excavating hill side for retention wall - what implment for BX25?

[dirtbikejunkie]

Hi all, I am about to work on building a 3-5' retention wall along my yard. currently the area has a 45 degree slope and then level on top. the wall length will be approx 50'.

sorry for the crappy photo... this is the area where the retention wall will go and hopefully give an idea of material I need to dig.

what implement would work best for digging? the ground is glacial till, mostly loamy with 1" to softball size rocks.

I am considering buying a toothbar for the FEL in hopes most of the material can be moved with the it. in your experience will the BX FEL with a toothbar be able to dig into soft dirt like this, or am I dreaming?



I also have a few high areas in the lawn I am hoping the toothbar will be able to dig, any thoughts?

 

[NSBound]

Assuming you do not have a backhoe on your rig, the FEL with toothbar will work OK. Just take small cuts at it though, don't try to fill the bucket all at once. If you do have a backhoe, you have it made - dig it out with that, pick it up and move it with the FEL.

 

[dodge man]

Unless the ground is really hard, the FEL will work, and I don't think you will need a toothbar unless you want one.

 

[CHDinCT]

By definition, your BX25 has a backhoe, so like was already said, use that to dig the wall vertical, then move the excavated soil/till to wherever you want it.

 

[BotaBX24er]

FEL will work fine but it's all about the technique that you will have to figure out as your yard will allow so much. But yes, the easiest way is to break it up with the BH and then scoop it up with the FEL. Enjoy...Just be careful with the BH (the tendency I have is when power behind it gets to me and I keep on digging ) and make sure that you have made the ONE CALL to mark out all your utilities as it looks really close to the house.

 

[LBrown59]

Unless the ground is really hard, the FEL will work, and I don't think you will need a toothbar unless you want one.

With a BX25 he has all he needs .
Use the BH and no toothbar is needed.

 

[radioman]

Right, since he has a BH, It is probably all he needs to break up the soil to make it loose enough for FEL. If it doesnt work and it compacted and too large of rocks mixed in, then perhaps a brotek ripper hook would work on the BH instead of bucket then ue FEL to move loose materail.

 

[dirtbikejunkie]

yes, I do have a BH.

I was thinking that by adding a toothbar to the FEL I could dig into the hill side using it and be more efficient. but reading the replies above and thinking about it some more that probably won't work and I'll need to use the BH.


any suggestion in regards to the best method to improve the grade of the yard? at present the grading is causing pooling around the foundation. I want to create a 2% grade all around the house. I was also considering a toothbar for this to get the rough grade in then finish by hand as house is only on a 1/2 acre and the area seems too small for a box grader, etc. any suggestions?

 

[rdsaustintx]

Depends on the type of retention wall and if you need a footing. If so, the BH is the only way to go. My wife does hydrology and erosion control engineering (retaining walls). There is a LOT to the subject.

Her first question in designing one is, "ALL erosion control is temporary, so how long do you want it to last?"

The part about the FEL that scares me is the angle of approach. It looks like limited room to back up. These things can REALLY ding house walls.

(or so I have heard. not like I done it. honest. no kidding. really.)

 

[ChuckinNH]

Remember when thinking about establishing grade with an FEL that the bucket is always level with the back tires. Often, the only way to establish a new grade is to create it by digging at 90 degrees to the planned grade until you establish a place for the tractor to sit. The next problem is maintaining that grade. On the other hand, a box blade can be tilted to an angle that is different than the grade the tractor is on, and the angle of attack can be adjusted to dig more in the high spots than in the low spots by tipping the box ahead until the front of the side edges contat the soil before the blade does. In just playing with a small swale, I found it much easier to establish, and maintian a grade with the BB than with the loader, and I am a newbie with it. The box will pull an even layer along until you get a load, or reach the end of your grade, and then you can easily scoop it up with the bucket. This little swale is only about 50' long, and you can get an idea how much soil you will move. (Actually some of it has already been used in other places on my land)

 

[JOHNTHOMAS]

You seem to want a toothbar. I've had one and traded it off. I've found the Ratchet Rake to be more useful for my purposes than the toothbar. Your BH to dig the sides down and then fel to remove loose material. As Chuck mentioned the boxblade can possibly also be used. I've been terracing hillside property without a BH and it's tough. I get on the upper side, if there's room, and start peeling edge off with fel then go to lower side and scoop loosened dirt up.

 

[rlsmith]

If it was me and I had water pooling at the foundation and if there was not perimeter tile I would take my BH and did a perimeter hole all around the foundation put in some corrugated tile with some #1 & 2 stone and tee that off to your septic system or to the city tile if possible. If it had a tile I would be checking into why this is happening.
I had the same problem with my home and found that when they back filled my home they crushed one area and once I dug it up with by BX23 repaired the crushed area and ran a tee off of it to a field tile too help out the sump pump I had no more pooling.

 

[dirtbikejunkie]

You seem to want a toothbar. I've had one and traded it off. I've found the Ratchet Rake to be more useful for my purposes than the toothbar. Your BH to dig the sides down and then fel to remove loose material. As Chuck mentioned the boxblade can possibly also be used. I've been terracing hillside property without a BH and it's tough. I get on the upper side, if there's room, and start peeling edge off with fel then go to lower side and scoop loosened dirt up.

yes, I think I am trying to talk myself into the toothbar... I have some land to clear (later) and the toothbar would work well.

with the limited amount of lawn that I need to grade I can't justify buying the box blade and trying to make the toothbar or just using the FEL alone work. I am ok with finish by hand if necessary, I just need to get a rough 2% grade. the areas are approx 30x40 and 50x30, so not much.

the ratchet rake is interesting. the prices is a bit more than the toothbars I am considering, but the rake appears more functional. I might have to consider it.

 

[dirtbikejunkie]

If it was me and I had water pooling at the foundation and if there was not perimeter tile I would take my BH and did a perimeter hole all around the foundation put in some corrugated tile with some #1 & 2 stone and tee that off to your septic system or to the city tile if possible. If it had a tile I would be checking into why this is happening.
I had the same problem with my home and found that when they back filled my home they crushed one area and once I dug it up with by BX23 repaired the crushed area and ran a tee off of it to a field tile too help out the sump pump I had no more pooling.

I may have stated incorrectly earlier. the house has foundation drainage tile. the issue is the builder did not properly grade the lawn around the house, so during heavy rains surface water collects around the house.

I want to re-grade so the water drains to the street ditch and french drains that I am installing.

 

[KeithInSpace]

...only on a 1/2 acre and the area seems too small for a box grader...

I wouldn't consider anything too small for a box-blade.

I used mine in a couple different ways at my parent's house recently. They live on ~.3 acres.

First, they wanted to remove the 'junk' material along the edge of the existing road and replace it with screened topsoil so they could grow quality grass out there (as well as fix a drainage issue with a small 1" tall berm messing up drainate). As the transverse slope was all jacked up, I dropped 1 corner of the box blade 3 inches and that allowed me to take a clean clip along the road. In subsequent passes, I flattened the box and ended up with a perfectly graded shoulder.

Second, I applied the same principal to digging a drainageway...dropping 1 corner and taking passes where I wanted to establish a drainage channel. In this case it was actually along the face of a flowerbed transitioning to a v-swale through their side yard.

In both cases, I could never have completed the task with anything other than a box (or back/rear) blade. The FEL, toothbar or not, has a fixed relationship with the tractor. It is useful for a lot of things, but clean grading/clipping of ground is NOT its strong suit. Nor is changing the grade of the ground over a large area.

Through the myriad of landscaping projects I've completed, the tractor itself is, of course, indispensible. The backhoe is crucial. The box blade is amazing and no tractor should be purchased without one. I can't believe I don't have a York Rake...when you "finish" your project, you'll understand why. Buy one. Save yourself the aggrevation. I'd love a small disc harrows, but could never justify it or the real-estate it takes to store it.

I've considered a toothbar and am sure it would help in breaking up ground, but the BH or box blade with scarifiers takes care of 90% of the need. Plus I'd constantly be removing the toothbar to use the front edge of the bucket. I think there are better ways to do what you want without a toothbar. Put another way, you'll buy a toothbar, use it for 30 minutes, then go buy a box blade.

 

[ultrarunner]

What are the essentials of Box Blade selection?

 

[LBrown59]

1*I wouldn't consider anything too small for a box-blade.
I used mine in a couple different ways at my parent's house recently. They live on ~.3 acres.

1*I think dirtbikejunkie means the area right around the house/foundation is to small to maneuver and operate a BB in ; not that .3 or .5 acres is to small for a BB?
You can have any number of acres and still have places on those acres that you don't have room to operate a BB on.

If it was me and I had water pooling at the foundation and
1*if there was no perimeter tile I would take my BH and dig a perimeter hole all around the foundation put in some corrugated tile with some #1 & 2 stone and
2* tee that off to your septic system or to the city tile if possible. .

1*He has that and in good working order.
2*I've never heard of any public septic system that permitted ground water plumbing to be connected to their system.
Here in Washington County Oh. private septic systems are regulated by the County and State health departments.
Teeing a surface drainage line into my septic system is strictly forbidden as I imagine probably it is in most all other states and counties.

 

[timswi]

What I have done is this, and it's only a suggestion. Buy a cheap laser level with a stand ($30 at Costco) that doubles as a bargain transit. Establish your grade from the house to your ending drainage area-2% or 1/4" per 3 ft or so.

Dig a swail at the far end at the intended grade and work your way back to existing grade with the FEL...Can't rush this. As others have said, the FEL follows the current angle of the machine, so you have to work at it.

With a little patience, you can do this with what you already have, unless you hit ledge rock

 

[PUSHINDIRT]

Like Keithinspace said you will use your toothbar for 30 min and then go buy a box blade! I purchased a toothbar new with the tractor and now it sits in the garage all alone.
I really thought it would help and it did to some extent but if you try and do any type of precise leveling (driveway or yard) the teeth do leave a mark. Good Luck!

 

[Deano]

I really thought it would help and it did to some extent but if you try and do any type of precise leveling (driveway or yard) the teeth do leave a mark. Good Luck!

A flat tooth bar will eliminate that problem. I put mine on and the only time I needed it off was to push snow, and I probably won't take it off for that again. But, two bolts and it's off!!

Deano