Grapple Grappling for answers on Grapples

[IslandTractor]

Island,
What I am wanting to ensure is when I remove the loader from the tractor I can disconnect the lines running to the front torque tube as easliy as I can the ones that feed the loader up down and curl. These QD's are near the loader mount.
I also want to be able to via QD's remove the grapple and reinstall bucket at the troque tube.

I am not familar with hydraulic connections so I will have to work through ensuring the grapple connections and connectoins from the loader mate.

I think I understand. Are you planning to mount a bracket on the torque tube to capture the FEL hoses and quick connects? Almost everyone does. I did not on my first tractor because I was a lazy slob and just zip tied all the hoses to the torque tube.

If you do "permanently" mount the tractor side grapple hoses to the torque tube then there is no real reason to do anything else differently than on the lines that are used for lift and curl. Should you need to remove the loader you'd just disconnect the hoses at the tractor end (not the torque tube).

Having said this, my dealer convinced me to have split lines on my rear remote set up just so that it would be easier to remove the FEL. I had lines coming from the rear remote to a spot on the left FEL support post where they terminated with quick connects. The next line connected to those and when forward to the torque tube. No doubt that set up would have been more convenient if I dismounted my FEL every week but frankly it only takes about ten minutes to completely remove (and reinstall) the rear remote lines so splitting them was not necessary and cost me an extra two sets of quick connects and other fittings. No biggie but I would just use a single carefully measured length of hose from rear remote all the way to the torque tube and a handful of zip ties if I were to do it again.

 

[EastTnFarmboy]

Not sure if you have purchase your grapple yet. I have a L5240 with the same loader and QA you have. I purchase a Blue Diamond grapple made here in the Knoxville area. Photo attached. I have used it quite a lot over the last year or so to move logs and brush, etc. I have been very pleased with the quality and durability.

 

[Samandothers]

Island,
I do plan to have quick disconnects on the loader torque tube to allow the grapple to be disconnected and bucket connected. I plan another set of disconnects back near where the quick disconnects are for the 4 lines that go to the curl and up/down cylinders. This set will allow me to disconnect the 3rd line going to the torgue tube when i disconnect the up/down and curl when I am removing the entire loader.

East Tenn,
That is a nice looking grapple. What width and weight is that? It reminds me of the design Island talks about with the rocker shaped lower teeth. I have committed to a grapple from Markham Welding. I decided to go with one that was 60" about 450 lbs and a single 30" top tine. The Markham in 60 or 48" single tine is $900 plus shipping. I plan to pick mine up since they are about an hour away. I went back and forth on whether to get two top tines. They would be about 15" or 16" wide and set about 20" apart. On the Markham that would add about a 100lbs and $350. It is interesting the way the cyclinders are mounted on the ends of the tines. Does that grapple sell for roughly $1000, $1500 or $2000 if you don't mind sharing.

 

[IslandTractor]

Not sure if you have purchase your grapple yet. I have a L5240 with the same loader and QA you have. I purchase a Blue Diamond grapple made here in the Knoxville area. Photo attached. I have used it quite a lot over the last year or so to move logs and brush, etc. I have been very pleased with the quality and durability.

As Samandothers noted, the bottom of your grapple is a dead ringer for the Millonzi.

The two upper jaws are unusual in that the hydraulic cylinder is offset medially and not centered on the jaw. For brush I don't think that would be an issue but I would be a little concerned about twisting the upper jaw if I were, for example, clamping down on an asymmetric item like a boulder where the outside of the grapple arm edge stopped closing on a high spot and the hydraulic powered inside edge continued to close. That might twist the mount. Have you noticed anything like that happening?

 

[EastTnFarmboy]

Island,

I have used it for quite a few different applications including lifting odd-shaped items. I haven't noticed any problems at this point. It seems very well-built.

Samandothers,

The grapple is a 66" model. It weighs a little over 500 lbs, but I don't recall the exact weight and was unable to locate my spec sheet to confirm for you. The grapple was around $1,500 when I purchased it. I am attaching another photo that the manufacturer had provided me with. It is a little closer view.

 

[dknarnd]

Having said this, my dealer convinced me to have split lines on my rear remote set up just so that it would be easier to remove the FEL. I had lines coming from the rear remote to a spot on the left FEL support post where they terminated with quick connects. The next line connected to those and when forward to the torque tube. No doubt that set up would have been more convenient if I dismounted my FEL every week but frankly it only takes about ten minutes to completely remove (and reinstall) the rear remote lines so splitting them was not necessary and cost me an extra two sets of quick connects and other fittings. No biggie but I would just use a single carefully measured length of hose from rear remote all the way to the torque tube and a handful of zip ties if I were to do it again.

I set my tractor up like this with the first set of lines coming from my rear remote ending at the midpoint of the tractor where the FEL disconnects and am very glad I did. I still use zip ties, and one hose clamp, to hold my lines from the rear to the midpoint but it sure is nice not having to remove them when I disconnect the FEL once a year for cutting my fields. My rear lines are snaked up tight to the underchassis to prevent snags on brush when skidding logs and covered with a hose sheath for added protection.

 

[IslandTractor]

I set my tractor up like this with the first set of lines coming from my rear remote ending at the midpoint of the tractor where the FEL disconnects and am very glad I did. I still use zip ties, and one hose clamp, to hold my lines from the rear to the midpoint but it sure is nice not having to remove them when I disconnect the FEL once a year for cutting my fields. My rear lines are snaked up tight to the underchassis to prevent snags on brush when skidding logs and covered with a hose sheath for added protection.

I agree that is the plus side of splitting the hoses. However after having a set up like that I still think it is so easy to just remove and reinstall the lines that I wouldn't bother with it again. If I were to need to remove my FEL (something I haven't had to do), I'd either remove the lines altogether or just coil them out of harms way and lash them to the FEL mounting post until I reinstalled the FEL.

 

[Samandothers]

I picked up my Markham grapple yesterday. I attached it to the tractor and removed the pallet. Backed up far enough to take a few pictures. I still need to have the 3rd function valve installed. I hope to get that done this week. I had to opportunity to meet Allan Markham when I picked up the grapple. I enjoyed conversation with him and looked at few pieces of his skid steer attachments. They were very nice. There was on device that looked like it would be handy, what he called a stump grapple. It was made like a stump bucket but had a top tine attached. You can dig out the stump/tree and grab it with the grapple. It was 1/2 steel like his heavier grapples and more designed for skid steer use.
Here are a few pictures of the 60" grapple with 30" top tine. I had him add spacers in the bottom to narrow the gap between the teeth from 9 " to 4.5". This grapple is 3/8" steel and weighs some where around 480 to 500 lbs. While it is heavier than my square back bucket with tooth bar I don't think it will 'rob' too much of my loader capacity. I look forward to getting the hydraulics installed so I can play with it.

 

[jake98]

Sam

My grapple is way too big for my ck25 and it still works great. Don't lose any sleep over it. Ya gotta put enough weight on the back to balance, but I move tree sections and heaps of brush with n/p. My lot has got a slope too. That just adds to the fun.

Jake

I don't use it commercially of course...

 

[Samandothers]

Got the WR Long valve installed and had a chance to play with the grapple over Thanksgiving. Man this is a great tool for clearing brush. Anybody that has land to clear should have one of these. Some of the trees with shallow roots I was able to pop out of the ground. Some of the larger ones I dug out with the backhoe and then carried off with the grapple.
I also moved some rock with it. The rock took a bit of practice to pick up. The top tine is 30" wide and with smaller rock I had to position to get one tine on the rock or roll it over into the grapple. I like having the open bottom design (like a fork lift vs clam shell). For what I am doing carrying brush and rock it works great. I could see where if I was ripping roots this would not be the best design as it would put a lot pressure on the loader.

I appreciate the input from you folk. The input helped with the decision and the design selected. The Markham grapple is doing a great job. I would recommend it to those with compact tractors.

 

[IslandTractor]

I could see where if I was ripping roots this would not be the best design as it would put a lot pressure on the loader.

Ripping roots by driving forward with the grapple partially in the ground is really a job for a bulldozer, not a tractor. The design of all tractor FELs involves long vulnerable arms that are primarily designed to lift. Bulldozer arms are short and squat with no lift but much much better suited for ripping roots.

That said, ripping individual tree or bush roots with the FEL while the tractor is either stopped or moving forward slowly works just fine. I also have the open bottom style grapple and the extra leverage you get from the longer bottom tines compared to a clamshell seems to me a benefit (though I've never used a clamshell so that is just my interpretation).

 

[jake98]

I agree that is the plus side of splitting the hoses. However after having a set up like that I still think it is so easy to just remove and reinstall the lines that I wouldn't bother with it again. If I were to need to remove my FEL (something I haven't had to do), I'd either remove the lines altogether or just coil them out of harms way and lash them to the FEL mounting post until I reinstalled the FEL.

I remove the loader from time to time. What I have is a hollow cut off boat bumper that the hose ends sit nicely in, bungied to the loader support.

 

[Michelle K linnane]

I have some questions after reading the posts I am going to buy a markham rake. My questions is I have a JD 5103 and 500 series loader. I am not sure of the exact lift capacity of the loader but I know it is over a ton. Which is the best for my size tractor the 48 inch or 60 inch also I am thinking of
adding extra tines so the gap is only 4.5 inches considering that what is the best rake for my machine.
Also do the hydralics on the loader needed to be adapted for this implement the tractor is 2 years old and currently has front hydralics for my bucket and palet forks.
any info will be helpful
Michelle Linnane

 

[dangerdoc]

I have some questions after reading the posts I am going to buy a markham rake. My questions is I have a JD 5103 and 500 series loader. I am not sure of the exact lift capacity of the loader but I know it is over a ton. Which is the best for my size tractor the 48 inch or 60 inch also I am thinking of
adding extra tines so the gap is only 4.5 inches considering that what is the best rake for my machine.
Also do the hydralics on the loader needed to be adapted for this implement the tractor is 2 years old and currently has front hydralics for my bucket and palet forks.
any info will be helpful
Michelle Linnane

When you order the grapple, you can have them install the correct hydraulic connectors. I had them put pioneer connectors on mine.

I think you would be happy with either the 48 or 60, mine is even narrower and seems to do fine.

As far as adding narrower tines, I have standard spacing which I like, I can dig down into the dirt when I pick a load and the dirt can fall back out. I would think narrower tines would make it harder to knock the dirt out of your load. But I am moving brush, logs and big rocks, not small stuff.

 

[dangerdoc]

Ripping roots by driving forward with the grapple partially in the ground is really a job for a bulldozer, not a tractor. The design of all tractor FELs involves long vulnerable arms that are primarily designed to lift. Bulldozer arms are short and squat with no lift but much much better suited for ripping roots.

That said, ripping individual tree or bush roots with the FEL while the tractor is either stopped or moving forward slowly works just fine. I also have the open bottom style grapple and the extra leverage you get from the longer bottom tines compared to a clamshell seems to me a benefit (though I've never used a clamshell so that is just my interpretation).

I agree, I have pulled out a few roots with the grapple but if I wanted to go roaring through a field ripping up multiple roots, I do it with boxblade rippers. Not only does it pull up the debri, it tends to coral it up for you also.

 

[IslandTractor]

I have a similar capacity loader and am very happy with the 48.

You probably have rear remotes so you could use those to control the grapple by just adding relatively cheap hose and fittings. For ultimate convenience, a true third function valve could be added for a bit under $1000.

I have some questions after reading the posts I am going to buy a markham rake. My questions is I have a JD 5103 and 500 series loader. I am not sure of the exact lift capacity of the loader but I know it is over a ton. Which is the best for my size tractor the 48 inch or 60 inch also I am thinking of
adding extra tines so the gap is only 4.5 inches considering that what is the best rake for my machine.
Also do the hydralics on the loader needed to be adapted for this implement the tractor is 2 years old and currently has front hydralics for my bucket and palet forks.
any info will be helpful
Michelle Linnane

 

[dangerdoc]

I have a similar capacity loader and am very happy with the 48.

You probably have rear remotes so you could use those to control the grapple by just adding relatively cheap hose and fittings. For ultimate convenience, a true third function valve could be added for a bit under $1000.

That $1000 number is a little scary. If one has a power beyond on their current valve, a third valve function can be added for a quarter of that figure. Adding your own third valve also lets you decide where put it.

 

[IslandTractor]

That $1000 number is a little scary. If one has a power beyond on their current valve, a third valve function can be added for a quarter of that figure. Adding your own third valve also lets you decide where put it.

yes, you are correct. The $1000 figure is about what it would cost to have a WRLong kit installed by a dealer. Nice kit, nice thumb activated control that allows you to use the third function without moving your hand off the joystick, but pricey.

 

[swmich42]

I will be getting a FEL for my JD 4700 soon. Decided on the 400CX. Trying to decide on toothed bucket and grapple to attach. If I go with JD Dealer, their 73" bucket with teeth is $1185. Their smallest grapple, 60" Ag grapple is $2360. After looking at various posts from this site, I have contacted markham for a quote. My only concerns are; if I order from Markham, (I trust their quality) how will I configure and complete installation of the grapple? I am not experienced with hydrolics, nor tractor attachments. I am an amateur auto machanic.

 

[IslandTractor]

I am not experienced with hydrolics, nor tractor attachments. I am an amateur auto machanic.

I was not even an amateur auto mechanic much less knowledgable about hydraulics or tractor attachments when I purchased a light duty grapple and then figured out how to get it attached and powered. TBN resources are great for this task and you should not worry about whether you can do that. You will need to make some basic decisions about where you want the hydraulic power to come from (remotes vs valves) and you can read for weeks on TBN about the various considerations. Your tractor dealer can easily get things on the new tractor set up once you decide how you want it done (really a budget issue more than anything else if you want my interpretation of the various options). Connecting the last few hoses is duck soup and again there will be plenty of help via TBN. I think I (and many others here) could talk a blind nun through that part. Bottom line: don't be scared of hydraulics, the knowledge you need to attach a grapple is pretty easy to handle for a novice.

Regarding attachment of the grapple you really just need to decide if you want a standard "Bobcat/skidsteer" adapter on your tractor (I assume that is a JD option) or just ask Markham to build you a JD quickattach mount grapple.

Regarding the grapple, I would suggest you save money and just get the 48 inch standard duty version. I have an even lighter duty 48 inch grapple from a now extinct company (Millonzi) which has stood up to serious abuse over the past three years with a tractor/loader (Kioti DK40se/KL401) that is about the same power/weight as what you are purchasing. Use the grapple correctly and it will easily stand up to whatever your loader is capable of.