Grapple heavier grapple or not

[jake98]

I posted a picture under photo gallery. I've been trying to include it in reply but I'm thinking my fist was gonna get there faster.

I use the attachment paperclip thing to upload pics.

 

[universalgirl]

I tried that. Not really sure why it wont accept. It shows it's been downloaded but WHERE IS IT???????????

 

[universalgirl]

Not sure what I did that time but it worked.

 

[jake98]

that's a different looking unit.. who makes that one?

 

[IslandTractor]

Not sure what I did that time but it worked.

Thanks. I'd call those replaceable rather than removable but I understand your point.

 

[universalgirl]

You are correct, they are "replaceable". I can't put the "maker" on here because I'll get a mean note by email. :laughing: You can private message and I can answer any questions.

I'm really interested in hearing what everyone is really looking for in the quick attach. I'm understanding a lot more regarding tractor vs. skid steer couplers and design. I know you all said you would be a message away and Melissa Markham promised me that if I had any questions about things, this is the place to come. With all the self fabrication I'm reading about, there is a lot of talent on here.:thumbsup:

 

[MtnViewRanch]

If you want to sift your ground and you have the power, bigger is better.

I have done acres of ground in this fashion, usually try to keep the tines 8-10 inches in the ground. I WOULD NOT WANT TO DO THIS WITH A 48' LIGHT DUTY GRAPPLE.

 

[IslandTractor]

If you want to sift your ground and you have the power, bigger is better.

I have done acres of ground in this fashion, usually try to keep the tines 8-10 inches in the ground. I WOULD NOT WANT TO DO THIS WITH A 48' LIGHT DUTY GRAPPLE.

Agree. Big heavy tractor, grapple underground with unknown obstructions requires heavier grapple construction. No downside to narrow grapple though which would be safer for the FEL arms. Catching a boulder or stump with the edge of a wide grapple while powering forward would put a lot of twisting force on the FEL arms. The task you are doing in the photo is ideally done by a bulldozer which has appropriately engineered short stubby arms attached to the grapple. A tractor Front End LOADER, is not really designed for that type of work. It can do it but will not last as long as a bulldozer because the FEL is primarily designed to lift not push and is simply not engineered for the twisting forces encountered with serious root raking.

 

[MtnViewRanch]

Agree. Big heavy tractor, grapple underground with unknown obstructions requires heavier grapple construction. No downside to narrow grapple though which would be safer for the FEL arms. Catching a boulder or stump with the edge of a wide grapple while powering forward would put a lot of twisting force on the FEL arms. The task you are doing in the photo is ideally done by a bulldozer which has appropriately engineered short stubby arms attached to the grapple. A tractor Front End LOADER, is not really designed for that type of work. It can do it but will not last as long as a bulldozer because the FEL is primarily designed to lift not push and is simply not engineered for the twisting forces encountered with serious root raking.

Your absolutely right, a dozer would be far better and I should probably make a Rock rake for ours. But I do not have that, but then again I do not have any rocks to hit either, at least not yet. What I have is root balls in top soil that is left from the fires that went through our area back in 2002. As far as the 48" grapple having no down side, yes a heavy duty 48" would work, but mine is an 81" and gets my work done just a weeee bit faster than a 48" would.

As to this date and 500hours on the tractor although a small percentage of those hours with the grapple, I have had no damage to the tractor or grapple or loader arms. In my conditions I believe that I am fine, but yes if I were encountering big rocks or tree root balls I would be in trouble.

 

[foggy1111]

FWIW.....Strangely....the Markham/Gator 48" grapple will measure closer to 54" wide IIRC. Therefore....it's a bit wider than indicated.

 

[rd_macgregor]

If you want to sift your ground and you have the power, bigger is better.

I have done acres of ground in this fashion, usually try to keep the tines 8-10 inches in the ground. I WOULD NOT WANT TO DO THIS WITH A 48' LIGHT DUTY GRAPPLE.

I grew up in Riverside, Calif. and you have the ideal situation to get away with that approach. Rocky soils (like on the hill behind your tractor!) or heavy clay soil with deep-rooted trees and you'd be hung up in no time at all. Except for relatively small, surface roots, I've not had very good luck with root raking; a maple tap root, or even a heavy spruce root will stop my 45hp tractor cold and it either stalls or starts digging its way to China.

BOB

 

[MtnViewRanch]

Yes as it has been said what I do would not work well if this that or the other thing was taking place. But all those negatives are not in place at my location and what I do works good for me with my situation. The whole reason that I even posted was to point out that everyone does not use their grapple in the same manor, and the OP has a little bigger tractor than most here that are always showing what they are doing with their grapples.

There obviously is a call for bigger grapples and those bigger grapples are not always on skid steers. I don't disagree that smaller tractors are better off with the smaller grapples, but everyone does not have the smaller machines and everyone does not use their grapple in the same manor.

 

[G man466]

There really is a lot already written about this issue.

The Kubota M series is pretty heavy and so I'd want to know how the user intended to use the grapple before making a recommendation. If it is just to pick up debris laying around or lifting felled trees then the basic light duty Markham/Gator etc would do fine IMO. If on the other hand the grapple will be used to root rake or dig out trees then I'd opt for the heavier duty steel in the 48 inch version to give it more rigidity as the momentum with a M would be quite a bit and striking an unseen stump or immovable rock/object assymmetrically would put quite a bit of twist on the grapple.

I know Jake and others are happy with their wider heavier grapples but I've still in five years never seen anyone with a bigger grapple post a photo or describe something they were able to do that our little bitty 48 inch grapples cannot do just as well. The concerns about hitting an unseen object with the edge of the grapple are multiplied when using a grapple that is wider than the FEL arms too. The notion that you cannot drive into brush with a narrow 48 inch grapple are bogus. I do it all the time and come out with huge loads.

Here is my latest capture with my 48 inch Millonzi (weight 280lbs). I could only lift the stump this high and as my loader is rated for 2700lbs to full height at pivot pins, I'm guessing this stump weighed something close to 3000lbs. If my grapple weighed 500+lbs, I probably would not have been able to lift it and move it.

Hey IslandTractor, i've hear ur the "goto guy for grapples" The land, I'm working on is riverfront..soil conditions are soft..flat..and no rocks. i'll be picking up mostly dead pines,clearing small brush which pushes up with just the bucket and clearing trails throuhout property..trying to post pics of brush piles to give you some idea of what i'm dealing with. Your opinion would be greatly appreciated!

 

[IslandTractor]

The land, I'm working on is riverfront..soil conditions are soft..flat..and no rocks. i'll be picking up mostly dead pines,clearing small brush which pushes up with just the bucket and clearing trails throuhout property..trying to post pics of brush piles to give you some idea of what i'm dealing with.

I would use a light duty 48" grapple for that work. Benefits over larger grapple are clear: 1) cost 2) manuvering in wooded area, 3) brush sticks together in a grapple so you can lift and transport a six to eight foot pile of brush even though the grapple is narrower, 4) net lift capacity with a light grapple is higher, 5) none of your tasks suggests strains or wear beyond the capability of a light duty grapple, 6) small is beautiful.

 

[G man466]

I would use a light duty 48" grapple for that work. Benefits over larger grapple are clear: 1) cost 2) manuvering in wooded area, 3) brush sticks together in a grapple so you can lift and transport a six to eight foot pile of brush even though the grapple is narrower, 4) net lift capacity with a light grapple is higher, 5) none of your tasks suggests strains or wear beyond the capability of a light duty grapple, 6) small is beautiful.

impressive pics...ths for your advise

 

[kattywumpus]

I purchase the Gator 60” light duty, which I believe was a good compromise between 48” light duty grapple and a heavier grapple. The 60” Gator grapple is the larger version of IslandTractor’s 48” Markham grapple (Markham was sold to Gator). If you decide to purchase a Gator grapple I highly recommend you contact Jim at Jeb Supply Co. (717-729-1056 or jebsupplyco@pa.net ). Due to their volume purchases from the factory you can normally get a better price then going direct to the factory. You can also find Jeb Supply on Ebay.

To give you an idea of the strength of this grapple I attached a picture of a large log in the grapple. This red oak log is over 18' long and greater then 24" in dia. I have also moved many loads brush, logs, and stumps using this grapple. I had no problems getting stuff in my tires. Due to the distance I need to travel to dump debris I normal move large loads which requires me to keep the load low. I have used the grapple to rake roots and the soil in my area has a lot of clay. Raking did not work well until the rear tire were load. I do recommend adding extra tines to the rear of the grapple to prevent logs and brush from poking through and possible damaging your tractor. I definitely prefer a single centered thumb over two thumbs. The single thumb and the small custom teeth Gator add to the thumb makes it easier to grab the end of a log or tree and back out of the wood in to a cleaning for easier cutting and loading. If you add the small teeth make them thicker, not so pointed like mine are. After several weeks of use the small teeth look like a red neck in need of a serious set of braces.

 

[IslandTractor]

FYI, my grapple is a Millonzi, not a Markham. Note the curved lower tines. Otherwise construction and weight are very similar but I like the better engineered design of my lower tines better. Not sure why Markham/Gator don't do that as they clearly use CNC cutting equipment.

Jake is partially right about the width and visibility. If I take a really large load that I have not bothered to compact, it can have 6 or more feet of dangly brush hanging out either side. The vines sometimes will catch the tires and that pulls some of the brush out of the grapple so I just lift it higher. A wider grapple with brush hanging out the sides would probably not do that except when you made a turn. I only move brush about 200-400 yards so I just lift it and look under the grapple at where I am going. Even with a fully enclosed (nothing hanging over) load of brush I need to raise the grapple to be able to see anything 20 feet in front of the tractor so I routinely raise the grapple so I can travel with better vision. I don't think a wide grapple would be any better for that issue.

 

[G man466]

ahhhh......Kubota dealer left message..new tractor will arrive tomorrow!!! I'm going to order a grapple next week. You guys make such great points ur driving me insane...oh well, thats why i started this thread...thx for all the advice

 

[jake98]

Good luck trying to sleep tonight! :laughing: