Yesterday. Would you buy and EV?

[Doughknob]

We just ordered a Model 3 Long Range.

 

[lman]

4 Years & 60,000 miles on my Tesla Model 3. Never an issue charging.
Usually at home from solar.
Cost to operate and maintain less than $100 per year.

As i've said earlier I'll never buy an ICE again

Andy

Hope you don't need to replace a tractor. Slim pickings on an electric tractor.

 

[judylynn1949]

I'd recommend it. I'm delighted with mine.

with diesel going thru the roof I would like to know more pls

 

[Doughknob]

We already have the solution to fuel prices and cleaning the environment. It's called corn based fuels.
But the government doesn't get enough kickbacks from farmers I guess.

Huh? How does govt not getting kickbacks stop anyone from selling this?

 

[Doughknob]

There's the problem: this entire EV thing is driven by politics. Consumers have not demonstrated their preference for EVs in large numbers, but it's looking more and more as though they will be forced to switch either by outright prohibition of gas and diesel power, unrealistic fuel efficiency mandates, or politically triggered increases in fuel prices.
Electric propulsion of vehicles was not invented yesterday. There are reasons why petroleum has been dominant for so long. It remains the only sensible choice for serious users. An electric tractor might seem cool if you're a hobbyist, but not if you're depending on it to pull a 20-foot chisel plow all day so you can make a living. And can you imagine what kind of batteries and charging apparatus would be needed for a plugin locomotive?
EVs are not ready for prime time and might not ever be. The only way to find out is to make them compete in an unfettered market. But Americans seem content to let the dumbest people on earth dictate our choices, limit our mobility, and plunge the country into poverty. Heaven help us.

SC.……

 

[judylynn1949]

John Deere really goes green with EV tractor concept

John Deere has an EV tractor concept called the Sesam. The rig can do the work of a traditional rig but with no emissions and very little sound.

www.motor1.com

 

[lman]

John Deere really goes green with EV tractor concept

John Deere has an EV tractor concept called the Sesam. The rig can do the work of a traditional rig but with no emissions and very little sound.

www.motor1.com

After 4 hours plug a loooong extension cord in to charge while you're planting corn.

 

[nickfank]

Yes, as soon as a used one is available. I couldn't afford an electric car until they'd been around long enough that I could by used, but now I own 2, and have no regrets.

Maybe a used Soletrac 40 will come my way soon. Since I don't spend more than half the day on a tractor, the Solectrac would work for me.

My guess is that since Mean Green has made a solid commercial electric ZTR mower for a few years now, that'll be my first used equipment purchase.

Proterra & Komatsu are making some electric construction equipment with a drivetrain that is close to what a large scale agricultural tractor will need, so there's progress in that area, but nothing looks ready yet.

 

[nickfank]

Battery degradation is what keeps me away from EV and electric stuff. Along with right to repair. And I'm an electrical engineer and been doing electrical repair for 10+ years


If I could get an ABB drive and baldor motor in a car, with a battery with a good long warranty, I'd be game. And it has to be cheap, under $30k

Regarding DIY repair, (sanctioned or not) you'll find that an amazing array of battery packs just have racks of standard 18650 batteries inside. Buy a cheap spot welder, and repairs are not hard. I've fixed my Makita tool battery packs using 18650 cells scavenged from a wrecked Tesla a friend was parting out. The Makita uses 10, and the Tesla had around 7,000 to donate. Sadly, the motor & controller were sold right away, or I might have an ET already!

For now, I'm discharging and storing the dead lithium cells, waiting for recycling to get to the point where they'll be easy to send back instead of poisoning the landfill with them.

I'm guessing it won't be long before you can get aftermarket battery packs for many EVs.

 

[fatjay]

I only buy ridiculous vehicles. I'm on the waiting list for a Hummer EV for fall 2023. All other EV's are to boring. I'm hoping to also put an 18kw solar array on top of my garage. I'll stay grid connected but have back up batteries. Getting rid of the dependence of big oil or big electric is a good thing in my eyes. If the last 2 years have taught me anything, neither are reliable and there's politicians manipulating prices to take my hard earned money.

 

[CloverKnollFarms]

So, how much does solar, and the associated opportunity cost, cost? I love it when people discount the fact that they could probably average 10% on that $20k each year, which basically pays for my electricity alone, and leaves the $20k capital alone.

Payoff cannot exclude opportunity cost. I just can’t make solar, or an EV pay off… even at $5/gal. Im all for buying things that I want, like my new $80k pole barn… but at least I don’t pretend like it will EVER benefit me financially.

Just say you like gadgets, you don’t have to justify it with poor math.

 

[meackerman]

Ok, 25 years. At that point the panels are at 70% of their rated power, assuming individual panels and controllers haven't failed outright in that time period. Batteries? 10 year life if you're lucky. Point being that individual systems make no sense for the typical homeowner (not in a sunny climate, can't afford to "invest" in a solar array for 20 years--typical ROI period for non-Californicated areas, or just don't want another damn thing to break around the house).

mine are warrantied to be at least 80% after 25 years, but hopefully I'll be long gone from here by then. I don't have batteries, rely on a propane generator instead.
If someone's electrical bill is less than a couple hundred a month, then I would agree solar prolly doesn't make sense. In California, with our stupid electrical rates, solar makes a whole lot of sense for a lot of people, and our stupid government mandated solar for all new homes....making expensive house prices just that much more expensive...and things like that and they won't why people can't afford to buy a house.

a lot of people like having the home batteries, because our electrical grid isn't all that reliable anymore. I've lost power 4-5 times so far this year and its not weather related nor fire related. We'll see if we get rolling blackouts again this summer.

 

[meackerman]

So, how much does solar, and the associated opportunity cost, cost? I love it when people discount the fact that they could probably average 10% on that $20k each year, which basically pays for my electricity alone, and leaves the $20k capital alone.

Payoff cannot exclude opportunity cost. I just can’t make solar, or an EV pay off… even at $5/gal. Im all for buying things that I want, like my new $80k pole barn… but at least I don’t pretend like it will EVER benefit me financially.

Just say you like gadgets, you don’t have to justify it with poor math.

I'm certainly no financial wizard...first winter in our house, $600/month electrical bills. spent ~$20k (minus 30% tax credit) to put solar on my house and the bill dropped to almost nothing. So pay our electrical company $600/month or put solar in...seemed like an easy question to answer.....but maybe we would have been better paying the $600/month and spending that ~$20k on something else. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[ultrarunner]

So, how much does solar, and the associated opportunity cost, cost? I love it when people discount the fact that they could probably average 10% on that $20k each year, which basically pays for my electricity alone, and leaves the $20k capital alone.

Payoff cannot exclude opportunity cost. I just can’t make solar, or an EV pay off… even at $5/gal. Im all for buying things that I want, like my new $80k pole barn… but at least I don’t pretend like it will EVER benefit me financially.

Just say you like gadgets, you don’t have to justify it with poor math.

I wish there was a sure thing paying 10% in the era of 4% 30-year mortgages...

I know some far excede the .5 percent the money markets pay but I have not been one of those.

 

[fatjay]

So, how much does solar, and the associated opportunity cost, cost? I love it when people discount the fact that they could probably average 10% on that $20k each year, which basically pays for my electricity alone, and leaves the $20k capital alone.

Payoff cannot exclude opportunity cost. I just can’t make solar, or an EV pay off… even at $5/gal. Im all for buying things that I want, like my new $80k pole barn… but at least I don’t pretend like it will EVER benefit me financially.

Just say you like gadgets, you don’t have to justify it with poor math.

That's assuming you have the capital to buy solar vs a loan. You can get solar loans nearly interest free, vs a loan to invest in the market is going to come with a high interest rate. If you consume enough electricity, your ROI is roughly 5 years of producing your electric vs paying your bill. Then after that it's all profit.

 

[CloverKnollFarms]

Our HIGHEST electric bills, are three months in the winter, topping $250/mo. And, our house is 100% electric.

The average is $150/mo.

In the past 15 years we have averaged 13% in our investments. Not guaranteed, no… but the funny thing is, people still invest their retirement, with no guarantee, so there must be a reason they do.

We contemplated geothermal, but again, without a tax credit (which had expired)… the payoff took too long.

We don’t borrow money. So, there is always opportunity cost.

I also wonder how effective solar would be in Indiana, when we have weeks of overcast skies, when we need electricity most.

 

[CloverKnollFarms]

I wish there was a sure thing paying 10% in the era of 4% 30-year mortgages...

I know some far excede the .5 percent the money markets pay but I have not been one of those.

I Bonds are paying 9.6%

 

[ultrarunner]

You may not be an expert, but your instincts are correct. "The consensus" is we need to stop driving ICE vehicles to stop global warming, or pollution, or anxiety, or something. Solar, wind and pixie dust will save the day--coal and natural gas are evil--and nuclear power is off the table, based on a different "consensus".

As you implied, solar energy is so diffuse that it will never provide even 20% of the electricity we need, particularly if 100 million EVs need charging--can you say blackout? Someone will screech "But my house has solar panels and we produce 100% of our power!" If it's true (probably not), the screecher lives in Arizona and he spent $60,000 for panels and batteries for $4000 worth of electricity per year. After 20 years his system is worn out and he spent all that money up front (actual cost $108,000 over 20 years). Dumb. Centralized generation is efficient. Individual systems are primarily toys for those with energy guilt or money to burn. Wind power is even less effective--might produce 20% of our needs with 10 million wind turbines. And they look so nice covering the horizon.

Transitioning to EVs will accomplish exactly zero--except diverting money and natural resources away from other pursuits.

The people who claim "consensus" are environmentalists, not engineers. The environmentalists told the politicians, and off we went. Meanwhile, the engineers are shaking their heads, saying "No No NO!".

Consensus is the business of politics. Science, on the contrary, requires only one investigator who happens to be right, which means that he or she has results that are verifiable by reference to the real world. In science consensus is irrelevant. What is relevant is reproducible results. The greatest scientists in history are great precisely because they broke with the consensus. There is no such thing as consensus science. If it’s consensus, it isn’t science. If it’s science, it isn’t consensus. Period.--Michael Crichton

I like what you wrote but it is seldom one size fits all.

A PGE Hydro Engineer lives off grid in Northern CA in what can be described as a parodies... average, creek, pond, etc...

He is fully solar and had one EV.

The cost of his install was much less than PGE to the home and he is a PGE engineer.

He does not have state of the art panels so they were next to nothing as a take off when the original owner upgraded...

As for batteries they are huge commercial 2 volt Telecom batteries picked up for scrap price...

Home is modern and spacious with in floor radiant heating...

Cost of materials maybe 90% discounted plus his free labor and engineering.

I find if amusing a well paid grid engineer chooses to live off grid...

 

[ultrarunner]

I Bonds are paying 9.6%

Yes but limited if I understand?

I don't think I can purchase 40 or 60k in I Bonds...

 

[jyoutz]

Yes but limited if I understand?

I don't think I can purchase 40 or 60k in I Bonds...

I think $10k maximum purchase per person.