Pole barn question

[phaux]

I have some land in Commerce, Tx I would like to build a small shop/ shelter on. I need something to park a tractor in and work on projects and also a place to stay out at. I'm looking to build it 24 x 36. I'm going to be doing a concrete slab, will 4 inch be thick enough with 16 inch footer? I'm planning on using 2 7/8" drill stem pipe for the poles and 2 3/8" and perlins for the roof. The reason for the pipe is because it's cheap and readily available around here. Any input on this? How far apart from one another should the poles be placed? Any advice before I embark on this?

 

[scgargoyle]

4" should be thick enough, if there's adequate reinforcing wire. I had a machine shop with a 4" floor, and I had an 11,000 lb. CNC machine sitting on 4 small pads! I fully expected the floor to crack, but it never did. If you plan something like a lift- that's a different story.

 

[Modn]

I have some land in Commerce, Tx I would like to build a small shop/ shelter on. I need something to park a tractor in and work on projects and also a place to stay out at. I'm looking to build it 24 x 36. I'm going to be doing a concrete slab, will 4 inch be thick enough with 16 inch footer? I'm planning on using 2 7/8" drill stem pipe for the poles and 2 3/8" and perlins for the roof. The reason for the pipe is because it's cheap and readily available around here. Any input on this? How far apart from one another should the poles be placed? Any advice before I embark on this?

General rule of thumb is if you will be driving on it go 6". 4" I usually reserved for sidewalks and basement floors. I wouldn't go much over 4' O.C. for the pole spacing IMHO. I always went 8' O.C. for pole barns, but that was with 6x6 poles with 2x10 ribbon on both sides then the trusses sat on top. On another note, have you priced out the lumber to do stick framing? At least around here when pricing out a pole barn WITH a slab it is cheaper to stick build if you are doing the slab anyway. The pole barn is a nice feature though if you would like to pour concrete later on though which gives you options as the pole barn is self standing without concrete.

 

[phaux]

I can get pipe anywhere from .79 to $1 a foot. Plus I like steel, it lasts a good long time and I've had bad luck in the past with termites which sort of sets me off wood.

 

[Modn]

I can get pipe anywhere from .79 to $1 a foot. Plus I like steel, it lasts a good long time and I've had bad luck in the past with termites which sort of sets me off wood.

Good Point.....never thought of that as where I am that isn't much of a worry.

 

[Modn]

Just wondering what the "norm" is there? Do you set the pipe into the concrete, or do you set them into the ground and pour around, or both?

 

[SPIKER]

just wondering plans on sheeting? how to attach to the stem? Purlins rafters z channels ect. these will need to be thought of ahead of time as well. while U bolting might work it would be a slow and tedious job for sure. also wonder about wind loads on the stem, I'm sure it may get a small breeze now and again out there. What about local codes ect.

just a few questions prior to you gettin to far into it that you may want to think about.

Mark

 

[phaux]

I was planning on using purlins as I've seen a few other posts in which polls were used and they looked to be using purlins. Any advice on this area? I'm very new to all this and any advice would be greatly appreciated. As for on the inside I was planning on using some sort of spray on insulation and leaving it at that.

 

[wroughtn_harv]

I can get pipe anywhere from .79 to $1 a foot. Plus I like steel, it lasts a good long time and I've had bad luck in the past with termites which sort of sets me off wood.

That price is half or less of what I'm paying at my usual sources. I would have a couple of questions about the material.

All pipe isn't the same. What the steel yards sell as fence pipe schedule forty is the absolute minimum for wall thickness and I've found it inferior for strength also. The only stuff I'm aware of going for those prices is thin wall, real thin wall, fifteen-sixteen gauge.

I would use pipe and purlins. But then I've got a couple of patents pending on brackets using pipe to purlin and purlin to purlin construction.

 

[SnowRidge]

General rule of thumb is if you will be driving on it go 6". 4" I usually reserved for sidewalks and basement floors.

According to a contractor I have been talking to about pouring some concrete, 5,000 PSI fiber reinforced concrete, four inches thick, with no wire or bar at all is the way to go for a shop floor, parking area, and drive. He just did a job like that for a friend of mine.

 

[EddieWalker]

Listen to Harvey.

If you are buying used pipe, expect it to have thin areas and pinholes. That used oil field pipe is pretty bad for fences and totally worthless for structural integrity of a building.

Buy new and for a good supplier.

Eddie

 

[mjncad]

According to a contractor I have been talking to about pouring some concrete, 5,000 PSI fiber reinforced concrete, four inches thick, with no wire or bar at all is the way to go for a shop floor, parking area, and drive. He just did a job like that for a friend of mine.

Must be nice to have stable soils. Even with 5,000 PSI concrete, a slab like that will heave and sink in my area unless the ground beneath it is properly prepared, which rarely happens.

 

[3RRL]

I have some land in Commerce, Tx I would like to build a small shop/ shelter on. I need something to park a tractor in and work on projects and also a place to stay out at. I'm looking to build it 24 x 36. I'm going to be doing a concrete slab, will 4 inch be thick enough with 16 inch footer? I'm planning on using 2 7/8" drill stem pipe for the poles and 2 3/8" and perlins for the roof. The reason for the pipe is because it's cheap and readily available around here. Any input on this? How far apart from one another should the poles be placed? Any advice before I embark on this?

One thing haven't seen mentioned is the size of your building.
If you're not married to the size, I would seriously consider making it larger, or at the very least sectioning it off. Seems to me for all you want to do, store the tractor, work on it and projects, and a place to stay in, it would get pretty crowded right off the bat. You've probably got a bunch of tools, tables and shelves you'll need. Keeping dust, chips, shavings, welding splatter, oil, etc out of your living quarters or off your other stuff could become an issue. Your living quarters I imagine would need a bed, chair or small sofa, fridge, tv, heater maybe a sink and toilet even for minimum comfort? That all takes a little room. What about a place to fix a meal or two?
Just a thought...

 

[phaux]

Listen to Harvey.

If you are buying used pipe, expect it to have thin areas and pinholes. That used oil field pipe is pretty bad for fences and totally worthless for structural integrity of a building.

Buy new and for a good supplier.

Eddie

Well darn, that's what I was planning on using. I guess whats a suitable thickness and decently priced supplier around the Dallas/Ft. Worth area?

If you're not married to the size, I would seriously consider making it larger, or at the very least sectioning it off.

I suppose It wouldn't cost too much more to increase the size. What do you mean by sectioning it off?


Can the poles be attached to the concrete in any way after the slb has been poured, or do the poles need to be set in the concrete?


Any one in the DFW area happening to be putting one up any time soon I could lend a hand to helping with or willing to show me there set up to get a few ideas?

 

[psj12]

I also had a 4" floor on a footer poured, about the size of yours, in Oklahoma. The contractor suggested fiber reinforced concrete would be strong enough. Before he poured the floor I laid wire down. he scoffed at me but whent ahead and poured on it. The floor has since developed several thin cracks. I wouldn't like to think what it would do without the wire.

I think it cracked from thermal expansion and contraction not load. If I had it to do over I would probably put an expansion joint across the mid point of the floor.

 

[EddieWalker]

I have some land in Commerce, Tx I would like to build a small shop/ shelter on. I need something to park a tractor in and work on projects and also a place to stay out at. I'm looking to build it 24 x 36. I'm going to be doing a concrete slab, will 4 inch be thick enough with 16 inch footer? I'm planning on using 2 7/8" drill stem pipe for the poles and 2 3/8" and perlins for the roof. The reason for the pipe is because it's cheap and readily available around here. Any input on this? How far apart from one another should the poles be placed? Any advice before I embark on this?

The part when you say "drill stem pipe" is what made me think that you were buying used pipe. I'm not an oil guy, so I don't know anything about that type of pipe, or how thick the walls are.

Here are some things that you need to consider. Metal pipe for your poles will work great if they are strong enough. To get the proper strength, you can put the closer together and have a smaller span, or you can use larger material. Since you are building with pipe, I don't have a clue as to what these sizes should be. Before you start building, you need to know this.

24x36 is a nice sized building. While I agree that bigger is always better, and that this size building will probably fill up pretty fast, there are some advantages to it. 24 feet is a pretty easy distance to span for your roof truss. If at some time you find that you need more room, you can easily make it longer if you plan ahead and have room to do so.

Using pipe for your purlins on the walls shouldn't present too many issues. Are you going to use metal for the walls? The two things that I wonder about are how far can you span pipe on it's side without it sagging, and how hard will it be to screw the siding onto the round pipe?

For the roof, I have the same concerns. The sag of the pipe will become very important here as it will affect the integrity of the roof. If the pipe in the wall sag, you have an ugly wall, but if the pipe in your roof sags, you have the potential for failure and potential injury.

Since you are in the DFW area, have you gone to any metal building suppliers? I'm a big fan of Muellers and have no reservations on recomending them. It wont cost you anything to go visit with them and see what it would cost for a total kit to build your barn? They sell them with everything you need, ready to put together. I've done smaller ones for clients and found them to be challenging, but doable. Mostly it's a matter of laying everything out and finding the right piece.

I' a big fan of wood. If you are set on pipe, that's fine, but if you get to a point where it's too much to figure it out and build it the way you want it, then wood is something that's done all the time and pretty simple to design.

How are you going to build your roof trusses?

Eddie