Comparison Yanamar LX4900 HST vs Kioti Dk45se HST

[hnicols]

You have all helped me a lot on my prior post, keeping me from comparing some apples and oranges. I have better focused on two comparable tractors. Like them both. Now I need some help on pricing and feature value between the two. Sorry for the long post but wanted to provide the info so you don't have to look for it. I know the format is a bit off -- just remember Yanmar comes first and then Kioti.

Appears the Yanmar will be about 2k less than Kioti which will come in at about $34,500. Specs seem close to a match to me (one better on some and vice versa). See below. Kioti has the 4 additional features noted at bottom though I do not know their real importance (PTO float will self adjust if you start to over dig with a grader for example, loader level indicator seems like a nice feature but I am new to tractoring so what do I know (and I did not see anything in the after market that anyone sells, although could make my own if I buy Yanmar), the sight ball gives you a heads up if your losing fluid in the front axle, and the choice between manual and auto PTO shut offf gives you a choice as to whether you shut off l when you lift the PTO. Yanmar is Turbo so likely better fuel economy and seems a bit quieter but do not know if turbo is good or bad for repairs etc.

So what do you think? Is Kioti price for tbl at about 34,500 fair? Which tractor would you all recommend and why? I like the four added features of the Kioti but not sure what they are worth practically. And $2000 in difference on price could really matter to me. Yanmar is still prettier and I like the joy stick better. But both look like great tractors; both have good dealers; Yanmar about 45 minutes closer. Thanks again!


Yanmar / Kioti



Gross HP 48.5 / 45
PTO HP 35 / 36
Turbo yes / no


3pt lift at 24" 2790 / 2493

wheelbase 74.8 / 74
width 69.5 / 63.9
hydro pump capacity 15.2 / 16.8
weight w/rops 3618 / 3924

loader
max lift height to pivot 113 / 107.8
breakout at pivot 3810 / 3727
lift capacity pivot pin 2493 / 2761

backhoe
dig depth 2ft flat bttm 102 / 94.4
reach from cntr line swing 136 / 136.1
loading height at 60degree 87 / 80.3
weight less bucket 1350 / 1102
dipstick digging force 2435 / 2205
bucket digging force 3730 / 3748

pto float n / y
bucket level indicator n / y
tranny sight ball n / y
auto/manual pto shut off n / y

 

[GManBart]

$34,500 for the DK with FEL and BH seems a bit high to me. I'd expect more like $31K or so....$25K for the tractor with FEL, and another $8 for the BH.

Does the Yanmar come with any rear remotes standard? The Kioti has one standard, but 2 is really handy....figure ballpark $1K per remote added. I know the Yanmar doesn't have cruise control standard (Kioti does), but that isn't a huge issue for a lot of people.

Yanmar makes outstanding engines, but I don't want a turbo unless it's absolutely necessary (talking tractors, not sports cars). They will eventually cost you money to fix, it's just a matter of when, and they ultimately cause more wear on other parts because they raise pressures, and temperatures (cylinder head temps, etc). Granted, the engines are built with that in mind, but there is no free lunch, and eventually it will lead to an expensive repair for somebody.

Oh, one other thing....the 3pt control on the back of the Kioti is a huge help when hooking up implements. That alone almost had me buying a DK45SE Hydro.

 

[DK35vince]

Backhoes seem to be running around $1000 per digging foot.
So I am guessing these backhoes will add in the $8- 8500 area.

 

[murphy1244]

Does the Yanmar have adjustable stabilizers and Links? Remote 3 point control.?

 

[DK35vince]

I think you now have it narrowed down to your personal preference between machines.
Both nice machines with very close specs.

As far as a turbo on a diesel engine. That would not sway me away any.
I have been running and/or working around turbo diesel engines nearly every day for 20-30 years.
Very reliable. We very rarely see a turbo failure. Turbo diesels, from my experience last every bit as long as the non turbos do.

 

[GManBart]

Backhoes seem to be running around $1000 per digging foot.
So I am guessing these backhoes will add in the $8- 8500 area.

You're right, I was thinking of the smaller hoes....edited my reply.

 

[engine29]

While Yanmar is known for it's engines and for building Deere's compacts for years, I question their longevity and strength on their own. They have never really excelled by themselves in the US and the Yanmar/Cub thing didn't last a real long time. As far as coming back again, I would wonder how strong they will be and how strong their dealer network will be.
Kioti is presently enjoying a lot of growth in the US and they do offer a very good tractor, especially the DK series. Even for the extra money, I would go w/ the Kioti. They will be around for the long term.

 

[Poopdeck Pappy]

I don't know anything about the Yanmar, so I won't give you a recommendation. But I will say a few things.

First, I have the Kioti DK50SE HST Cab and I'm very happy with it.

Secondly, the auto/manual PTO is useless to me. I suppose there might be some legitimate uses for it. But the last thing I want is the PTO shutting off automatically and then automatically re-engaging when my motor is spinning at over 2,000 RPM. Seems like a good way to thrash a PTO.

The rear 3 point lift lever on the Kioti is very handy.

The bucket level indicator is handy. If you get the Kioti, you will want to loctite the tube threads on the housing that the indicator rod runs through. Do that before using your tractor. They seem to be assembled only finger tight and will come unscrewed and pretzel up.

 

[hnicols]

Does the Yanmar have adjustable stabilizers and Links? Remote 3 point control.?

the 3 point hitch has position control at the seat and telescoping arms.

 

[hnicols]

$34,500 for the DK with FEL and BH seems a bit high to me. I'd expect more like $31K or so....$25K for the tractor with FEL, and another $8 for the BH.

Does the Yanmar come with any rear remotes standard? The Kioti has one standard, but 2 is really handy....figure ballpark $1K per remote added. .

Help me, I am a newbee..what do I use two for? Seems I have one installed for the backhoe, will be adding a line to the loader so i can use a grapple. but why else two?

 

[k0ua]

You need to go back and give the yanmar price to the Kioti dealer and ask for that 2000 off.. He is priced way high to begin with, and if you get it, buy the Kioti.

 

[TomSeller]

I don't have knowledge of either. So I will toss in an unqualified vote for the underdog... Yanmar.

 

[hnicols]

sounds like a plan, thanks -- and if i then end up with the Yanmar i can blame kioti (the Yanmar sure is pretty). On a side note, what do you think of the wicked grapple? And why did you chose that size?

 

[TomSeller]

I would never buy a wicked grapple unless I had a small tractor for which they are fine. The 30" opening is way too small for my needs.

 

[GManBart]

Help me, I am a newbee..what do I use two for? Seems I have one installed for the backhoe, will be adding a line to the loader so i can use a grapple. but why else two?

Lots of people like them for having a hydraulic top link, and hydraulic tilt (raises/lowers one lift arm)....commonly called top and tilt or top N tilt, etc. It doesn't sound like much, but they can really make life easier for some jobs.

Similarly, if you ever buy a 3pt snow thrower, you can control both the chute angle, and deflector shield with hydraulic remotes....rear forward pull snow throwers sometimes even have a small scrape blade that can be run on a remote as well.

If you can think of it, somebody has found a way to run it off those rear remotes!

 

[Katahdin]

I discovered the Yanmar line while going to check out Kiotis. The dealer, who was selling both, actually steered me over to the Yanmar. The dealer told me he was having trouble getting Kioti tractors and there seemed to be a lot of drama of Kioti dealers being dropped, at least in my area of the country. The regional Yanmar rep was also onsite, so maybe that also had something to do with it.

I test drove both the DK45 and Yanmar LX4900 while I was at the dealer. The Yanmar seemed more comfortable and easier to maneuver. I had never heard of Yanmar until that point, but the more I dug into their 100 year history, and their relationship with building tractors for John Deere, the more I became interested in them.

As for the Cub Cadet thing, selling Kioti built tractors didn't work out for Bob Cat. And before Cub Cadet was selling Yanmars, they were selling Kiotis. I guess Kioti didn't work out with Cub Cadet either. I don't think it really matters. Yanmar has stood behind the tractors they built for Cub Cadet and still warranty and support them. Note, the LX4900 was never a Cub Cadet branded tractor, it was only released under the Yanmar name and will only have Yanmar part and serial numbers.

Don't be fooled by the weight differences of the tractor. The Yanmar is a stout machine and there are no aluminum parts that I can find. The transmission and axle housings all attract a magnet. It does save some weight with its polymer hood and fenders, so you know more of its weight is where it counts, in its frame a drivetrain components.

Yes, expect to pay about $1100-$1200 for the dual-rear-remote kit. Soon I will be writing up the install of this kit on my LX tractor.

The Yanmar LX has a loader level indicator. It's on the inside of the right loader arm.

Re fluids, sight balls, etc. My Yanmar LX hasn't leaked a drop of gear, engine, or hydraulic oil so far in almost 150 operating hours. The front axle has a dip stick that threads out. The engine and gear oils are checked on the "cold side" of the tractor away from any hot exhaust parts. The hydraulic/transmission fluid is checked by a dipstick in the rear. I performed the "free" 50hr oil and hydraulicfluid and filters myself, it was pretty easy. You'll want a bucket pump for the hydraulic fluid. Quarts of oil stand up by themselves on the oil-fill port which is nice if you're trying to get every last drop of oil out of the quart container.

I do believe, with its direct-injection, the Yanmar engines are more fuel efficient than the Kiotis. And I've said before, the Kioti engine has a bore and stroke suspiciously identical to the Kubota engine. That tells me some engineer was doing more copying than innovating. With the Yanmar engines, however, you do see a little more PTO hp loss, I'm not exactly sure why that is, perhaps it has to do with the fact the Yanmar engine is a more square/power stroke design, so its putting out less horsepower at PTO speed while the engine is actually capable of higher rpm speed than the Kubota/Kioti engine. Or perhaps Yanmar is just being more honest about its PTO horsepower. In any event, my LX4500 can run a 6 foot bush hog just fine, on steep hills, so I'm happy.

I'm not going to try to address turbo/vs non turbo, but if you decided non-turbo you could always get the LX4500 model.

Look into the synchro-throttle feature. I don't think the Kioti has this. With the synchro-throttle you can control the engine speed with the foot pedals, like a car.

You may be interested to know that the Yanmar LX backhoe is actually made here in the USA by Amerequip in Wisconsin. Here's a link to a picture of the loader on their production floor:
http://www.amerequip.com/assets/images/photos/galleries/production/amerequip-collection-14.jpg

That's all I have for now. Hope that helps!

 

[TomSeller]

I do believe, with its direct-injection, the Yanmar engines are more fuel efficient than the Kiotis. And I've said before, the Kioti engine has a bore and stroke suspiciously identical to the Kubota engine. That tells me some engineer was doing more copying than innovating.

Yanmar has been making diesel engines for a LONG time, since 1933. I even have one of their 6 hp air cooled diesel engines. They are very good.

http://us.yanmar.com/products/industrial-engines/

 

[k0ua]

sounds like a plan, thanks -- and if i then end up with the Yanmar i can blame kioti (the Yanmar sure is pretty). On a side note, what do you think of the wicked grapple? And why did you chose that size?

I like it, I did not need a larger one, as my loader is only rated for 1420 lbs. It is made from good steel and is tough but lightweight. Every extra pound you put in a grapple, is a pound of materiel you cannot lift.

Yes the opening is only 30 inches, but when loading brush, just go down on it with the grapple dumped down so you squash the load of brush down before you clamp it. It works well, you can get a load of brush you cannot see around.

As for loading rocks, anything over 30 inches around, is more rock than I can lift anyway. I also like the fact the tines come together precisely. I can pick up small sticks, or little rocks with it. I believe I could pick up a pencil with it, If I feathered the hydraulic cylinder to not crush it. Everyone has different needs, and there is no one perfect grapple, just like there is no one perfect tractor. A man should have 2 or 3 different styles of grapples, just like he should have at a minimum 3 or 4 different tractors.

People that do not own guns can never understand why a person would own a dozen or more different guns, but I understand

 

[k0ua]

The good news is, no matter which tractor you choose, you are going to get a good tractor that will server you well.

 

[MtnViewRanch]

Help me, I am a newbee..what do I use two for? Seems I have one installed for the backhoe, will be adding a line to the loader so i can use a grapple. but why else two?

They can be invaluable to control top & tilt cylinders if you will be doing much grading of about any kind.