Snow Tractor Questions

[mmranch]

I need to order snow chains for my TYM 603.

I am located in Colorado in mega snow country at 9400ft elevation on a mountaintop. Our STEEP road is a half mile long with 3 switchbacks. Let's just say, yes we know snow.

I have a 68 Chevy K20 pickup with a 7.5 Snow-Way plow that I use to plow the driveway. It works great for the long runs down the road but has taken me awhile to get the truck dialed in. I put a lot of weight in the bed (sandbags and railroad ties) and plow in 1st (granny gear) 4Wheel Low. Works fine when plowing fresh snow where I can keep up some speed and throw the snow to the sides and over the edge. But as the snow builds up on the sides (up to 5ft high during certain times of winter) it forms gutters which keep me from throwing the snow further out. When I was first putting chains on the truck, I kept shredding the chains apart (on the rear) and went through several different chain types (and of course having to repair/reinstall them all the time... a huge hassle). Finally, I got a setup that works... ice-bar chains on the front wheels and heavy-duty mud service chains on the rear that don't shred.

In the long run, the tractor will probably be outfitted and used for plowing the whole driveway, but for now I will continue to use the truck to plow and use the tractor for edge pushback as well as removing glaciers next to our house. The tractor has a backhoe on it and a toothbar on the 78" loader bucket. It worked well for edge pushback at the tail end of last winter (without the toothbar in place and no chains) so I know it will be a big help to have the toothbar to break apart glaciers (as well as the backhoe... with chains).


Question #1: I don't want to go through the hassle I had with getting the right chains on the truck. I don't want the tractor chains to come apart. Do you think I have to search for some heavy-duty mud service chains for the tractor or is the tractor tire torque so fundamentally different than the truck (because of the large rear tires/tractor weight) that the snow chains I've seen on the net won't shred apart and will be fine?

Question #2: I have seen large 'snow buckets' on the net (skidsteersolutions.com, etc.) and I know they are of a lighter construction than a dirt bucket. But I am wondering how they would hold up to heavy duty use. (Our snow here is massive with glaciers of snow/ice). Anyone have experience with these 'snow buckets'? Are they robust enough to ram into snow mounds and tear them apart?

Question #3: In the long run, I will probably put a snow plow on the tractor herself. I have seen dozer blades for a quick attach and thought about using that instead of just a snow-plow blade so that I could use the dozer blade in summer. Anyone have experience with this?

Thanks for your thoughts!

 

[Chilly807]

Try a search on the net for Norse Super Tractor chains. You won't break them easily, if at all. I've been 100% satisfied with mine.

Sean

 

[flyingcow]

Question #1. Ice chains or v-chains should work nicely.

Question #2. Your bucket/toothbar will work nice. I know, not to your extreme, ice and heavy snow. Ice can and will have the same properties as cement.

Question#3. Dozer blade type of set up on a FEL? A lot of stress on FEL riggin'.

being a snowblower type of guy, blower works very well for my set up. Just a thought.

 

[lilranch2001]

I do not have that much snow, just normal Indiana winters and a 900 foot drive.
I was wondering if I need chains, and if I do should I get chains for all four tires?

I test drove a tractor like mine last winter with turf tires and unloaded tires and it sucked on snow/ice mix

 

[brt]

For long term durability, you'll find the Pewag brand of chains hard to beat. They have an online catalog. I work in a snowy mountain area and we used to go through at least 3 sets of chains per busy fire engine each winter before switching to Pewags. Now it is about 1.5 sets per winter. We used the "square" links. Much better on ice than the "round" links that we first tried.

I run Pewags on my Bobcat skid steer and even with the beating that they take (lots of snow removal on pavement) they hold up great.

 

[mjncad]

mmranch:

If I may ask, what part of Colorado are you in?

 

[RoyJackson]

I do not have that much snow, just normal Indiana winters and a 900 foot drive.
I was wondering if I need chains, and if I do should I get chains for all four tires?

I'd say it depends on how steep your drive is.
The big debate has been to get the chains for the front or the rears. I got mine for the rear only because I didn't want to stress the front axle too much. A lot of folks got by with rear chains only for a lot of years before front wheel drive assist became fairly common.
One of our bretheren, Arribil, lives fairly close and has a very steep drive. He uses chains on all four tires.

 

[mmranch]

Thanks to ALL for the ideas! Will check out the chain brands.

We are located in Crested Butte, CO (200 to 250 inches of snow per season). Our dirt road (which I've been busy rehabilitating this summer) is very steep in spots so I am inclined to go with chains for all 4 wheels (maybe I'll try just the rear at first).

I have a walk behind snow thrower and it does a great job... but my road is so long that I fear a snowthrower on the tractor would take too long. As it is now, the truck plowing takes about 1 to 2 hrs if the snow is heavy and the plowing needs to be done sometimes every day or sometimes twice a day (ARRGGGHH!).

Yeah, the dozer blade may be too much for the FEL... just saw they had that for the skidsteer attach.

When I can no longer take the plowing I'll just call my plow service and they'll hit it with a giant FEL.

Thanks again.

 

[Danno1]

.


Maybe some logging chains?

Definitely do all fours though for a steep drive. Helps w braking too, ya know.


.

 

[Diamondpilot]

Thanks to ALL for the ideas! Will check out the chain brands.

We are located in Crested Butte, CO (200 to 250 inches of snow per season). Our dirt road (which I've been busy rehabilitating this summer) is very steep in spots so I am inclined to go with chains for all 4 wheels (maybe I'll try just the rear at first).

I have a walk behind snow thrower and it does a great job... but my road is so long that I fear a snowthrower on the tractor would take too long. As it is now, the truck plowing takes about 1 to 2 hrs if the snow is heavy and the plowing needs to be done sometimes every day or sometimes twice a day (ARRGGGHH!).

Yeah, the dozer blade may be too much for the FEL... just saw they had that for the skidsteer attach.

When I can no longer take the plowing I'll just call my plow service and they'll hit it with a giant FEL.

Thanks again.

I get into the Crested Butte/Gunnison area 10 times year so I know what you are up against. Very different then the snow we get in Norther Indiana. I would go with the truck to the the majority of the work and the tractor to do clean up like you are doing now.

I put a 7' Meyer snow plow on my tractor last year inplace of the FEL bucket and it handles 15" of snow with no issues but you are in a different league. You really need to spend your money on a 3 point snow blower.

Chris

 

[leonz]

Snow saga continues

I need to order snow chains for my TYM 603.

I am located in Colorado in mega snow country at 9400ft elevation on a mountaintop. Our STEEP road is a half mile long with 3 switchbacks. Let's just say, yes we know snow.

I have a 68 Chevy K20 pickup with a 7.5 Snow-Way plow that I use to plow the driveway. It works great for the long runs down the road but has taken me awhile to get the truck dialed in. I put a lot of weight in the bed (sandbags and railroad ties) and plow in 1st (granny gear) 4Wheel Low. Works fine when plowing fresh snow where I can keep up some speed and throw the snow to the sides and over the edge. But as the snow builds up on the sides (up to 5ft high during certain times of winter) it forms gutters which keep me from throwing the snow further out. When I was first putting chains on the truck, I kept shredding the chains apart (on the rear) and went through several different chain types (and of course having to repair/reinstall them all the time... a huge hassle). Finally, I got a setup that works... ice-bar chains on the front wheels and heavy-duty mud service chains on the rear that don't shred.

In the long run, the tractor will probably be outfitted and used for plowing the whole driveway, but for now I will continue to use the truck to plow and use the tractor for edge pushback as well as removing glaciers next to our house. The tractor has a backhoe on it and a toothbar on the 78" loader bucket. It worked well for edge pushback at the tail end of last winter (without the toothbar in place and no chains) so I know it will be a big help to have the toothbar to break apart glaciers (as well as the backhoe... with chains).


Question #1: I don't want to go through the hassle I had with getting the right chains on the truck. I don't want the tractor chains to come apart. Do you think I have to search for some heavy-duty mud service chains for the tractor or is the tractor tire torque so fundamentally different than the truck (because of the large rear tires/tractor weight) that the snow chains I've seen on the net won't shred apart and will be fine?

Question #2: I have seen large 'snow buckets' on the net (skidsteersolutions.com, etc.) and I know they are of a lighter construction than a dirt bucket. But I am wondering how they would hold up to heavy duty use. (Our snow here is massive with glaciers of snow/ice). Anyone have experience with these 'snow buckets'? Are they robust enough to ram into snow mounds and tear them apart?

Question #3: In the long run, I will probably put a snow plow on the tractor herself. I have seen dozer blades for a quick attach and thought about using that instead of just a snow-plow blade so that I could use the dozer blade in summer. Anyone have experience with this?

Thanks for your thoughts!

You should be fine with the Pewag chains and side binders-be sure to order spare links etc.

Two stage tractor snow blowers work very fast to remove snow falls, and leave little snow to make any mud at all.



You are better off buying a Pronovost 800 TRC snow blower for your tractor PTO horse power and a limited slip PTO slip clutch shaft to get rid of it the first time and not handle it again and you will not have to deal with mud issues or moving piles as the snow will be gone from the shoulders.

The snow blower has an 80 inch cut and a 34 inch hieght of cut allowing you to remove 400 pounds per foot of advance with with 21 pounds per cubic foot of snow pack.

The 802 has a drum that rotates and discharges directly from the impeller housing through its opening allowing much more flexibility in disposal with no spout required for the extreme left or right discharge positions which improves the discharge tonnage.


You have 5280 feet of lane milage in total assuming it is 16 feet wide a snow fall of 34 inches deep and 16 feet wide gives you

5280 *16*3 feet (rounded) gives you 253440 cubic feet times 21 pounds per cubic foot which is 2.700 tons rounded higher which must be removed.

If you advance at 2 miles per hour this is 176 feet per minute and you will be able to remove 400 pounds per foot of advance which is 35 tons per minute in one lane and dispose of it and have no snow banks or mud to deal with as you will not give it the time to melt and make a mess.

One pass with the Pronovost 800 will require 15 minutes time to remove 525 tons of snow per passage at 36 inch depth of cut with some spillage due to the 34 inch cutting hieght.

The Pronovost tractor mounted sidewalk snow blower is narrower and you would make 2 more passes but it will remove less tonnage per pass (it has serrated edges on the augers to cut snow banks with ice buildups).

 

[mmranch]

Thanks very much for all the info!

The snow thrower definitely sounds interesting as they do a clean job and can throw far away and almost the entire route of the road is heavily forested on the sides. Some areas there is a downhill dropoff so the plow can throw it over but other areas are boxed in with trees (and the sides of the road in one area rise up on both sides) which produces encroaching buildup.

The tractor is great for pushing these back with the bucket for now. I bet with a plow mounted on the FEL I could go along and trim the edges down progressively which might be pretty quick too.

In any event, when the cold comes here... it never melts, not until spring and because I keep up with the plowing and pushback what mud we get was related to poor road drainage. I have been working on improving the drainage so I'm hoping it's better next spring than before... we'll see.

Thanks again.

 

[leonz]

You will not even bother with a plow once you see how
fast the Pronovost 800 is when moving snow.

the impeller drum is 12 deep and 26 inches in diameter


the speed of the impeller is 540 rpm and 9 revolutions per second


Pi *13*13*12 which is 3.7 cubic feet times 21 equals two tons per minute/ 12O tons per
3.14* 13*13*12 =3.7 cubic feet times 21 =77 pounds per revolution time 540 revolutions
per minute is 21 tons per minute potential discharge rounded higher.

one pass 80 inches by 34 inches by 2640 feet


using 4 miles per hour is

4 times 88=320 +32 = 352 feet per minute for 4 miles per hour

so if i have this right


2,640 feet in one pass

34 by 80 inches

21 pounds per cubic foot of snow load

400 pounds of snow per foot of advance at 34 inch depth continuos.

2,640 times 400 pounds in one pass
per cross sectional area of the blower one foot deep
528 tons

1,056 tons in two passes

1,584 tons in three passes

2640 feet divided by 352 feet per minute for 4 MPH

1,056,000 pounds in one pass

3,168,000 pounds in three passes

one pass will take 7 minutes and 30 seconds3 passes 22 minutes 30 seconds
at 4 MPH


And dont worry about the areas with trees as the blower will
blow it right through the thick pines.


Once you get it back to dirt it will not muck
up with any snow melting as you will have next to no snow
left on the ground and the wind will dry it quickly.:thumbsup:

Are your rears loaded? you should have that done if they are not.

leon

 

[flyingcow]

Thanks very much for all the info!

The snow thrower definitely sounds interesting as they do a clean job and can throw far away and almost the entire route of the road is heavily forested on the sides. Some areas there is a downhill dropoff so the plow can throw it over but other areas are boxed in with trees (and the sides of the road in one area rise up on both sides) which produces encroaching buildup.

The tractor is great for pushing these back with the bucket for now. I bet with a plow mounted on the FEL I could go along and trim the edges down progressively which might be pretty quick too.

In any event, when the cold comes here... it never melts, not until spring and because I keep up with the plowing and pushback what mud we get was related to poor road drainage. I have been working on improving the drainage so I'm hoping it's better next spring than before... we'll see.

Thanks again.

Since i've gone to a blower, for my set up, it's the best. I have a rear mount blower and plan on putting a blade on my FEL. Now you have steep dropoffs, a blade on the FEL will have a lot of reach when you push out. Less chance of driving off the edge? One would hope.

But i plan on the light storms(6 to 12 inches) blading the snow in the center of driveway, than backing up once and blowing it out in the fields. And with the FEL having a Q/A, put the bucket back on if i need it. Just my thoughts.

If you've been plowing with an old 3/4 ton, with the road you have. You'll dial that tractor in quickly. Load the tires, chains, etc. I wouldn't even rule wheel weights for the rears. In the terrain you have, it might not be a bad idea. But when you lift the rear blower up, that'll add good weight.

Whatever you do,we need pics while you work it. Good Luck.

Leonz--I googles the blower you're talking about and can't find it. You ahve a link?

 

[leonz]

here it is www.pronovost.qc.ca/snowblowers


the 80O TRC has the rotable drum for side to side discharge like most all the group two units.


I would call Tudor and Jones in Weedsport, NY as they are the closest dealer/distributor to you on this side of the border.

They have a toll free watts line but I do not have the number right in front of me.

 

[mmranch]

The rear tires are already liquid filled. (Maybe the front tires too?... need to check with the dealer).

One thing on a snow thrower that has been a problem in the past. I have a 10 year old 32" Troy Built Snow King walk behind snow thrower and while it's always worked great for moving snow, the one design flaw has always been that it's very heavy and a bit unbalanced and the steel skid shoes always dig in on my dirt/gravel roads and then the snow thrower throws rocks (I'm sure they work fine on a paved driveway). Once there is a frozen layer of snow on the ground (and the ground is harder) they don't dig in and throw rocks as much. Eventually, I mounted some old ski tips on it instead of the skid shoes and it doesn't dig in at all (skinny Nordic ski tips would be best as fatter ski tips keep the thrower riding a bit high).

Anyway, my road has few areas where the surface is flat across the road. Most areas have some degree of crown in the middle and have drainage channels on the sides (after my drainage improvements). There's already going to be a bit of a hassle with plowing to keep the plow from digging in in areas (I'll have to adjust the plow skid shoes for more clearance). Just wondering if throwing rocks is also an issue with tractor mounted snow throwers? I guess the 3-point could be adjusted somewhat to accomodate the crowned road.

Thanks again.

 

[leonz]

The crown is no the the issue, the issue is the three point hitch.

Your fronts would not be loaded unless they were equal size to the rears.

I am unfamiliar with this tractor and I am going to assume it has the lower link arm that cranks out and if it out you need to retract it to use the blower successfully- the crank helps in connecting the lower links with less effort and in plowing ground for crops.

You simply need to adjust the skid shoes on the blower the first time and leave them.

depending on the height setting you may skim some dirt if its not compacted and thats an unavoidable issue.


You leave the blower on the ground in float and simply drive in low gear in reverse with the engine PTO speed set for 540 RPM like everyone else does.

It would be worth your while to contact Pronovost in Quebec to see if the Hardy three point hitch system they have will fit your Tym tractor as it is in the horsepower range for these front mounts and then you can have the 800 TRC up front if you want to do that- only issue is vision with line of sight as you would not want to drive too close to the edge of the road unless you have heavy T posts-8 footers marking the safe edge of the shoulder with or without the yellow poly rope between posts.

about the cameras JC Whitney has a herd of wireless cameras and monitors for sale that would allow you to look over the blower in either mounting with ease and no strained necks.




stone throwing is a hobby for all snowblowers on gravel so you have to point spouts at the ground when near homes or traffic.

 

[flyingcow]

The way the blower I use works, is that I adjust the top link in or out and this will make the blower cut in or roll it back and the blower will ride so it won't cut in.

 

[leonz]

Whoopsie;

I totally forgot the adjustable top link as an aid, an 800 is heavy enough that it will find its own level for sure with no worries about the cutting edge.

 

[whistlepig]

I do not have that much snow, just normal Indiana winters and a 900 foot drive.
I was wondering if I need chains, and if I do should I get chains for all four tires?

I test drove a tractor like mine last winter with turf tires and unloaded tires and it sucked on snow/ice mix

We live in mid west Ohio about 1 mile from Indiana. The first three winters we lived here I got by with the loader and no chains. Last winter every time it snowed the wind would kick up to 25 MPH+. 6" of snow with 25 MPH winds equals 4' drifts. The tractor spent more time going sideways than going forward and reverse. My land is flat as a pancake. That's why it drifts so badly here. This winter chains and a ballast box are at the top of my list. I'm considering the Aquiline Talons. These are studded chains and the most aggressive chain that I can find available to purchase online.