RFB]

I have to ask, do most of you actually believe this? Do you have any understanding of what it takes to wear out a tractor clutch? It doesn't seem like it.

Well, I'm not sure. In addition to my previously mentioned snow removal experience (that sometimes consumes up to 60 hours per week) I have 30+ years of operating and maintaining clutched diesel powered vehicles weighing up to 37 tons in high speed emergency operations. I don't know if that counts on understanding how a clutch works and wears.

That is the reason that, based upon education, training and experience, I am personally aware of a number of one-hundred million dollar fleets that have switched out of clutched vehicles.

Now for ground engagement duties WITHOUT ground speed speed variation while maintaining full PTO rpm, well thats different. Without devaluing farming operations in any manner, all tractor use is not farming. The question was about snow. Your mileage may vary.

 

[Gary Fowler]

Comparing over the road tractors to farm tractors is not even comparing apples to oranges and those trucker fleets for sure didnt switch to hydrostatic drive from geared. Automatic shifting transmissions are not the same as hydrostatic drive. If you have the correct gearing and live PTO, a geared tractor can do as well or better than a hydrostatic drive given the same engine HP for both. It all comes down to personal preference. If you like the hydro get one, if you prefer gear drive then get one of those. Either one will get the job done if the load is matched. I would never buy any tractor that didnt have live PTO. Do they actually still make a tractor without live PTO or at least a two stage clutch? I thought those went out with the 8N back in the 1950s.

 

[RFB]

It is already a given that changing from a clutch operation to something "not a clutch" is part of the dynamic, regardless of the "not a clutch" system that is chosen. The OP chose the alternative as an HST vs. clutch. I was answering a question regarding clutch utilization.

Regardless of the alternative (either auto or HST), the utilization of a clutch increases cockpit workload by requiring increased operator input, and there is (at least a viable school of thought says so) more PM and/or repair (time and money) involved in clutched systems.

"Live PTO...Disadvantages are: more expensive to repair, extra routine adjustments (on dual clutches) to maintain proper operation, and a little more leg muscle is required to depress the clutch through both stages of the clutch."

http://www.tractorsmart.com/main/Tractor Power Take Off Types.htm

 

[some zilch]

Well, I'm not sure. In addition to my previously mentioned snow removal experience (that sometimes consumes up to 60 hours per week) I have 30+ years of operating and maintaining clutched diesel powered vehicles weighing up to 37 tons in high speed emergency operations. I don't know if that counts on understanding how a clutch works and wears.

That is the reason that, based upon education, training and experience, I am personally aware of a number of one-hundred million dollar fleets that have switched out of clutched vehicles.

Now for ground engagement duties WITHOUT ground speed speed variation while maintaining full PTO rpm, well thats different. Without devaluing farming operations in any manner, all tractor use is not farming. The question was about snow. Your mileage may vary.

they switched out of clutched vehicles so that they can put anyone behind the wheel. i work for a municipality, and there has not been a clutched vehicle in their fleet for 12 years. and its not because those allison autos in the dump trucks never mess up. its so they can tell anyone with a drivers license to go get in and drive, and not worry about burning up a clutch every other day. ive never been so embarrised to drive a truck in my life.

 

[RFB]

I cannot speak to your experience, but I can to my own.

When I speak of education, training and experience, the vehicle operators that I am referring to have quite a bit more of that than most. As in literally thousands of hours prior to being permitted solo operation, with written (comprising vehicle maintenance, vehicle operation, and engineering), oral and practical testing, and then on probation for another year.

If I were to analogize this, it would be the difference between someone with a private pilot's license that flys on the occasional weekend, versus a fully trained Naval Aviator flying and landing high performance aircraft on a carrier deck.

The men of whom I speak operate stick or auto and everything in-between, bigger than big, and on crowded metropolitan streets, freeways and on single lane dirt mountain roads with sheer drops on one side and no room to open the door on the other.

Now maybe its different in your world, but that's mine.

 

[RoyJackson]

I cannot speak to your experience, but I can to my own.

When I speak of education, training and experience, the vehicle operators that I am referring to have quite a bit more of that than most. As in literally thousands of hours prior to being permitted solo operation, with written (comprising vehicle maintenance, vehicle operation, and engineering), oral and practical testing, and then on probation for another year.

If I were to analogize this, it would be the difference between someone with a private pilot's license that flys on the occasional weekend, versus a fully trained Naval Aviator flying and landing high performance aircraft on a carrier deck.

The men of whom I speak operate stick or auto and everything in-between, bigger than big, and on crowded metropolitan streets, freeways and on single lane dirt mountain roads with sheer drops on one side and no room to open the door on the other.

Now maybe its different in your world, but that's mine.

Uh huh...

So, what industry is this? Trucking (18 Wheelers)? Automatics never took hold with those trucks. Mining? Not on city streets although most of those big mining dumps are not manual transmission (diesel electric, I believe). Railroad? Again, diesel electric and not really comparable to trucks or tractors.
Come to think of it....probably intracity buses since most are a type of hydro transmission (company I recently contracted to sold and serviced bus transmissions).
No need to be so secretive...it's not like Greyhound is a state secret. Nor is the training particularly difficult.

 

[RFB]

One example, with about another 6 variations.

 

[ccsial]

I blew snow with my 1910 from 1982 to 2005 when the L3400HST took over that job. I would never go back to a gear for blowing. I guess I am spoiled now.

I do like the manual in my RAM diesel though.

 

[RoyJackson]

One example, with about another 6 variations.

OK, I'll buy that...

 

[Jay4200]

Your mileage may vary.

Hey. You must ride dirtbikes.

JayC