How many engine hours is too many engine hours?

Larks · Mar 9, 2009

Am looking at a B1750 with a mower deck, although it is about 20 years old it seems to be a good solid and honest machine, albeit showing its age appearance wise. It has done about 4500 hours but still starts and runs well, no rattles, leaks, doesn't overheat and electrics seem all OK.

My question is: how many hours should you really expect to get out of a 20hp 3 cylinder kubota engine as in the B1750?

thanks
Greg

hwp · Mar 9, 2009

I'd say you should get at least 10,000 hours if properly maintained.

Egon · Mar 9, 2009

I have heard 10,000 hours mentioned by a local Kubota dealer in regards to a B7100 one of their customers had. Mine had 3000 hours when traded and was still preforming as when new.

rbargeron · Mar 9, 2009

How many hours are too many is all about the owner's affinity for machinery. If an owner remains aware of how a machine sounds, notices when anything gets loose or changes how it acts, and takes action then and there to correct the issue, then that machine is always worth doing whatever it needs. Scheduled maintenance is done on time and the machine stays in serviceable condition for a very long time. 10,000 hours is within reason.

Machines made with good materials and precision last several years in almost anyone's hands. But after about 1,000 hours wear begins to be a factor and the health of the machine depends more and more on the attitude and actions of its owner. For a ground-engaging machine to last 10,000 hours is as much a commentary about good stewardship as original quality.

boatyard · Mar 9, 2009

I have to agree. All machines will live long/ longer lives if well cared for. I have Woodworking machines that I have been using daily for 25 years and do not believe that they would still be functional if I had not cared for them. Regular maintenance, and stop and fix the weird noise every time. And be gentle.

john_bud · Mar 9, 2009

4500 well cared for hours are no problem. May last 4500 more.

WIth that said, I know people that can kill one in a couple hundred hours!

You have to check it out. Have the dealership do a compression test and leak down test.

jb

easygo · Mar 9, 2009

I'm not sure if it is an option on the smaller engines to have them rebuilt, but I would ask. Around here large, commercial grade equipment is used well over 20K hours under the harshest of conditions. That includes two or three engine rebuilds along the way.

Larks · Mar 9, 2009

Thankyou all for the replies, unfortunately this one is not through a dealer and the history is not known, also obtaining a compression test won't be practical because of the location of the tractor. I'm taking a bit of a gamble on the tractor being as described because it will be a long drive for me to go out and inspect it so am going with the expectation of buying it, ie taking cash and a trailer to bring it back, but enough common sense to pass it up if it is not as described..

SDT · Mar 12, 2009

Greg:

I have a B1750HSD that I bought new in 1993. Mine has only 330 hours on it and has been meticulously maintained. That said, I know of no other such equipment that has been properly maintained beyond the first few years and then only by a knowledgeable original owner.

Compact tractors are not true industrial equipment and the systems, including the engines are of the "throw away" type (much like the diesel engines used in pick up trucks). Yes, they can be rebuilt but such is rarely done outside of warranty because it is rarely cost effective. Except in the most rare situations, these engines are not 10,000 hour engines.

You do not include the suffix letters of the tractor in question but if it has a hydrostatic transmission, I would be more concerned about the maintenance record of the transmission. Hydrostatic transmissions are machined to close tolerances, are not tolerant of cavalier maintenance, and are expensive to repair.

I would be very interested in seeing the maintenance records unless the sale price is very very attractive.

SDT

rut3556 · Mar 12, 2009

Guess I've got a ways to go on my L2250. It's 23 yrs. old and has 406 hrs. on the clock.

Egon · Mar 12, 2009

Hydrostatic transmissions are machined to close tolerances, are not tolerant of cavalier maintenance, and are expensive to repair.

This type of statement seems to keep cropping up but somehow instances of repairs required and costs seem to be almost negligible. So what does it cost to repair a hydrostatic transmission and how often does it happen on these throw away machines?

RickB · Mar 12, 2009

Generally speaking, it is possible to spend as much on a hydrostatic transmission catastrophic repair as one would spend on a major overhaul of the motor that drives the hydro in question. It can possibly match the value of the fully functional tractor if the repair is done at shop rate. As for the probability, I think of a quip in this month's Reader's Digest. The chances of mortality from a given disease may be 0.1% for the public at large, but if it happens to you, it's 100%. If one owns and maintains a machine from day one, the probablity of catastrophic failure due to poor maintainence is managed by the owner. Buying a used machine without warranty with an unknown maintainence and repair history eliminates any prediction of reliability. The classic 'pig in a poke'. It's all about how lucky you feel, and how much you want to spend.

JoelD · Mar 12, 2009

Would be a good idea to compression test, not a big deal if you can find a kit to borrow, they are not much money to purchase, harbor freight sells cheap. I think that would be a good and simple way to get a feel for the health of the motor.

Joel

B2400 · Mar 14, 2009

My first inspection would be the air cleaner. It is a simple part to clean and take care of and has a large effect on engine performance and longevity. If maintenance has been slack in this area, chances are good the more labor intensive maintenance has been neglected also. Start the engine cold. A puff of black smoke is no problem, but blue smoke indicates wear. After it's idled for a couple of minutes, bring the throttle up to 1/2 or better. Again, look for blue smoke and listen. A cold diesel will have some clatter,but your listening for any metalic noises. Check the transmission and make sure it goes in and out of the ranges without any major effort. Run it back and forth. It should accelerate and stop without any hard jerking or shuddering. Also smell the trans fluid. A burnt smell could indicate brake trouble as the brakes are lubricated by this fluid also.

lawn_king · Mar 14, 2009

As others have already stated, PM is the ticket for the long haul. Quality oil and fuel, fresh filters, etc. I average around 300 commercial use hours per year. I expect my 2008 GL 3540 to outlast me, im 47.

Larks · Mar 15, 2009

Thankyou all for such very valuable advice. As well as following up on the transmission advice, I will invest in a compression test kit, I have no doubt that it will prove to be a good investment and I will have other use for it with my yacht as well.

cheers all, very very much appreciated.

slowzuki · Mar 17, 2009

I've seen lots of little Kubotas that look to have been beat all to heck during their lives with 5000 hrs on the clock.

_RaT_ · Mar 17, 2009

Egon said:
This type of statement seems to keep cropping up but somehow instances of repairs required and costs seem to be almost negligible. So what does it cost to repair a hydrostatic transmission and how often does it happen on these throw away machines?

I'm with you Egon. Years ago when someone here kept spouting off that the hydrostatic transmission might have a catastrophic failure if a .50 cent O ring went bad was unfounded. I actually went to my dealer and inquired about the HST that Kubota was using. He went to the Kubota book and looked up the transmission I had in my L3830. A factory rebuilt transmission installed in my tractor was $2500. More importantly he mentioned that they had never replaced an HST on a Kubota yet. Both my L48 and my L3830 while low on hours certainly had no HST issues. I think there is plenty of advice here and at times its worth what you pay for it, simply your time it takes to read it. I know I have grown quite skeptical of opinions disguised as hard knowledge, politics included.

Egon · Mar 17, 2009

I know I have grown quite skeptical of opinions disguised as hard knowledge, politics included.

Yes, but the test of time has not been met. You must remember that it has to be at least 40 years old to be any good irrespective of the number of hours on the piece of equipment.

I just feel sorry for the active farmers that get a new tractor every 10 years or so and never get a chance to have owned a reliable tractor even though it's hour meter may be approaching the five figure mark but the years are low!

Confuses the heck out of me sorta.

WilliamBos · Mar 17, 2009

Egon said:
Yes, but the test of time has not been met. You must remember that it has to be at least 40 years old to be any good irrespective of the number of hours on the piece of equipment.

I just feel sorry for the active farmers that get a new tractor every 10 years or so and never get a chance to have owned a reliable tractor even though it's hour meter may be approaching the five figure mark but the years are low! Confuses the heck out of me sorta.

Some people look at a low houred 20 or 30 year old tractor as a bad investment, depending on the farm type, that could mean they bought 1 more tractor than was needed. But that makes it easier for folks like us to get some good old iron at a decent price.

Others just do not want to take the risk of running a tractor past 10,000 hours(10 years max) because the down time for repairs would kill them. Example a big dairy farm with a tractor on a mixer, if the mixer tractor keeps going down, and cannot be relied upon, then it needs to be replaced. After all, the cows have to be fed on time, since they pay the bills.

For me, I am interested & excited to see how many hours we get out of our 1523 before any major work is needed. We are religious with maintenance, so we will see.