Your time is not free

[o2batsea]

My father once said, "there ain't no one worth $90 hr, and don't ever think you are so good that you can't be replaced." A lot of what I do boils down to economics. I may have the money to buy the parts, but not enough for a new machine, but plenty of time. Fix it. Troubles today are result of throw away mentality. Heck, I remember pulling nails and straightening for re use because couldn't afford to buy.

He was wrong. You are.

 

[Travelover]

............leave the tractor forum for its intended purpose.

Darn right, which is to discuss how much our time is worth. :laughing:

 

[aczlan]

And you have just contributed to cyberspace garbage in a post that is totally unrelated to your cause. Make these types of posts in your environmental forums and leave the tractor forum for its intended purpose.

Note the link in the signature. They are trying to advertise for their plastic sheets or something.


Aaron Z

 

[rjmack]

there are corporate lawyers out there making over $2500.00/hr, and working long hours.

people don't realize how skewed things have become.

$90.00/hr is no big deal anymore... average house price in vancouver is somewhere around 600k... and that is _average_.

i make $100.00/hr, but only on the weekends, and not very often... so does that make me a bigshot? not the slightest chance of me making the mortgage payments on a 600k shack. i really don't want to live in the city anyway so that's good, but if i did, or if i had too, i would be in deep trouble.

maybe the economist could chime in on this?

 

[lostcause]

how we justify our time and money varies for each of us. there is really no cut and dry right or wrong answer, especially when it comes to time we spend on something we consider a hobby.

certainly, if you don't like doing something it doesn't make much sense to spend hundreds of hours on something that could be bought for a few hundred, or even thousand dollars, but if you enjoy doing it, and can spare the time from your other duties to career and family, then it makes sense to do it. myself, i'd rather sit in the garage with a torch and welder than sit in the woods hoping a deer comes my way to shoot. many would disagree with me, but that's their preference. even the original poster makes the comment that he'd rather spend the money and have the free time to nap. myself, i'd never willfully opt for napping unless i'd been awake for an extremely long time and needed the rest, because it seems such a waste of time when i could be doing something else. just a personal preference.

for me, i also look at it from the point of view that anything i do myself frees up a certain amount of cash that can be used for something else. we all do have a finite amount of cash - some people's finite amount is vastly greater than others, however. the median income in the usa is about 50k a year, with the low and high states at 35k and 65k. it's easy to say that you can work more, or get another job to have more money to just pay for things, but somewhere there is a balance of time worked, available work hours, and free time that we all have to juggle. we all find what works best for us and our schedule.

i can say that in the last two years i have made far less (1/4 to 1/2 as much) as previous years, but i haven't been shackled to a desk, and my stress level has dropped greatly. i have done more myself to keep what cash reserves i have, and i'm happier and feel better. eventually i'll probably go back to the high stress world, because i want to build a vacation home/camp sometime in the next ten years, but for now this works for me.

 

[looknlearn]

how we justify our time and money varies for each of us. there is really no cut and dry right or wrong answer, especially when it comes to time we spend on something we consider a hobby.

certainly, if you don't like doing something it doesn't make much sense to spend hundreds of hours on something that could be bought for a few hundred, or even thousand dollars, but if you enjoy doing it, and can spare the time from your other duties to career and family, then it makes sense to do it. myself, i'd rather sit in the garage with a torch and welder than sit in the woods hoping a deer comes my way to shoot. many would disagree with me, but that's their preference. even the original poster makes the comment that he'd rather spend the money and have the free time to nap. myself, i'd never willfully opt for napping unless i'd been awake for an extremely long time and needed the rest, because it seems such a waste of time when i could be doing something else. just a personal preference.

for me, i also look at it from the point of view that anything i do myself frees up a certain amount of cash that can be used for something else. we all do have a finite amount of cash - some people's finite amount is vastly greater than others, however. the median income in the usa is about 50k a year, with the low and high states at 35k and 65k. it's easy to say that you can work more, or get another job to have more money to just pay for things, but somewhere there is a balance of time worked, available work hours, and free time that we all have to juggle. we all find what works best for us and our schedule.

i can say that in the last two years i have made far less (1/4 to 1/2 as much) as previous years, but i haven't been shackled to a desk, and my stress level has dropped greatly. i have done more myself to keep what cash reserves i have, and i'm happier and feel better. eventually i'll probably go back to the high stress world, because i want to build a vacation home/camp sometime in the next ten years, but for now this works for me.

Good post. :thumbsup:

 

[o2batsea]

how we justify our time and money varies for each of us. there is really no cut and dry right or wrong answer, especially when it comes to time we spend on something we consider a hobby.

You miss the point. This discussion has nothing to do with hobby time. If your hobby is making widgets to mount on a tractor that's great. Don't then turn around and say, "hey guys I just built a corn fritter for my tractor for nuthin cuz I made it out of my Brother in Law's Yugo". That is no longer hobby time but tool making time. You may have had a ball doing it, but you just "spent" time in the process of adding to your tool chest. Now you own something that you did not have before. It definitely cost you. It is absolutely no different than working the hours for a wage that it would cost to buy it.
So now you are basicly "Lostcause, Inc." and no longer a hobbyist, so you have to consider your overhead, materials, labor, property tax, blah blah blah in your hourly rate.

 

[lostcause]

You miss the point. This discussion has nothing to do with hobby time. If your hobby is making widgets to mount on a tractor that's great. Don't then turn around and say, "hey guys I just built a corn fritter for my tractor for nuthin cuz I made it out of my Brother in Law's Yugo". That is no longer hobby time but tool making time. You may have had a ball doing it, but you just "spent" time in the process of adding to your tool chest. Now you own something that you did not have before. It definitely cost you. It is absolutely no different than working the hours for a wage that it would cost to buy it.
So now you are basicly "Lostcause, Inc." and no longer a hobbyist, so you have to consider your overhead, materials, labor, property tax, blah blah blah in your hourly rate.

actually, i think my point may have been missed. what i'm trying to say is that there is a 95% chance that the person who spent 100's of hours converting said yugo into a farm implement did not have a limitless fund of cash to do it with. they didn't leave the 5 mil in the bank and spend all their time to create a $5000 implement. likely, they were in a position where they could not justify or afford the $5000, but they were able to come up with free time to replace the cash. it's not free, you either spend a lot of cash or a lot of time.

let's say you wanted something that cost $5000 if you were to buy it. the alternative is spending $1000 in materials and maybe a horrendous 400 hours in labor. you're going to look at that by saying that the person is crazy because they only paid themselves $10 an hour for their time. another person will look at that and say that they are able to do this and save $4000. they are likely to do it because there was no easy and fast way to get the extra $4000 by working more, or taking a second job, or maybe they just don't like given profession enough to want to spend any more time at it than they already do.

everyone's time (and money) is valuable in different ways is the point i am trying to make. what you consider to be a wise use of your time is not the same for everyone. the last 20 years i spent working at a career that was sometimes too much for me. i worked night shift for the extra money, i worked weekends for the overtime. i worked out of state and out of country for months at a time to try to get ahead... i've just turned 40 and i can say that regardless of the time i may spend on a project, my other half would certainly rather have me at home and out in the shop as opposed to off working the way i used to.

i am not blind to the cost, so i do weigh the time spent against the cost. if it's a cookie cutter item that can be purchased for a few hundred dollars, then i'd likely not do it myself. however, if it is something i want that will cost several thousand, i'm likely to make it myself, because i can keep the same lifestyle i have now, and not have to outlay all that cash.

as for it not being a hobby, i think that's a decision for each person too. if you're an avid golfer, you'll spend a decent amount of money on new clubs every few years. greens fees every weekend, wear and tear on that big suv that clutters up the parking lot, and if you're a really elite golfer, course memberships running several hundred to several thousand dollars a year. my "hobby" shop consists of an old lathe, old mill/drill, small band saw, couple new(ish) welders, torches, and big toolbox of other odds and ends collected over the last 20 years. the big ticket items (lathe, mill, saw, welders, torches) have totalled about $3500 over the years, and the cost of consumables is probably a couple hundred a year. i could easily spend more money golfing. i certainly do consider it to be a hobby, because after 20 years of a desk job, i enjoy being able to spend some night and weekend time working with my hands.

 

[The Haymaker]

I agree that most folks are missing your point. Time is a limited resource.


Steve

But for many of us, money is even more so!

 

[The Haymaker]

actually, i think my point may have been missed. what i'm trying to say is that there is a 95% chance that the person who spent 100's of hours converting said yugo into a farm implement did not have a limitless fund of cash to do it with. they didn't leave the 5 mil in the bank and spend all their time to create a $5000 implement. likely, they were in a position where they could not justify or afford the $5000, but they were able to come up with free time to replace the cash. it's not free, you either spend a lot of cash or a lot of time.

:thumbsup:This.:thumbsup:

 

[Reverend Blair]

Well, today I have to build a temporary step for the back door. I like doing that kind of thing, so it's free. Then I have to do some electrical. I enjoy that in the summer, but it's cold out so I'm not going to enjoy the outside part of the work. The inside part will be fun though.

Then I can insulate. I hate insulating. It's dull, repetitive, and itchy.

I would never even consider paying somebody to do these things for me though. I know how to do them and my time is free. What else is there to do, watch TV? There's also the matter of being able to say, "I did that," when the job is done.

While I'm doing that, Mrs. Rev will be cleaning the kitchen, which she hates, and putting up Christmas decorations, which she enjoys.

 

[harpoonalt]

The point that is missed is we don't tell you to value your time as free, but you. Insist on telling us how to value our time. Everyone is acutely aware of the tradeoffs they make of time vs money. If lostcause builds something for ten bucks and ten hours it's his right to say the cost was ten bucks, without someone questioning that. You're sucking the fun out of life with your pointless argument. Exactly what is accomplished by questioning peoples cost claims? Spend your time wisely was your point. My point is that is up to each individual and them alone. If they value it as free , let them, without argument.

 

[captaincrab55]

I see so many threads where the poster claims they only have a few bucks worth of materials in a project. I always calculate my own "shop hourly rate" into my projects to see whether I am actually saving money by doing some of these things myself. My personal rate is $90/hr.
My current wind powered pond aerator project is rapidly nearing the cost of the commercially available ones using this calc, but I'm in too deep to stop now so I will just go on and see it through.
It's an old habit and hard to break as the urge to do it myself is very strong. I am learning slowly that everything you bring home takes a little piece of your life away from you, whether it is a dozen eggs, a TV or a tractor. Spend your time wisely.

o2batsea, Are you working on that aerator project after hours, Saturdays and Sundays? If so, one needs to figure Overtime and Doubletime.... If my wife ever reads this Thread, I'll never hear the end of what she's worth for the household chores and not to mention her time compared to them Vegas gals.....

btw, Merry Christmas

 

[two_bit_score]

I agree.

 

[Mounted Madness]

Since everyone seems to have one, might as well throw mine in as well.

As was said earlier on, we have a finite time on the planet, various opportunities and abilities to enjoy the life granted to you, and the general freedom to do so.

Life is an experience, and from my perspective, the more experience one gains, the greater the value in the end.

When that last moment arrives, I'd rather be totally engrossed in the 'flashback' instead of drifting off before it ends due to boredom.

I enjoy reading these posts, playing on my BX, driving my wife to work, and having a nap in the afternoon, and lots of other things as well. The value of these things to me is priceless. I'll pay someone to do those jobs I don't want to do, postpone those that can be postponed until I want to do them, and do those jobs I enjoy doing.

Let the lawyers and insurance companies determine what my time is worth... I'm just here to enjoy it as best as I can, and I suspect most everyone else is as well.:thumbsup:

 

[Reverend Blair]

Okay, done for the day. I did manage to get a bit of a shock while doing the electrical though.

So my question is: Do I charge myself for the related pain and suffering (this might take as many as three beer and four cigarettes to fully recover from), since I'm the main contractor, or do I charge my wife for the pain and suffering, since she threw the wrong breaker? Is my wife considered a sub-contractor in this case?

Also, my neighbour came over to ask me if I could clear a bit of snow for him. He looked thirsty so I gave him a beer. Is this a business expense? If so, how much should I claim for the beer? It was home-made, part of my special batch of black caramel and almond Christmas beer that I started back in September, which is quite labour intensive to produce.

 

[captaincrab55]

Okay, done for the day. I did manage to get a bit of a shock while doing the electrical though.

Sound like One needs to file an OSHA report for that Electric Shock accident ??? R B, Do you have Workers Comp Ins ???

 

[Reverend Blair]

R B, Do you have Workers Comp Ins ???

Not on myself, although I do carry comp for casual labour in the summer. I figure if some yahoo manages to shovel his own toe off, I don't want to be giving him my house.

I'm personally insured through my small business policy, so if I shovel my own toe off, I can give myself my house and it won't cost me anything I wouldn't have paid anyway.

I'm not sure if Mrs. Rev has a policy at all. Which raises the question if I should sue her as the sub-contractor or myself as the general contractor, or us as the homeowners.

 

[captaincrab55]

I'm not sure if Mrs. Rev has a policy at all. Which raises the question if I should sue her as the sub-contractor or myself as the general contractor, or us as the homeowners.

R B, That's funny..... Merry Christmas

 

[greasemonkeyok]

Unsolicited advice to Reverend Blair. Don't take your case to a lawyer, you'll make his head explode.