Yanmar / Tractor Newbie

[pruntyc]

I think I might dive either way. My head and body will want to stay level, I'll go with them!!

Re: Yanmar / Tractor Newbie


Then what good is a ROPS, if you don't wear the seat belt, it is no good to you. You might as well forget about it and save the money.

 

[Soundguy]

With a rops you must wear a seatbelt or they become dangerous as a pinning or crushing point. In the event of a role there is no time to remove restraintes AND dive off... it's one or the other. That's why you don't see tractors without rops, but WITH seatbelts. Either you use rops/seatbelt.. or none at all and just try to dive for cover.. hopefully on the 'high side'..

Soundguy

 

[RobJ]

I go to a couple woodworking forums. Everyone talks about using guards on a tablesaw. But most admit that it's not on the saw 95 percent of the time. I would bet most people don't always wear the seatbelt but might say they wear it more than they actually do. Getting on and off it will turn into a chore. No I don't wear my seatbelt and my natural instinct is to dive for it. A rops is not an inclosed box to fully protect me. What if you roll your tractor near a ditch or a large rock. The rops coule end up on one side of the rock dangling in the air while you are crushed. Or near the ditch where the rops is in the ditch and the tractor is flat on the bank. No help in either case. Or what if you are mowing near a pond, slip and the tractor hits the water. Some Navy pilots don't make it because they can't get out of an simulated underwater rollover. And they know whats going to happen in training!!

I see the rops as a way to stop the tractor from rolling. It'll hit it's side and stop, not roll over you or roll down the hill. Rops is an interesting topic, but I see many posts of folks tractors doing work with the folded rops down. no saftey there either. I wonder how may would honestly say they wear a seatbelt. I'm out...I don't.

Me? I think I've posted before from when I was a kid on my granddaddys JD's I was very afraid of rolling a tractor so I stayed clear of any trouble. But on the later 4230 if I recall the rops was a 4 point connection to the tractor, not a 2(a box around you). The old 4020's had no rops. Still today it doesn't matter if I'm on my riding mower, l2500, or friends TC90, I'm scared of hills and rolling a tractor.

 

[Soundguy]

A tablesaw with no guards? That's asking for trouble. My TS always has it's fence and top guard, and anit kickback guard, and I always use a push stick. I know -MANY- people missing fingers due to table saws.. I'd like to keep mine thank you. The extra time involved in using a unit with a guard is no big deal.

Same with seatbelts. I wear a seat belt in my truck and on my tractor with a 2-post rops. I agree that a 4 post FOPS structure might be safer.. but it's what I've got.

Your brain is your biggest safety feature. If you are mowing near hillsides, ditches, and water.. be EXTRA carefull.

Still not wearing a seatbelt on a rops equipped machine because you are betting on the fact that when it rolls it will be around a wet ditch with a big rock in it is planning for a situation that might ococur 1% of the ime.. vs 'regular' upsets that might be more likely to occour, in which that rops/seatbelt may save life or limb.

The? 5 seconds it takes to click / unclick a seatbelt is noting compaired to the value of my life.

Soundguy

I go to a couple woodworking forums. Everyone talks about using guards on a tablesaw. But most admit that it's not on the saw 95 percent of the time. I would bet most people don't always wear the seatbelt but might say they wear it more than they actually do. Getting on and off it will turn into a chore. No I don't wear my seatbelt and my natural instinct is to dive for it. A rops is not an inclosed box to fully protect me. What if you roll your tractor near a ditch or a large rock. The rops coule end up on one side of the rock dangling in the air while you are crushed. Or near the ditch where the rops is in the ditch and the tractor is flat on the bank. No help in either case. Or what if you are mowing near a pond, slip and the tractor hits the water. Some Navy pilots don't make it because they can't get out of an simulated underwater rollover. And they know whats going to happen in training!!

I see the rops as a way to stop the tractor from rolling. It'll hit it's side and stop, not roll over you or roll down the hill. Rops is an interesting topic, but I see many posts of folks tractors doing work with the folded rops down. no saftey there either. I wonder how may would honestly say they wear a seatbelt. I'm out...I don't.

Me? I think I've posted before from when I was a kid on my granddaddys JD's I was very afraid of rolling a tractor so I stayed clear of any trouble. But on the later 4230 if I recall the rops was a 4 point connection to the tractor, not a 2(a box around you). The old 4020's had no rops. Still today it doesn't matter if I'm on my riding mower, l2500, or friends TC90, I'm scared of hills and rolling a tractor.

 

[roxynoodle]

Here's another similar question. I was wondering if my wheels could be flipped around and reversed to give my tractor a wider stance? It wouldn't be much wider but I think it would be helpful. Has anyone done that?

I'm going to get the certified ROPS when it is available, which will be soon. Depending on which side I'd have to try to dive to, I could get caught in the loader controls. My tractor is much easier to get on and off from the left than the right. So far the only time I thought I might roll I would have had to try to go right. Yes, it is possible the ROPS will fail, but I'm thinking I'd rather take my chances with that than trying to jump to safety.

Just curious, have any of you seen examples of tractor fatalities on a tractor with a certified ROPS?

 

[Soundguy]

The rops is a good idea. make sure you get a seat upgrade with seatbelts too.

Dishing the wheels ( and swapping side to side ) is a good way to get some width. lots of us do it.

Soundguy

Here's another similar question. I was wondering if my wheels could be flipped around and reversed to give my tractor a wider stance? It wouldn't be much wider but I think it would be helpful. Has anyone done that?

I'm going to get the certified ROPS when it is available, which will be soon. Depending on which side I'd have to try to dive to, I could get caught in the loader controls. My tractor is much easier to get on and off from the left than the right. So far the only time I thought I might roll I would have had to try to go right. Yes, it is possible the ROPS will fail, but I'm thinking I'd rather take my chances with that than trying to jump to safety.

Just curious, have any of you seen examples of tractor fatalities on a tractor with a certified ROPS?

 

[LMTC]

Here's another similar question. I was wondering if my wheels could be flipped around and reversed to give my tractor a wider stance?

Rears only is our advice. Standard tires have DIRECTIONAL tread, meaning it has to face forward, or your best traction will be in reverse. You widen the stance by swapping rears side to side....that keeps the tread facing in the same direction.

We will know the "tentatively firm" available date on the 1510 ROPS about 2 weeks in advance, and will certainly post the availability on our website and begin taking orders at that time.

 

[roxynoodle]

I found several articles that address OSHA certified ROPS and homemade ones. Everything I found said the OSHA ROPS are estimated to be 99% effective in preventing the death of the operator in a rollover. I also found information that said it is possible for a homemade one to be "too rigid", so there is flexibility in the OSHA approved ones. Here is a good article:

http://www.age.psu.edu/extension/factsheets/e/E42.pdf

 

[buppy69]

I read the article about the boy on the International tractor. From the looks of it I don't think he would have survived if it had been a certified ROPS. If it was made to give, in the rear rollover it would have just folded up on him. I can see where it would be helpful in a side roll but not rearward.

Eugene

 

[roxynoodle]

One of the articles I read said in the case of a rear rollover, it only takes about 0.75 seconds before the tractor's center of gravity is over the rear axle, and 1.5 seconds before it is over. Any rollover that happens that fast leaves the operator NO time to react. I don't believe you would be able to bail in that case. I couldn't say if the OSHA ROPS would save your life in that type of accident, but in looking at the time frame given, I am going to have to say have the ROPS on your tractor. Wear your seatbelt.

 

[Soundguy]

I read the article about the boy on the International tractor. From the looks of it I don't think he would have survived if it had been a certified ROPS. If it was made to give, in the rear rollover it would have just folded up on him. I can see where it would be helpful in a side roll but not rearward.

Eugene

I tend to disagree. A rops may be made to 'give'.. but that may just mean flex.. it doesn't have to mean 'pretzle up'. Also.. if you look at many rops designs, they are swept back.. or at least mounted at an angle so that the backflip is stalled before full weight of the tractor is on the rops.. Once the rops can touch, if it is a case of a powered roll over.. like a tractor being used to pull something.. as soon as the rops touch, the rear wheels should start to unload and lose traction.. thus stalling the flip before 100% of the tractor weight is resting on them.. etc.

Still better than nothing in any event..

Soundguy

 

[normde2001]

I tend to disagree. A rops may be made to 'give'.. but that may just mean flex.. it doesn't have to mean 'pretzle up'. Also.. if you look at many rops designs, they are swept back.. or at least mounted at an angle so that the backflip is stalled before full weight of the tractor is on the rops.. Once the rops can touch, if it is a case of a powered roll over.. like a tractor being used to pull something.. as soon as the rops touch, the rear wheels should start to unload and lose traction.. thus stalling the flip before 100% of the tractor weight is resting on them.. etc.

Still better than nothing in any event..

Soundguy

I have never driven a HST tractor, ( I guess they got no clutch), so how can you stop a back-flip rollover on a HST the way you would on a geardrive tractor by stabbing the clutch, as I have had to do on several occasions?

 

[Soundguy]

Some hst do have clutches.. in any event.. I'd guess if you let up off the treadle, or forward pedal that the tractor movement would stop.. etc..( hitting reverse pedal?)

Soundguy

 

[pruntyc]

As most of you know, I bought a John Deere, HST. The moment I let off of the pedal it stops, just like I had hit the brake. Now if they all work that way I wouldn't know, but mine does. And yes I do miss my Yanmar, even if this one is made by Yanmar. I was kind of wanting a 2210, but my wife thought at my age, I should get a new tractor, so I wouldn't need to work on it much.

 

[dieselsmoke1]

IMO the young man from Iowa was killed due to misuse of the equipment....period. Tragic but it's a fact.

Regarding rear roll overs, I'd speculate it's extremely unlikely unless the operator misuses the equipment, ie. attempts to pull a load from a drawbar mounted to the lift arms in the raised position for example, chains a log to the tire to "walk" out of the mud, or an even riskier trick is to hook the tow chain to the linkage bar attachment point on the tractor. Have seen this done, no rollover but trashed the draft system.

If the load is properly hitched to a belly bar, or at least hooked to a drawbar that is stabilized below the axle's center of gravity, going to be dang near impossible to tip a tractor over backwards by pulling a load.

Other than those that would try to drive vertically up a 60 degree slope or pull a 15 ton trailer downhill with a 30 hp tractor or hitch improperly as described above or use some other creative method to gain leverage, there's probably more chance of being struck by lightning while sleeping than a rear rollover.

Moral here...hitch to your load correctly and the odds of a rear rollover reduce dramatically.

DISCLAIMER: THIS IS ONLY MY OPINION! POST ONLY INTENDED TO EDCUCATE!

 

[LMTC]

General comment, NOT directed to any individual or specific post. It seems to be a natural human tendency to want to ascribe reasons to a disaster so we can then say those reasons don't enter into our situation, thus we are safe. Sometimes there is blatant stupidity involved. Often there is operator error involved. Anyone here NEVER made an error operating machinery? I would agree that some are less in danger than others based on behaviors and skill levels. That doesn't mean it is not prudent to take what precautions can be taken. A ROPS is one such precaution.

 

[Soundguy]

I think we look for reasons for problems so that we can assess risk in future situations.. I.e. learning from our mistakes.

That's whey when a plane crashes and the NTSA crawl all over it and find out that it was a weak 'thingamajig'.. then they can go inspect other planes for that weak 'thingamajig' and hopefully use that data to save lives.

To make a blanket statement that the reason we try to determine the reason for a problem is just so we can self-deny it is.. well.. I think a very myopic viewpoint. While it may be true in some percentage of the pupulation.. i do not think it is indicitive of the majority.

Soundguy

General comment, NOT directed to any individual or specific post. It seems to be a natural human tendency to want to ascribe reasons to a disaster so we can then say those reasons don't enter into our situation, thus we are safe. Sometimes there is blatant stupidity involved. Often there is operator error involved. Anyone here NEVER made an error operating machinery? I would agree that some are less in danger than others based on behaviors and skill levels. That doesn't mean it is not prudent to take what precautions can be taken. A ROPS is one such precaution.

 

[normde2001]

"Regarding rear roll overs, I'd speculate it's extremely unlikely unless the operator misuses the equipment, ie. attempts to pull a load from a drawbar mounted to the lift arms in the raised position for example, chains a log to the tire to "walk" out of the mud, or an even riskier trick is to hook the tow chain to the linkage bar attachment point on the tractor. Have seen this done, no rollover but trashed the draft system."

Not necessarily, anything that stops the tractor when you have good traction will do it, such as catching your boxblade on an immovable root, and lifting the frontend. It's happened to me several times.

 

[LMTC]

To make a blanket statement that the reason we try to determine the reason for a problem is just so we can self-deny it is.. well.. I think a very myopic viewpoint. While it may be true in some percentage of the pupulation.. i do not think it is indicitive of the majority.

Soundguy

Chris, please re-read my post. I agree with the first part of your post, but not the latter. I did not say that "the reason we try to determine the reason for a problem is just so we can self-deny it is" (your post). I said "It seems to be a natural human tendency to want to ascribe reasons to a disaster so we can then say those reasons don't enter into our situation" (my post). Nowhere did I try to say that the purpose of denial is THE reason, solely and singularly, nor did I say it is JUST so we can self-deny. Nor do I think that. However, I do think those are factors, and that there is a definite tendency on the part of many people to think that way...it's the "it couldn't happen to me syndrome." My statement was carefully and specifically worded so as NOT to be a blanket. Perhaps it would have been more clear if I had said "It seems to be a natural human tendency to want to ascribe reasons to a disaster so we can then say THAT SOME OF those reasons don't enter into our situation, thus we are safe". Even on re-reading it, I don't think it proposes a myopic viewpoint.

 

[roxynoodle]

Yeah, I've been asking a lot of experienced tractor operators if they have ever come close to a rear rollover and it may be more common than I would have thought. Sure, some people are doing things that are not a good idea. But, several people have told me they had a tractor "stand up" a couple of times for reasons like Norm described. No one goes through life error free. Experience helps but does not make you immune. I know I need operating experience but I'm trying to learn everything about safety that I can so that hopefully I can avoid at least some mistakes. Someone posted on the safety forum a little while back about his father in law falling into the auger of a post hole digger. He was 70 years old, had farmed and used tractors all his life, and yet he got off the tractor and tripped, causing the accident. Of course he should not have gotten off the tractor with the PTO running. But, I bet he had dug dozens of post holes in his life and figured he would be ok. This might be a case where experience allows us to do careless things. Last year I put new siding on my house. I was terrified of falling off a ladder. I always made sure it was steady and I went up and down slowly. My neighbor who does construction came over to help me get housewrap on the second story and he was standing on one foot leaning way out and the ladder was going sideways. He would also move the ladder by jumping it while he was on it. Stupidity? I thought so! But he was someone who had done this numerous times and hadn't had an accident. Of course some of us are riskier than others too. I guess my point is everyone knows experience makes a big difference, but just because you have a lot of experience and haven't had an accident, practice good safety anyways. Accidents can happen to anyone at anytime. If we knew they were coming we wouldn't be doing whatever caused them!