Worried about HP..

[DatacomGuy]

Still shopping for my first tractor. Need FEL, will use PTO very little (for now, i suppose? No plans for it now). General purpose usage with the FEL and some minor grading.

I notice a lot of tractors in my price range (under 10K) are the compact and sub-compact tractors (a lot with belly mowers) with 20-25hp. Is this enough to accomplish loader tasks? I look at my Cub Cadet mower at 22hp (or is 24hp) and wonder how a larger tractor with a loaded FEL with the same HP would accomplish much more. I understand its geared differently, diesel vs gas, more torque.(perhaps i answered my question).. however..

Looking for input!

Example: TractorHouse.com | 28 KUBOTA BX266 For Sale

 

[jeff9366]

I have 5 acres, mostly wooded.

I notice tractors in my price range (under 10K) are compact and sub-compact tractors (a lot with belly mowers) with 20-25hp. Is this enough to accomplish loader tasks?


It depends if 700 pounds of FEL lift capacity suits your needs.

You will need a counterbalance weight of 300 to 400 pounds mounted on the Three Point Hitch in order to lift ~~700 pounds with the FEL. Without counterbalance your max FEL lift will be around 350 pounds, before rear wheels lift off the ground.

You will be able to back drag (smooth) using the FEL bucket and operating tractor in reverse. Smoothing has mostly to do with tractor weight.

BX series has only 9" of ground clearance. Fine for most things, not really enough for woods work where you have to traverse holes in the ground, downed limbs and tree trunks.

BX has a two-range HST transmission. What about Cub Cadet?

Probably $1,000 commercial freight from PA to GA unless you devote two days to trailer it yourself.

 

[DatacomGuy]

I have 5 acres, mostly wooded.

I notice tractors in my price range (under 10K) are compact and sub-compact tractors (a lot with belly mowers) with 20-25hp. Is this enough to accomplish loader tasks?


It depends if 700 pounds of FEL lift capacity suits your needs.

You will need a counterbalance weight of 300 to 400 pounds mounted on the Three Point Hitch in order to lift ~~700 pounds with the FEL. Without counterbalance your max FEL lift will be around 350 pounds, before rear wheels lift off the ground.

You will be able to back drag (smooth) using the FEL bucket and operating tractor in reverse. Smoothing has mostly to do with tractor weight.

BX series has only 9" of ground clearance. Fine for most things, not really enough for woods work when you have to traverse downed limbs and tree trunks.

Probably $1,000 commercial freight from PA to GA unless you will take two days to trailer it yourself.

Good call - I didn't think of ground clearance.. I'm assuming the same would apply to the 2305, the Kioti CS's, etc.. I need to keep digging. I'd prefer to have a bit more HP and weight if possible.

I can do the drive, thats no problem.

 

[jeff9366]

BX has a two-range HST transmission. What about Cub Cadet?

Ground clearance can be researched on TractorData.com for previously owned tractors.

TractorData.com - information on all makes and models of tractors



MEASURE TWICE, CUT ONCE.

 

[4570Man]

Weight is what gets the work done. A L2501 is way more capable than a BX. A no longer produced ck25 would outperform both of them. You could engine swap them for a supercharged 454 and it wouldn't lift any more.

 

[Tractorable]

Horsepower has little to do with lifting capacity. The hydraulic cylinders will get the same amount of fluid whether they're being operated by 10hp or 100hp. As others have said, weight is what determines the amount of work you can do.

An 25hp L2501 will drag a 25hp lawn mower around the yard like it's a tinker toy, even though they have the same horsepower.

 

[jeff9366]

Good call - I didn't think of ground clearance.. I need to keep digging. I'd prefer to have a bit more HP and weight if possible.

Kubota BX series is around 1,700 pounds, bare tractor.

The Kubota L2501, which others recommend, is around 2,700 pounds, bare tractor. L2501 is a new Kubota model so few will be for sale @ $10,000.

It takes a 50% increase in tractor weight before weight increase becomes discernible in tractor performance. Seek a tractor with 2,500 to 2,700 pounds of bare weight. There are lots of used "L" series Kubota tractors with this bare tractor weight. Tractors with this weight will have 12" to 14" ground clearance and usually a three-range HST transmission.

Every tractor manufacturer produces tractors of 2,500 to 3,000 pounds.

 

[radioman]

i think you looking at this wrong. you are so focused on your experience with a briggs and stratton gas motors or kohler or what have you and trying to compare this with the diesel hydraulically powered transmissions etc.
first off- nothing compares to diesel engine like the box store gas motors does.NOTHING. when you are mowing grass with a gas powered riding tractor that is mostly driven by belt directly, in tall grass you will feel the effects everytime you hit a thick or really tall parts of grasses. using a BX, it powers thru lie its almost nothing even with way less HP.

The FEL will only lift so much for its size, but i have lifted so many things with the BX, even tho its the smallest one on the market with FEL i am still impressed for what it can do. now -- you are not going to be able to lift the front end up of a car but you can lift your old riding mower no problem. you can move 12 bags of 80lb concrete all at once - but you will have a hard time with a wheelbarrow with only 3. do you want to move round hay around? a BX is not gonna cut it. you can push a round bale no problem but to lift and stack...... its just too little. just get a larger tractor.

The question is what do you plan on doing with the tractor in general ? I can guarantee you that once you get a sub compact - you will find uses for it you never imagined and wondered how you lived without one before.

 

[Egon]

An example, JD 4200 & 420 loader. Twenty six HP.
[video]http://www.tractordata.com/farm-tractors/001/8/0/1809-john-deere-4200-attachments.html[/video]

 

[DatacomGuy]

AWESOME input, thanks guys. I'll keep researching. I dont think the subcompacts will cut it for me.. I think initially they would, but eventually i'd regret going that small.

 

[DatacomGuy]

One more silly question. What is considered "low hours" and what is considered "high hours"? Obviously usage, age etc coming in to play.. but is there a rule of thumb?

 

[prichard]

Plenty of used tractors have 1000 or less hours on them. I consider that low hours.

I wouldn't look in PA. There are plenty of decent used tractors right here in north Georgia. If you're anywhere near one of the mason tractor dealers give them a call. They seem to want to get their money back or of trades rather than making huge profits inn them. I've seen a lot of decent used stuff on Craigslist lately as well.

 

[motownbrowne]

One more silly question. What is considered "low hours" and what is considered "high hours"? Obviously usage, age etc coming in to play.. but is there a rule of thumb?

I wouldn't worry at all about 1500 hours, as long as maintenance has been completed in a relatively timely manner. At the very least, I'd want to know that hydraulic oil had been changed at least once, and motor oil annually. Filters too, of course. Then I'd want to look pretty hard at the loader. Tractors are designed primarily to do work with the back end. The big rear tires, heavier, non-steering axle, and weight distribution are evidence of that. Loaders are great, but in the wrong hands, they can get mangled relatively easily, and they can do a lot of damage to the tractor. Check for pin condition, slop, etc. Check for leaking front axle seals, and loose steering. Lots of loader use, especially without adequate rear ballast will take a toll on a tractor. That'd be a bigger concern for me than hours.

 

[jeff9366]

One more silly question. What is considered "low hours" and what is considered "high hours"? Obviously usage, age etc coming in to play.. but is there a rule of thumb?

ONE owner is generally more important than engine hours. First owner generally takes good care of the tractor. Second owner less so. By third owner tractor gets banged around and preventative maintenance is a random event at best.

Tractor reliability is primarily related to the prudence and experience of the tractor operator(s).

 

[/pine]

Still shopping for my first tractor. Need FEL, will use PTO very little (for now, i suppose? No plans for it now). General purpose usage with the FEL and some minor grading.

I notice a lot of tractors in my price range (under 10K) are the compact and sub-compact tractors (a lot with belly mowers) with 20-25hp. Is this enough to accomplish loader tasks? I look at my Cub Cadet mower at 22hp (or is 24hp) and wonder how a larger tractor with a loaded FEL with the same HP would accomplish much more. I understand its geared differently, diesel vs gas, more torque.(perhaps i answered my question).. however..

Looking for input!

Example: TractorHouse.com | 28 KUBOTA BX266 For Sale

There is a contradiction in terms between "compact and sub-compact tractors" and "accomplish much more"...I have no idea what your needs will be but the first thing I realized about compact tractors is what they all lack...and that is overall weight (which converts to traction)...and in many tasks (especially grading etc.) traction is more important than horse power...
FWIW...I have a B1700/loaded rears and will have the wheels spinning before I need more HP.

 

[DieselBound]

I've got a Kubota B7800 with ballasted rear tires. I can lift upwards of 700 lbs and do so without the rears coming up. Base tractor weight, though w/o loader, is like 1,900 lbs. I CAN stall out the tractor with its box blade (heck, I can stall out my NX55100 with a box blade! [a 1,200 lb box blade!]). I'd say that it's not only about weight, it's also about gearing! But, with tractors gearing is pretty much taken care of.

I bought my B7800 used with 748 hours on it. I am the second owner. I've worked the snot out of it- now have close to 1,800 hours. The original owner wore out the bucket within 2 year's time. I'd have to say that it's a toss-up as to which owner has been harder on this tractor: I can say that it's been pretty well maintained since I've owned it- ALL my equipment repairs/mods/maintenance is logged.

I've got my B7800 into very tight spaces. I've moved/pushed around some very heavy things. With 1,800 hours it can still do everything it did when I first bought it. Small framed, yes, weak, no. But, for sure, it's a low end tractor. L series are great. I wouldn't discount ANY used, reasonably well maintained Kubota.

 

[DatacomGuy]

It is rude not to reply to all questions from your respondents.

BX has a two-range HST transmission. What about Cub Cadet?

]

Sorry, I must have missed this question? Are you speaking of the cub cadet that I own now? It's a HST.. Not sure about two-range, I doubt it.

 

[DatacomGuy]

Thank you all for the input!

I'm going to pause for now and research more. Definitely not ready to make any purchases it looks like.

I'll focus on weight for sure.

 

[Kentuckyfarmer]

AWESOME input, thanks guys. I'll keep researching. I dont think the subcompacts will cut it for me.. I think initially they would, but eventually i'd regret going that small.

I have a BX and agree with the above post about them. Very good little machines. Also have a bigger tractor and use it mostly for field work and feeding livestock round bales. But all in all I use that BX lots more just doing everyday things. Never considered getting rid of it when I got a bigger tractor. It's just a handy machine.

 

[ArmyDoc]

If you multiply hours by 60 you get roughly car miles (60 miles per hour...) Not a perfect comparison, but it works. Just realize you are talking about a diesel truck, not a passenger car. 120,000 miles is juts getting a diesel broken in. So 1000 - 2000 hours is like 60-120,000 miles on a truck.