YM336D - Started knocking loud while tilling

[California]

For anybody who got a bad HF torque wrench - take it back for exchange! Its a screwy business model, but HF recognizes their uneven quality and is gracious about exchanges until you get an item that works.

I wouldn't use this 'precision instrument' without a beam torque wrench for comparison - but this really is more convenient.

 

[KubotainNH]

Just for conversation but my Snap-On digital torque wrench was well over $400 has a gps in it or something because it measures degrees of swing as in torque to yield (crap bolts) bolts, its 1/2 inch drive and does inch pounds, Nm, sae, degrees, answers to hey you well not that but is aircraft certified also. I trust it also is a buzzer and a vibrator in the handle when torque is reached and tells you the exact value you stopped at

Wow, does it make coffee?

For anybody who got a bad HF torque wrench - take it back for exchange! Its a screwy business model, but HF recognizes their uneven quality and is gracious about exchanges until you get an item that works.

I wouldn't use this 'precision instrument' without a beam torque wrench for comparison - but this really is more convenient.

I'm not sure where mine came from, I got it as a gift. I'm just saying don't assume it's accurate. Never loosening up a clicker type is supposed to stretch the spring, maybe I didn't do that once. :confused3:

 

[Car Doc]

I agree with California on the beam types. From my experience if they are off it shows on the scale the needle will be one way or the other when they bend or are over torqued.

I really used to like Snap-On beam/dial torque wrenches they were bullet pruf and I would go back to one if I ever got to where I saw the digital wasn't doing a good job. Its just hard to see the beam scale or dial on some applications especially when its in the 200+ ft pounds range. Its all you can do just to move it let alone watch the gage :laughing: is why I even use a digital fwtw.

Clicker types wear internally the clicker is a triangle shaped piece of metal that goes over center when the set amount is reached and the tip of this piece is critical to accuracy and wears. At least thats how they were explained to me by my Snap-On man.

 

[jonyyuma]

I( use both types..Beam is craftsman and the clicker is snap-on.. Inch pounds is Grainger, with a dial.

 

[KubotainNH]

I agree with California on the beam types. From my experience if they are off it shows on the scale the needle will be one way or the other when they bend or are over torqued.

I really used to like Snap-On beam/dial torque wrenches they were bullet pruf and I would go back to one if I ever got to where I saw the digital wasn't doing a good job. Its just hard to see the beam scale or dial on some applications especially when its in the 200+ ft pounds range. Its all you can do just to move it let alone watch the gage :laughing: is why I even use a digital fwtw.

Well, if it got bent then it wouldn't read 0 anymore when stationary so you at least would know it's off. True enough on the high ft pounds but my clicker would never get close to that range. If I need to get up there I'd mark it with tape and have my son tell me when I'm there. As for the multiple hundreds of dollar ones, that's beyond my affordability range. Do you get them calibrated often?

Any news Domush??

 

[Domush]

In an attempt to avoid the inevitable fund drain, I've been doing some web work to pass the time

I'll be back on it in a couple of days.

I'm curious how off my clicker type is, now. It's near new, but it wasn't delicately handled during my last move and I've never calibrated it. I do miss my dad's needle version. I likely messed that one up, though, as I played with that all of the time as a little kid.. was such a cool tool to measure my strength with

 

[5030]

Problem with any mechanical type torque instrument is it goes 'out of calibration' over time. I have my Snap-On dial wrenches re-calibrated every 2 years.

I use them in critical applications where fastener torque must be correct. When applying a torque value, any fastener will elongate (stretch) to a degree. Sometimes that elongations renders the fastener not reuseable for any application.

However, applied torque can be dry torque or wet (with compound of some type) applied to the threads. That's usually specified by the particular application and if not specified, is assumed to be dry (as in pre-cleaned mating threads).

 

[Car Doc]

In my world as a rule if a head bolt etc goes into coolant it needs sealer on threads and if its a blind hole motor oil all with clean threads.

My torque wrenches get replaced every few years they get used on everything I work on so after that much time they are in need of rebuild so I buy new ones.

I am of the opinion and its an educated one based on years of doing it that if the torque sequence calls for 3 steps I divide it into 4 or 5 and so on but thats me. You can tell when a bolt has had enough it just wont tighten. I see brand new head bolts that wont tighten I replace them on almost every engine I build.

Just for conversation but some engines I work on require me to torque them all the way up thru sequence and then un-torque them in order. Then re-torque them a second time that is a time consuming operation on v6 and v8 engines with 4 cams and no room to work.

 

[bruce1966us]

I would bet 10-1 that I can come within 5lbs just by feel over the cheap torgue wrenches. I just do it every day...

 

[5030]

Torgue Wrench????

New tool??:thumbsup:

Must be a tool for the morgue???

 

[jonyyuma]

CarDoc, Sounds real good..I believe in good head bolts..and fasteners. There is no sinking feeling as when a bolt goes soft or suddenly snaps...I also hate bubbling head gaskets, so i seal the threads...Some bolts are good for only one time...

 

[clemsonfor]

A quick hijack but related to the last post and i will then yeild back to this interesting post.

Removing the exhaust manifold in my Saturn yesterday as it was broken and leaking. One stud snapped offf at the head. And it was one of the few that i put a bit of foward pressure on before i backed it out. I think it was weak or overtorqued at the factory as it twited off with very little pressure, actually about half of what was exerted on some of the others. I now am going to see if there is enought left to weld a nut to (i dont think there is) then have to try and drill it out!! Seems like its always something!!

Any tips i you wanna throw at me i will take. I m sure Domush can use them when trying to remove his exhaust on that as well.

 

[Car Doc]

Well my first rule is never heat anything I will undoubtedly have to drill later when for example my weld fails or twists off the last bit to grab onto which they almost always do on this type work thats #1.

Rule #2 (& 5 are close) is always drill a small hole exactly in the center and all the way straight thru and spray oil it inside and if at all possible I do that when I am shutting the lights off for the day.

Rule #3 is use sharp bits! I always have a brand new box of cobalts just for this they dont drill anything but broken exhaust studs etc.

Rule #4 drill up a step at a time until its tap size for that hole and tap it with a good USA made tap. Now sometimes if I did my job right I use a reversed bit and at the last step of drilling sometimes just sometimes the rest will back out and only minimal thread cleaning is required.

Rule #5 is sometimes I take a cut off wheel and make a sideways cut like for a screwdriver bit to fit in on a flush bolt and I extend it into the casting if necessary and air/sprayoil all the chips off good, fact I almost always do that first if I think I can get away with it and then drill my pilot just depends on how stuck they may be.

Then I get a nice sharp flat head screwdriver and a wrench on it and give that a try. Sometimes a torch can help heat the metal around but as soon as you go a bit too far forget the easy drilling you have tempered steel then and only cobalts will drill only reasonably well.

Then when the drill or tap breaks I get out my Rescue bit and drill them out thats a last resort that bit is a monster find them online or Snap-On truck. http://store.theoriginalrescuebit.com/RescueBits/

(notice I didn't get the welder out on a flush broken bolt? there is a time but not now ) hth :thumbsup:

 

[clemsonfor]

One more on this Hi-Jack.

Looked after i posted. The bolt is actually 1/16 or so broke in the head, so i have nothing to weld too. Plus its an Al head i think, pretty sure i just dont remember and havent paid that close attention, if i weld it, im not that good on this type stuff and i will probly burn a hole in the head!!!!

Im going the route of hoping i get the center punched well and steping it up a bit at the time then try a easy out. I do like the idea of cross cutting a slot in it. I can then use an impact screw driver and hope that frees it!!

 

[California]

Car Doc thanks for that list! I learned a lot.

Not a professional mechanic here, it's been a year since I had to replace a stud. (photo) (post - 'that wasn't supposed to break'). One tip I read on here (from Soundguy??) suggested heat the area around the stud gently to expand it away from the stud, then let it suck paraffin or PB Blaster etc down into the threads as it cools. Disclaimer: I haven't tried this. Drilling clear though to get lube below the stud sounds like a better idea.

 

[5030]

Well my first rule is never heat anything I will undoubtedly have to drill later when for example my weld fails or twists off the last bit to grab onto which they almost always do on this type work thats #1.

Rule #2 (& 5 are close) is always drill a small hole exactly in the center and all the way straight thru and spray oil it inside and if at all possible I do that when I am shutting the lights off for the day.

Rule #3 is use sharp bits! I always have a brand new box of cobalts just for this they dont drill anything but broken exhaust studs etc.
Rule #4 drill up a step at a time until its tap size for that hole and tap it with a good USA made tap. Now sometimes if I did my job right I use a reversed bit and at the last step of drilling sometimes just sometimes the rest will back out and only minimal thread cleaning is required.

Rule #5 is sometimes I take a cut off wheel and make a sideways cut like for a screwdriver bit to fit in on a flush bolt and I extend it into the casting if necessary and air/sprayoil all the chips off good, fact I almost always do that first if I think I can get away with it and then drill my pilot just depends on how stuck they may be.

Then I get a nice sharp flat head screwdriver and a wrench on it and give that a try. Sometimes a torch can help heat the metal around but as soon as you go a bit too far forget the easy drilling you have tempered steel then and only cobalts will drill only reasonably well.

Then when the drill or tap breaks I get out my Rescue bit and drill them out thats a last resort that bit is a monster find them online or Snap-On truck. 1/8" x 3" Double Ended Rescue Bit - The Original Rescue Bit Store

(notice I didn't get the welder out on a flush broken bolt? there is a time but not now ) hth :thumbsup:

Lets modify 2 & 3 a bit......

Learn how to offhand sharpen twist drills and relieve the webs. That goes a long way toward drilling holes in anything, actually using up a dtill bit instead of buying new ones, and, a properly sharpened twist drill with relieved webs usuall drills easily and straight....

Secondly, forget the 'Cobalt' drill bits. Bright HSS is just as tough as M42 Cobalt in most instances except when drilling old high carbon studs that have become hard from thousands of heat/cool cycles.

Get yourself a couple Die Reclaim drills from solid micrograin tungsten carbide.

MA Ford makes them as well as others. They are quite capable of drilling glass, hardened steel, armor plate, heat treated HSS, anything very hard and brittle. They are usually 2 straight flutes (no twist) and the recommended lubricant is water.

I turned the technicians on to them at the shop where it was a nightmare to drill the broken exhaust studs out of a 3406 Cat block. They were going through drills like water. Not any more.

 

[284 International]

To take this further on a tangent, I spent literally all afternoon trying to drill two holes. One was a 1/4" hole through a hydraulic pump shaft, and the other was a 1/2" hole through mild steel. I broke every bit I have (7 or 8) in the 1/4" range.

Next, I ruined a pair of 18 dollar carbide burrs in my die grinder, and wore out a grinding burr to finally finish a 1/2" deep quarter-inch diameter hole. After wearing myself out and breaking my last pilot bit trying to drill a half-inch hole through mild steel, I gave up and decided I would weld the joint instead. So, I've got some nice spatter marks and burns through my jeans and skin to show for that.

The moral of the story is to learn how to drill holes and sharpen bits, and to not try difficult projects at my house; it gets too expensive! :laughing:

 

[winston1]

Word of caution when drilling all the way through a stud bolt. It could likely be bottomed out and you could drill right on through the block or whatever the stud is screwed into. Unlikely senerio but something to think about.

 

[Kernopelli]

Lets modify 2 & 3 a bit......

Learn how to offhand sharpen twist drills and relieve the webs. That goes a long way toward drilling holes in anything, actually using up a dtill bit instead of buying new ones, and, a properly sharpened twist drill with relieved webs usuall drills easily and straight....

Secondly, forget the 'Cobalt' drill bits. Bright HSS is just as tough as M42 Cobalt in most instances except when drilling old high carbon studs that have become hard from thousands of heat/cool cycles.

Get yourself a couple Die Reclaim drills from solid micrograin tungsten carbide.

MA Ford makes them as well as others. They are quite capable of drilling glass, hardened steel, armor plate, heat treated HSS, anything very hard and brittle. They are usually 2 straight flutes (no twist) and the recommended lubricant is water.

I turned the technicians on to them at the shop where it was a nightmare to drill the broken exhaust studs out of a 3406 Cat block. They were going through drills like water. Not any more.

dtill bit????
New tool??:thumbsup:
Must be used for the dtill??

Glass houses.......just saying.

 

[Car Doc]

I was asked for a few tips so I provided my method that works for me so use some or not its you guys prerogative you got what you paid for. :thumbsup:

Also I have a drill doctor and really dont like how it works on small bits so on the size studs I run into me sharpening my bits rather than buy new makes no sense new works good my sharpening ability on small ones is lacking.

btw 5030 can you provide a link I dont know what that is? "Get yourself a couple Die Reclaim drills from solid micrograin tungsten carbide."