How Big a Motor?

[SouthernX]

Hi All,

I am looking to buy a 3/4 ton pickup to pull a 22-25 ft gooseneck trailer rated for up to 14,000LB loads. I found a Chevy 2500. It has a lot of miles (187K), seems to be in good shape. Anyway, it has a 350 cu.in. motor which makes me a little weary. I live in the Ozarks with lots of hills, some pretty steep and I'm thinking this may be too little motor. I would prefer a 454 but so far I haven't found one. Your opinions, please.

 

[Bird]

First, instead of only motor size, you want to consider motor size, transmission (manual/automatic/3 spd/4 spd/with or without auxilliary cooler), and differential (rear end) ratio. You told us about trailer weight and hills, but how often are you going to pull that trailer, how far will you be going, and at what speeds (highway, rural roads, city streets).

But without any other information, I'd think a 454 with a 4.10 rear end would be good, but the 350 can certainly do the job in many circumstances.

 

[unreconstructed]

I am not a Chevy owner. I had a f250 5.4 with 6 speed and 383s. Pulled about 5000 pounds plus 20 foot trailer in West Texas. Hills kicked its butt and we don't have hills like you have hills. Now running a V-10 with 412s and 6 speed and pulling about 6500 pounds not including trailer weight. Does the trick out here but I would go diesel if I pulled on a regular basis in hills like the Ozarks. 350 may be a stronger motor than a 5.4, I don't know, but sounds on the puny side to me even if you have 411s or so. Also, seems like 14000 gross is pushing a 3/4 ton, but some of the others on this forum know this off top of their heads. If you don't haul that often and your weight limits are OK, don't see the need of spending a lot of money to get somewhere a half hour quicker.

 

[Mundy]

How often do you intend to pull this trailer with the truck and will the trailer be fully loaded?

I have had several trucks that I regularly pulled 8000 to 14000 lbs loads with.
Here is a list of trucks I have had and some coments about them.

1981 Chevy 1ton 350 auto 2wd with 4:11 gears. Pulled a load well, not great but did well. Got about 8 miles per gallon empty and 6 loaded

1989 chevy 1ton 350 auto 2wd with 4:10 gears. Pulled ok. Got 8 mpg empty and 6mpg loaded. Not alot of get up loaded but would pull it.

1995 chevy 1ton 350 auto 4x4 with 4:10 gears. This truck was a turd. got 10 mpg empty and about 6 loaded. It did push snow very well but had a hard time getting up to speed with a load.

1997 Dodge 1ton 24 valve Diesel auto with 4:10 or 4:11 gears This truck would pull anything you had behind it. Several times I moved a 16000 pound dozer with this truck around large jobsites and it did it with ease. Got 19 mpg empty and around 14 loaded. This truck still works every day for the construction company that bought it from me. It is on its 3rd transmission but it is also 12 years old and worked hard every day.

1999 Chevy crew cab 3/4ton 454 auto 4x4 with 3:73 gears. This truck was also a turd. worse than the 1995. Got 12 mpg empty and don't remember loaded. Traded it after 10 months or so.

2000 GMC 4 door 3/4ton 6.0L auto with 4:10 or 4:11 gears. This truck pulled very well. got 10 mpg empty and 7 or 8 loaded. I had this truck for 7 years I liked it so well.

2007 Dodge quad cab 3/4ton 5.7L Hemi auto 4x4 with 3:73 gears. This truck pulls well. not as good as the 2000 GMC but with the 3:73 gears I get 14mpg empty and 11 mpg loaded.


Over all I would shoot for a Dodge diesel but if thats not you then the GM 6.0L trucks are what I would recomend. I was not happy with my 1990's era GM trucks with 350 or 454 for pulling. They were very nice comfortable trucks. Much more comfortable than my Dodges but if pulling is what you need then for GM gas trucks the 6.0L is the way to go.

 

[Treemonkey1000]

Bird's answer was right on the money. Speaking of money how much do you want to spend? Just my opinion a 350 Gas motor with 187K would be something I would hesitate at. Unless you like rebuilding motors later. Also how many miles a year are you going to put on the truck? Gas or diesel preference? Truck prices are still down. I have a 1988 Chev with a 454 that will pull a house if I needed. Downside of that is 7-8 mpg. I picked up a beautiful 2006 Dodge Quad cab with full sized bed. That has the 5.7 Hemi gasser in it. That has about 100 more HP than the 454 motor and gets about 14mpg. I only put 2000 mile a year or less on the trucks though so I won't be wearing them out soon. Cash talks if you walk onto a dealer lot. I talked the dealer down $8k pretty easily on the Dodge truck. That is a fun truck to drive!

 

[chh]

The 350 I had was a little weak for hard towing on a regular basis. I don't remember how it was geared but I think that was its main problem. It would run like a scalded cat though.
I currently run a F350 4wd with the V-10 and 430 gears. It is an auto and I would really prefer a standard I think. It tows 14,000 lbs here in the hills of eastern OK without any problems. Mileage can get down in the 8 range in the hills towing. 90% of the time if this truck is rolling it has a trailer on it or is loaded.
As mentioned there are some deals on the lots right now.

 

[wkpoor]

Gearing is the secret to any combination. Nice to have a diesel if its in your budget but a gasser geared low may do what you want for alot less money. I'm getting ready next month to put 4:56's behind a 350. It does well right now IMO with my 14K trailer but hills do strain it. I hope the gear change cures that.

 

[Heywood Jannockitov]

I hope the gear change cures that.

It should certainly cure your habit of driving by a gas station without stopping in and filling up!

 

[wkpoor]

It should certainly cure your habit of driving by a gas station without stopping in and filling up!

I could never put enough extra fuel in the tank to equal the upcharge on a diesel. Sure I'll loose a couple MPG on the highway....maybe gain a little in the city, but for 7K dollar extra for diesel and the current rig is paid for I'm willing to give this a try.

 

[Heywood Jannockitov]

I could never put enough extra fuel in the tank to equal the upcharge on a diesel. Sure I'll loose a couple MPG on the highway....maybe gain a little in the city, but for 7K dollar extra for diesel and the current rig is paid for I'm willing to give this a try.

And if the spread between the cost of diesel fuel and gasoline stays the way it is, I'll probably go back to gas when it is time to replace both pickup and car.

 

[SouthernX]

First, instead of only motor size, you want to consider motor size, transmission (manual/automatic/3 spd/4 spd/with or without auxilliary cooler), and differential (rear end) ratio. You told us about trailer weight and hills, but how often are you going to pull that trailer, how far will you be going, and at what speeds (highway, rural roads, city streets).

But without any other information, I'd think a 454 with a 4.10 rear end would be good, but the 350 can certainly do the job in many circumstances.

It is an automatic and a 3.73 rear. Trailering at least several times a week with an average round tripe of about 30 miles. Like I said, lots of hills, some steep. About 50% highway, 50% rural dirt / rock roads.

 

[SouthernX]

How often do you intend to pull this trailer with the truck and will the trailer be fully loaded?


See my reply elsewhere.

Over all I would shoot for a Dodge diesel but if thats not you then the GM 6.0L trucks are what I would recomend. I was not happy with my 1990's era GM trucks with 350 or 454 for pulling. They were very nice comfortable trucks. Much more comfortable than my Dodges but if pulling is what you need then for GM gas trucks the 6.0L is the way to go.


Thanks for the good info. I would like to have a diesel but they are pricey compared to gas. Then again maybe the diesel would pay for itself with the better gas mileage. I saw a '96 F-250 today with 6.3 Power-Stroke for $7000. Is the 6.0L GMC a gas engine?

 

[Crash101]

Hi All,

I am looking to buy a 3/4 ton pickup to pull a 22-25 ft gooseneck trailer rated for up to 14,000LB loads. I found a Chevy 2500. It has a lot of miles (187K), seems to be in good shape. Anyway, it has a 350 cu.in. motor which makes me a little weary. I live in the Ozarks with lots of hills, some pretty steep and I'm thinking this may be too little motor. I would prefer a 454 but so far I haven't found one. Your opinions, please.

You'll get plenty of advice on this one, but in the end a 350 powered Chevy 2500 (especially if it's the old 200 hp throttle body motor) if in good shape will pull upwards of around 6,000 to 7,000 pounds and maintain some degree of highway speed on flat ground. 8,000, 9,000 pounds? Maybe a few times for a short distance. That trailer may weigh 3,500 to 4,000 pounds empty and therefore may allow only around 3,000 pounds of payload before the old 350 is being tasked with more work than it should be doing. It is a 2500 so it probably has the gearing and oil cooling it needs, it just don't have the power to pull anything near what a 14k trailer can haul.
As for a 6.0 General Motors engine, yes it's a "small block" gas engine and quite capable of doing some hard work. Power is quite a bit more than the old 350's although not quite the torque of the 454/8.1 "big blocks".

 

[Crash101]

And if the spread between the cost of diesel fuel and gasoline stays the way it is, I'll probably go back to gas when it is time to replace both pickup and car.

Yeh, we'll replace our diesels for gas power and the next day diesel fuel will drop to less than gasoline.

 

[wkpoor]

You'll get plenty of advice on this one, but in the end a 350 powered Chevy 2500 (especially if it's the old 200 hp throttle body motor) if in good shape will pull upwards of around 6,000 to 7,000 pounds and maintain some degree of highway speed on flat ground. 8,000, 9,000 pounds? Maybe a few times for a short distance. That trailer may weigh 3,500 to 4,000 pounds empty and therefore may allow only around 3,000 pounds of payload before the old 350 is being tasked with more work than it should be doing. It is a 2500 so it probably has the gearing and oil cooling it needs, it just don't have the power to pull anything near what a 14k trailer can haul.
As for a 6.0 General Motors engine, yes it's a "small block" gas engine and quite capable of doing some hard work. Power is quite a bit more than the old 350's although not quite the torque of the 454/8.1 "big blocks".__________________

I agree the 350 does lack the torque by quite a margin under the 454 but here again gearing is the main actor in making what motor you have work for you. My Express van 3500 have 50,000mi. almost all of it towing and 10K is no sweat at all with the 350. Above 12K and it really starts to tell on hills. On the flat it can still cruise at 65 quite easily.

 

[Mundy]

Yes the GM 6.0L is a gas engine. It was what GM replaced the 350 with in 1999 or 2000 in there 3/4 ton trucks. They are found in the newer body style that came out in 1999.
If the truck you are looking at has 3:73 gearing and 350 I would pass.
The cost of the diesel trucks is why I have only had one. I just could not justify the extra $6k to $8k for better power when a gas truck will do the job.

I like the Dodge Hemi combo and it pulls quite nice but have not had it long enough to recomend it. The GM I had for many years and outside of maitenence like oil and spark plugs the only repairs I ever made was u joints in the front drive shaft, brakes and a fuel pump. That truck was traded for the Dodge due to rust issues. (Michigan winters are hard on sheet metal)

Good luck

 

[chh]

It is an automatic and a 3.73 rear. Trailering at least several times a week with an average round tripe of about 30 miles. Like I said, lots of hills, some steep. About 50% highway, 50% rural dirt / rock roads.

IMO a 3.73 rear end would not do well in the hills you are talking about. You would also find a dually to be much better on the dirt roads towing that kind of weight. I traded in my Dodge 3/4 ton diesel for the F350 V-10 gasser to get the dual rear wheels. I use my truck for trailering and feeding cattle(1 ton capacity cake feeder on the bed) and I was having constant tire issues from the load on the single rear tires running around dirt/gravel roads. A set of 10 plys was lasting me about 10 to 12 thousand miles.

 

[unreconstructed]

Since you added the fact about the 3.73 gears, I believe you will tire of the rig in the hills you are talking about. Again, as I stated previously, my 5.4/6 speed/ 3.73 set up was pretty weak on the slight hills out here. 30 miles a trip several times a week adds up--I am not a mechanic--wonder if changing out the 3.73 to a 4.12 or whatever would do the trick? Guess also if you are going to keep doing this for years or just a year or so would be a factor.

 

[JoelD]

My former truck as a GMC K2500 with 350 and 4:10. I pulled a 12000lb dozer on a tri-axle 9 ton trailer, I'm guessing total rig was around 15000 or so?

I would not tow that kind of load on a daily basis (I'm certain there are some legal matters in there somewhere also). But she pulled strong, acceleration of course took some time, but I never had to resort to low range while driving, even up the nastiest hills Keene NH has to offer.

She pulled my 5000lb BH with ease.

It is amazing how strong the old 350's are if geared correctly.

I've sold the dozer and now only need to transport the BH, which is rarely. I'll be using a ford F250 with a 351 and 3:55's. If I run into problems, I re-gear to 4:10 or so, that is a nice ratio for towing. Mileage is non-existant, but pulls super hard.

Joel

 

[2COR517]

I have a 97 GMC K2500 Ext Cab Longbed with Vortec 350 (275 hp I believe) 4.10 gears and 4L80 automatic. Truck is about 6500 lbs. with me and typical junk in the bed. Plenty of power off the line, but maintaining speed on hills the power just isn't there. I can haul about 9K trailer (14K total) fairly comfortably. Heaviest I hauled out at was 17K total. I'm not in a hurry to do that again. If you plan to fully load that trailer to 14K, you need a bigger truck and more motor. You're going to be rolling 20K. If can afford it, I hear the newer Chevy/GMC with the 8.1 are fantastic. You get the Allison transmission like the diesels which is indestructable. The mileage is no worse than the 6.0 engine. This is a good time to buy trucks, especially "gas guzzlers" like a one ton with the 8.1.