Your time is not free

[rus_geek]

This is quite amusing, really. The OP was commenting on the point that if you only consider the monetary cost of a project, you're missing the big picture. So a bunch of people are bashing the OP and saying that if you only consider the monetary cost of project, you're missing the big picture. Anyone catch that?

The original theory that your time is worth something is perfectly valid. Some of us got thrown off by attaching a $ to that worth. The arguments against saying your time is worth something mostly say that the enjoyment of a project is worth something. But enjoying something doesn't put money in your pocket either!

Somewhere, there's a mathematician locked up in his basement with eighty-seven chalkboards working on a formula that will give you the guaranteed right answer to the DIY v. hire decision for every task. Meanwhile, each of us has to come up with our own solution. Something like:

COST = materials cost + time cost - enjoyment cost - experience gained

Say I can buy a new brush hog for $800. Can buy a decent used one for $400. I bought one beat to @#$t at an auction for $100. Got some free sheet metal to repair the deck. Spent four hours taking it apart, welding on a new deck and bolting back on the hardware. This was my first welding project, so I got to spend time with my brother-in-law learning. And I know *every* part of my brush hog now since I've installed every one of them. How much is my enjoyment and experience "worth" in this? $100 ? $1000 ?

COST = $100 + $360 - $100 - $100 = $260 Cheaper than a used one!

It's really hard to measure our enjoyment and experience in dollar amounts, which is why it's really hard to attach a dollar amount to our "fun" time.

I got a little long-winded, but I guess my point is that most of y'all are agreeing and you just having figured it out yet!

 

[Travelover]

............

I got a little long-winded, but I guess my point is that most of y'all are agreeing and you just having figured it out yet!

It is called being in violent agreement. :laughing:

 

[smstonypoint]

Somewhere, there's a mathematician locked up in his basement with eighty-seven chalkboards working on a formula that will give you the guaranteed right answer to the DIY v. hire decision for every task. Meanwhile, each of us has to come up with our own solution. S

WARNING!!! This post discusses economics.

Give me your "utility function" and I will solve the problem for you. It will make the math easier for me if it is of the Cobb-Douglas form, but I can handle others.

A little economics humor, very little.

Seriously, neo-classical economists assume that individuals are rational and that they maximize their utility (satisfaction) subject to constraints on their income and time. That being said, neo-classical economists would argue that you have implicitly solved that problem when you make your decision.

Economists can't observe utility functions directly, but we can make predictions about how individuals will respond to changes in prices, income, etc.

The bottom line. If you are rational (and you are, aren't you?), your choice is the best choice for you.

Steve

 

[LD1]

Somewhere, there's a mathematician locked up in his basement with eighty-seven chalkboards working on a formula that will give you the guaranteed right answer to the DIY v. hire decision for every task. Meanwhile, each of us has to come up with our own solution. Something like:

COST = materials cost + time cost - enjoyment cost - experience gained

It is quite simple actually. At least in math terms.

If.......Time cost=enjoyent cost + experience gained they cancel each other out.

There...COST=materials cost.


I think that is the way most here are viewing it.

No one is missing the big picture here. I would much rather spend time in the shop "tinkering as my wife calls it" than sitting in the house trying to find something worth watching on my "250 some channels" at 1:30 in the afternoon.

If someone has anything at all that they would rather do than work on a project, then YES their time is worth something. But if you are like me, there is really nothing I enjoy more than spending a day in the shop "tinkering" on something. I buy "junk" off c-list all the time because I am always looking for that next project. My current think is buying used implements and also chainsaws off c-list and at auctions. I then fix them up and re-sell them for more than I paid for them. THAT puts money in my pocket. No where even close to $90 per hour, probabally closer to $10-20 per hour. But I absolutly enjoy it. I guess I look at it this way......anythiing else I do, like watching TV, COSTS me $10-$20 per hour.

 

[bobodu]

YOUR TIME isn't really YOURS...you are only borrowing it.

 

[SensibleNick]

YOUR TIME isn't really YOURS...you are only borrowing it.

From whom?

Maaaan.... I Hate owing people... what am I going to have to do when I give it back?

 

[Renze]

This is quite amusing, really. The OP was commenting on the point that if you only consider the monetary cost of a project, you're missing the big picture. So a bunch of people are bashing the OP and saying that if you only consider the monetary cost of project, you're missing the big picture. Anyone catch that?

Everybody catches that, but get annoyed that the OP tries to bash through an open door: Even though his points are economically valid, would he also argue with a Hells Angel about cost of ownership and reliability of a Harley, over a dull but reliable BMW bike ?? i guess not.

 

[Iplayfarmer]

Seriously, neo-classical economists assume that individuals are rational and that they maximize their utility (satisfaction) subject to constraints on their income and time. That being said, neo-classical economists would argue that you have implicitly solved that problem when you make your decision.

Wasn't there recently a Nobel Prize or some such given to a team of economists that did research to indicate that individuals don't actually act rationally? I don't remember the whole story, but do remember thinking at the time that this turns a lot of my college economics on its ear, and all of a sudden the successes of WalMart and Starbucks make sense. The other thought I had was that it took a team of high brow academics to prove what every husband already knows... shoppers don't usually think rationally.

 

[smstonypoint]

Wasn't there recently a Nobel Prize or some such given to a team of economists that did research to indicate that individuals don't actually act rationally? I don't remember the whole story, but do remember thinking at the time that this turns a lot of my college economics on its ear, and all of a sudden the successes of WalMart and Starbucks make sense. The other thought I had was that it took a team of high brow academics to prove what every husband already knows... shoppers don't usually think rationally.

WARNING!!!!. More about economics.

There's a branch of economics called "behavioral economics" that focuses on some aspects of observed behavior that appear to conflict with the predictions of models that assume rationality. Several Nobel Laureates have made contributions to behavioral economics.

Steve

 

[Scotty370]

Man, you folks are getting waaaaaayy, too deep in this for my blood! I just think that "Shop-Time" or "Seat-Time" is something I want to do..........!~S

 

[Don87]

Man, you folks are getting waaaaaayy, too deep in this for my blood! I just think that "Shop-Time" or "Seat-Time" is something I want to do..........!~S

This is the "key" to the thread.
If you are doing it for yourself, in your spare time...........it actually costs 'nothing'.

 

[jas67]

...Call me a redneck, hick, hillbilly, I don't care. It's happened before. Imagine the looks I get when I pull into the MD's parking lot with my lifted F350!!!

Just don't call me a Yuppie and lump me into the metrosexual, 100$ haircut, weekly pedicure, BMW 3 series driving, can't do **** for themselves crowd,

And just what is wrong with driving a BMW 3-series (not all BMW drivers fit your stereotype). I happen to have and drive TWO BMW 3-series (a 2000 and a 1994), AND a 4WD F-350 w/ Powerstroke Diesel. Of course, I'm a DIYer and a bit of a red neck compared to most BMW drivers.

Don't knock it till you try it. BMW's are great drivers' cars. Too bad that have a stigma due to some of the 1st owners (both mine were purchased pre-owned, for cash, after someone else took the depreciation hit).

 

[jas67]

Nope, doesn't exactly fit. Cutting and burning firewood DOES have actual monetary value because if you didn't, you would have to buy (with money) a substitute fuel. You are spending your time to avoid a fuel bill.

Now another way of looking at it is this. It used to cost us about $1400 per winter to keep our house at 63 deg and we regularly wore light coats around the house to keep the propane bill as low as possible. In comparison, it's 75 in the house right now and I'm about to chuck another log in the stove. If I had kept the house at 75 with propane, the bill would have been substantially more, so what am I saving? What we actually spent at 63 degrees or what we would have spent had we enjoyed this comfort level?

I choose to say we're saving $1400 minus whatever it costs me to gather the wood. The comfort level is not actually additional savings because we would have never turned the thermostat up this high before. It's more of a non-monetary bonus for having wood heat. The pleasure I get from gathering wood isn't something you can quantify into money either really unless you stretch it to equating the amount of pleasure to something you would pay for like a vacation but then it gets REALLY theoretical.

Ian

This was my point as well. We're saving money, AND being more comfortable. And yes, I too enjoy being outdoors gathering and processing the wood. I sit at a desk all week long for my job, so it is nice to get outside and do work that is more physical, and less thinking.

 

[jgrreed]

And just what is wrong with driving a BMW 3-series (not all BMW drivers fit your stereotype). I happen to have and drive TWO BMW 3-series (a 2000 and a 1994), AND a 4WD F-350 w/ Powerstroke Diesel. Of course, I'm a DIYer and a bit of a red neck compared to most BMW drivers.

Don't knock it till you try it. BMW's are great drivers' cars. Too bad that have a stigma due to some of the 1st owners (both mine were purchased pre-owned, for cash, after someone else took the depreciation hit).

Apologies... I think you and I are in the same boat..... I have tried it.

If you like your 3-series because it is a great car, carry on..... if you like it because it's what helps you fit in with your metrosexual friends.....well, then......

-Jer.

 

[grunewald]

Back to the original subject, think for DIYers, it comes down to saving cash, your trade off is X amount of $ versus X amount of labor (your free time). My hour rate is probably close to zero. If I had my hourly rate at $90.00, I would not have much of anything accomplished at my place in the past 25 plus years, never could have afforded it if contracted out, dishing out my hard earned cash. Only thing I have contracted out were sidewalks and slab for garage. Built my own workshop, ran all my water and electrical lines (under ground ) dug my own stocktank, do my own plumbing repairs and electrical repairs, wife and I had house built as "liveable now" , so we painted house, did our own floors, etc. Would be interesting to go back in my memory, estimate what a contractor would have charged for all of this, subtract material I used, then see how much I saved. Would not be suprised if it come out close to 6 figures (wild guess). This is why we do it ourselves. If I charged myself $90.00 per hour, most dedicated professionals in their trade would be cheaper than me? Makes no sense whatsoever.

 

[fixit]

I dont think you can put a price on family time or money saved by doing a job yourself

I do most every thing myself and i work for myself running a company that employs 16 poeple
Its been 3 years since i paid another man to work at our home and that was to lay the concreat in my workshop floor but it is 95 feet long and 30 feet deep and he done a better job than i could have and it didn't cost much more than it would of to hire the tools to do it myself
but i put the building up myself and wouldn't have had it any other way

But when i am at home in the workshop the 2 oldest sons come down with me from time to time and my girl has spent many hours helping me they all know how to weld the eldest is quite good now and as soon as our 2 year old son is big enough i hope he will take an interest as well

so if im in the workshop repairing and building my own stuff or building the extra rooms on the house or fencing or the like as long as the kids are with me and they are learning on the way its got to be better than paying somone else to do it for me and hopfully it will teach them to work hard and not part with the money they earn easily

 

[o2batsea]

It's not about paying someone else to do what you yourself are capable of. Of course you save money doing it yourself.
Just don't say that it was cost free.

 

[JCC]

Don't know if this has been said before (too many posts to read, coming to thread late).

All this talk of your time is not free is really only valid if you happen to have enough money to pay to have everything hired out or bought.

If I say my time is worth $100/hr and a project takes 100 hours (lets not count material) then its cost is $10,000, lets say that is also the cost to purchase the item. But if I do not have the $10,000 to spend to purchase or if the $10K can be spent on more important things, then by doing it myself it is just as if I had actually earned $10K or spent my time working at $100/hr because I have created using just my time something with a value of $10K without spending the money.

So in that respect DIY is just like earning money. Other than the pure enjoyment of making something yourself which is very high for many people, the main motivation for DIY is to save money in that case your time is indeed not free but your time is actually equivalent to earning money.

 

[Arky217]

So, TBN reader, you value your time at $xx/hour ?

If you were in your last hour of life,
how much would another hour be worth to you ?

There is no 'value' to your time,
there is only value in how wisely you use it.

 

[JCC]

So, TBN reader, you value your time at $xx/hour ?

If you were in your last hour of life,
how much would another hour be worth to you ?

There is no 'value' to your time,
there is only value in how wisely you use it.

Personally the last hour would not be worth much, got to punch out eventually, but the last year, that would be priceless.