types of transmissions

[dex3361]

I have had experience with both Crashbox (standard shift) and HST trannys and something I don’t hear mentioned here is how much safer I feel on the hills and operating in close quarters with a HST. It always made me nervous to operate my IH424 on the steep hills not because it was unstable but because I had to pass through the danger zone of neutral and/or pushing the clutch in and possibly freewheeling away to a drop off or into a tree. I am by nature a more old school type of guy but when I used a HST for the first time it just seemed safer for rotary cutting on the hills. My IH424 was complemented by a IH 129 Cub Cadet HST and this HST is 35 years old and I cut with it 7 months out of the year. I now have a Kubota L4400 HST, Kubota BX1500 and the IH 129 Cub Cadet. I traded the IH 424 in on the Kubota L4400.

 

[Iplayfarmer]

AHHHH.. makes sense now.. you weren't using the correct equipment on your iseki/mnower combo for your situation. Since you had non live tranny pto, you REALLY REALLY needed an over running couple on the back of your pto.. that cost between 55-80$ depending on if you get a quick release or the pin on types. They let the mower continue spinning while your tractor pto stub stops.. thus you can stop.. shift.. backup, stop, go forward.. etc... all beacuse of a 1-way ratched int he ORC keeping the mower from backfeeding power thru the driveshaft into the trans/diffy. For tractors driving large flywheel loads that have trans/non live pto.. I consider the ORC as essential 'safety' equipment... not optional..

soundguy

I did end up getting an ORC (It's kind of burried in the last sentence of the first paragraph of that post), and it did make a huge difference. I still had the problem, though, of the "spin up" time after I let the clutch out before the blades were spinning full speed.

It's doable with the gear tranny, but it's just a lot easier with the HST.

 

[Soundguy]

I'm puzzled witht he spin up issue? If you are going forward at normal speed, and clutch and shift to reverse, and then unclutch.. the blads have only had ? a second or 1.5 seconds to free wheel... shouldn't stop that fast even with a pto brake. once you start reverse they power back up.. ditto with going forward again. If you are instead refering to the startup from dead, All I've ever done was power up the mower while in Neutral, then clutch and shift to my forward gear of choice.. then go.. again.. only like a sec of freewhell time, because as soon as you let of fthe pedal and start moving forward the pto is powered again.. Were you letting the blades spin to a stop each time while using the ORC?

soundguy

 

[Iplayfarmer]

I'm puzzled witht he spin up issue? If you are going forward at normal speed, and clutch and shift to reverse, and then unclutch.. the blads have only had ? a second or 1.5 seconds to free wheel... shouldn't stop that fast even with a pto brake. once you start reverse they power back up.. ditto with going forward again. If you are instead refering to the startup from dead, All I've ever done was power up the mower while in Neutral, then clutch and shift to my forward gear of choice.. then go.. again.. only like a sec of freewhell time, because as soon as you let of fthe pedal and start moving forward the pto is powered again.. Were you letting the blades spin to a stop each time while using the ORC?

soundguy

I'd let them spin down a bit, but not stop. The neutral trick is not a bad idea. If I'd have thought of that at the time I'd have had better looking corners. I just didn't come up with that at the time.

 

[SFish]

I am an old gear-head, but before buying my last tractor a couple of folks that know what they are talking about told me that I needed an HST for my current conditions. They were absolutely correct. I work in the woods, in tight and steep conditions, and in tight places around buildings, and wouldn't trade back to any of the half dozen or so gear tractors I have owned or worked in the past. Today I had a man riding a palette on loader forks, all the way up, pushing a column on my new steel house. We were nudging the red iron square in order to drop some bolts, and the HST provided precise control. For long straight pulls a gear tractor is the only way to go, but....

Steve

 

[DGS]

Well Children it seems this is another Thread that has quickly become a sandbox fight between kids on the playground instead of an informative discussion of pros and cons of the subject at hand.

Just my observation and 2cents

Only one thing worse
The sand box is a cat litter box
hahahaha lol
DGS

 

[Soundguy]

I'd let them spin down a bit, but not stop. The neutral trick is not a bad idea. If I'd have thought of that at the time I'd have had better looking corners. I just didn't come up with that at the time.

I didn't have a tractor with live pto for a while.. so was just SOP that I had to learn..

What's even trickier is when you don't have live hyds, and the pto runs the hyds.. then you get more creative!

soundguy

 

[Iplayfarmer]

What's even trickier is when you don't have live hyds, and the pto runs the hyds.. then you get more creative!

soundguy

Been there. Done that. Got chewed out by my friend's dad as a kid for riding the clutch too much.

 

[WilliamBos]

Been there. Done that. Got chewed out by my friend's dad as a kid for riding the clutch too much.

That can get real expensive. Have a look...

 

[jimainiac]

Can anyone explain to me in not-too-technical terms the pros and cons of the old collarshift transmissions versus the newer hydrostat transmissions (with such things as synch reverser)?

I'm wondering if the newer technology is more prone to problems, is more complicated/sensitive, if it affects pto etc etc. I don't know anything about either one and I usually have found that the older tractors (though a bit less convenient) are more simple, reliable and solid.

Just to get back to the original question, it seems that hydrostatic transmissions have been around long enough to prove that they are reliable. I had the same concern when it was time to replace our first tractor, which had a gear transmission. We had previously gotten a new lawn tractor with HST, so I already knew how convenient it was. I did my homework and decided HST was plenty rugged for the things I was planning to use it for, and to make up for the loss in PTO HP I just moved up two engine sizes in the particular series of tractor that I had chosen. Just one size up probably would have been adequate.
I'm always skeptical of new technology until it has proven itself, and I think HST has passed the test with flying colors.
In addition to the convenience, I'm convinced that it's safer when operating on hilly, uneven ground. The fact that you can vary the speed or reverse direction with just the touch of a foot pedal can go beyond convenience to avoiding an accident.
To the original poster, I hope you digest all the information and make a choice you're happy with.

 

[Soundguy]

I'm convinced that it's safer when operating on hilly, uneven ground. .

Safety inherently lies with the operator.

That thing on top of your shoulders that holds up yer hat is the ultimate safety device.. sadly.. most peole don't use theirs....

soundguy

 

[AKfish]

That can get real expensive. Have a look...

Will; what are we I supposed to see? The rear main cap looks a little different... the round hole and the notch at the bottom don't look like they should be there. But, maybe that's a design feature to keep the bearing in place.

I'm confused - the block looks good to me.. 'Course it would look much better if all the intestines were in place and it was mounted under the hood again!

AKfish

 

[Egon]

Safety inherently lies with the operator.

Yes very true! All those gray cells as; "Hercule" would say, that enable the common fellow to choose the proper equipment required to do a proper job for the task he has in mind.

 

[WilliamBos]

Will; what are we I supposed to see? The rear main cap looks a little different... the round hole and the notch at the bottom don't look like they should be there. But, maybe that's a design feature to keep the bearing in place.

I'm confused - the block looks good to me.. 'Course it would look much better if all the intestines were in place and it was mounted under the hood again!

AKfish

The donour tractor this A3.152 came was the unfortunate tractor that was driven by a clutch rider who had no idea what free play was. The area that is gold was cause by either/or a clutch rider, and no free play in the clutch pedal whatsoever. The result was having the crank actually pushed into the block, crank was toast, and block needed repair.

If i can find the before pics, i will post them

 

[Soundguy]

Maybee that would help.. as the after pics are less than revealing with no frame of 'previous' reference.

soundguy

 

[dex3361]

Safety inherently lies with the operator.

That thing on top of your shoulders that holds up yer hat is the ultimate safety device.. sadly.. most peole don't use theirs....

soundguy

Any tractor transmission that you rarely have to use your brakes with even on the scariest of hills and situations is by far a safer piece of equipment. But hey that is just my opinion. My actions refect my thoughts because the transmission type on all 3 of my tractors is HST.

 

[Egon]

I'll stick with my 'brain' as the best safety equipment I have on any of my tractors

But gee, it seems there are a lot of us incapable of getting it in gear for all the time! And where does that leave us?

 

[Soundguy]

But gee, it seems there are a lot of us incapable of getting it in gear for all the time! And where does that leave us?

That's exactly my point.. if you are not using your head.. no piece of manufacturer / dealer installed safety equipment is going to save your life... an unsafe operator.. or one that is distracted IS going to eventually get hurt.. seatbelt, rops, HST trans or not... Ya got to engage the brain before you start stepping on pedals and turning keys.. etc..

soundguy

 

[Egon]

That is true but we challenged ones need all the help we can get !

Ya got to engage the brain before you start stepping on pedals and turning keys.. etc..

How does one do that all the time?? Some of us are flawed!