Need advice - 15-20HP

[3inthedirt]

Yup

Bath tomorrow!

 

[Shawn T. W.]

Yup

Bath tomorrow!

Hopefully not a swim?

 

[rScotty]

Fixed it for ya!

I was born in Vermont, got tired of the cold after 40+ years, moved to Arizona for 13 years, didn't care for the summer heat or the 10 months of brown dead looking grass ... I guess I'm what's is refered to as a "half-back" ... As in I moved half way back, Missouri has a bit more humidity than both places, and it does drop below zero for a day or two each year, but we don't usually get snow more than once a year that lasts more than a day or two ...

One thing to remember to do on Mario is to change out the front axle fluid way before the book calls for, I'd recommend at the 50 hour service, there is no filter up there! I did mine earlier than the book, but it had 244 hours on it and it looked horrible! My dealer saw the picture and said it was "normal"! (I don't recall what the book calls for, but I change it now with every oil change, and it's clear!)

I did end up having the front seals changed on mine before the two year warranty was up, that's when I started learning about how much rear ballast I really should have, from reading forums!

View attachment 5302006

Hmmm....front axle seals at two years.... and that old oil looks like 90 wt gear lube with some water or condensate mixed in with it.
Putting those two events together makes me wonder if the front axle vent is plugged - or missing altogether.

 

[tacticalturnip]

Hmmm....front axle seals at two years.... and that old oil looks like 90 wt gear lube with some water or condensate mixed in with it.
Putting those two events together makes me wonder if the front axle vent is plugged - or missing altogether.

The vast majority of subcompact and compact tractors do not have vented front axles; a fellow makes them for Deere tractors.

I just ordered one for my Kioti; I had to find my thread size, and match one up, but I found one.

 

[rScotty]

The vast majority of subcompact and compact tractors do not have vented front axles; a fellow makes them for Deere tractors.

I just ordered one for my Kioti; I had to find my thread size, and match one up, but I found one.

Well, a closed system like that does see enough heat & cold to need venting. Forgetting to provide that vent had to be a manufacturing oversight - of the sort where one company does it wrong and everyone else simply copies them. Good on you for seeing the problem and doing something about it.

One of our old tractors (Yanmar) didn't have a front axle vent and the other (Kubota) does. Our JD does.

On the one that wasn't vented , I threaded the front axle filler cap for an 1/8" hose barb and ran rubber tubing up a few feet next to the radiator. That and a zip tie is all it takes. I usually crimp a piece of wire in the end of the tube to keep it open and the mud wasps out. Otherwise those critters do love to plug things up.

Do the same for the rear axle housing vent - which is often located under the tractor seat.

Happy tractoring,
rScotty

 

[tacticalturnip]

I was fortunate enough to learn from others on GreenTractorTalk; when Otis came out with the axle vents for small tractors I knew I needed to save my Kioti some trouble.

 

[3inthedirt]

The vast majority of subcompact and compact tractors do not have vented front axles; a fellow makes them for Deere tractors.

I just ordered one for my Kioti; I had to find my thread size, and match one up, but I found one.

Here we go again! This is starting to sound like the many "findings" that I uncovered with other equipment. I've been through this more times than I can count on with dirt bikes and atvs. I've spent tens of thousands on them over the years. You buy a machine (close to ten between mine and the kid's) thinking that it is ready to go for a lifetime from a well established and recognized brand only to find out that it needs $1,000 worth of fixin'. After 6 hours of use, we have a Sentinel filter guard and an axle vent (presumably, I haven't checked yet) upgrade.

What do folks do when they don't have the money or mechanical ability to resolve this stuff????

 

[Shawn T. W.]

Hmmm....front axle seals at two years.... and that old oil looks like 90 wt gear lube with some water or condensate mixed in with it.
Putting those two events together makes me wonder if the front axle vent is plugged - or missing altogether.

No vent on the front axle ...

Here it is 7 months and 85 hours of use later ... Permatran hydraulic fluid that manufacturers manual recommended, so I presumed what was put in at the factory ... Dealer saw first picture of first change and said it looked "normal" ...

My guess on the front seal leaking issue was my not understanding the need for proper rear ballast ...

 

[3inthedirt]

I'm with you on the seals. Not fully trusting any dealer when they say something is normal. Normal can mean that it is "as engineered" and not necessarily as it should have been engineered. He has to properly support his product in the manufacturer's eyes.

Just venting......

 

[Shawn T. W.]

Yes, I agree!

And "normal" may also mean common, as they all are that dirty!

To be fair, the majority of SCUT'S probably don't get worked as hard as mine has, nor do they accumulate as many hours ... I have 765+ hours in 4 years ... Lots won't see that many hours in there lifetime!

So the few that are worked hard and long are a small majority and when they do just sneak in prior to warranty expiration, (like mine) it's easier and cheaper for corporate to fix those, instead of making them ALL not have that weakness!

I'm thinking that the vent PLUGS on top of each front axle knuckle are the same size as what the engine block coolant drain is, could actually be metric, but I used 1/4" npt brass fittings and they worked fine ... So I'm gonna look for a 1/4" npt brass with a hose barb on the other side, and a couple feet of appropriate hose ...

The factory "vents" are just plugs that need to be removed when re-filling the axle so it will flow across to both knuckles, as the plastic fill cap is only on one side, and up higher ...

 

[3inthedirt]

Gonna do the same.

I don’t buy junk, Chinese stuff, to save money and do upgrades. I do expect lead manufacturers to do it right. How else do they establish brand loyalty?

Guess I should been around 30 years earlier when stuff ran forever.

 

[Shawn T. W.]

I agree!

There are a few things that I'm disappointed in how AGCO/Massey chose to do things ... 2 are BH related ... But once you drain the coolant at/before the 2 year interval, you gonna know why I dislike there stupid drain plug!

It makes a MESS and almost impossible to avoid it ... As you can see I caught some of the fluid when it first gushed out like a geyser, but then it slowed down and couldn't reach the pan outside of the frame rail ... Maybe two pans could catch most of it ... ?

But it just kinda dribbles down over the front axle!

After a bunch of trial and error ... I put in a radiator drain petcock with a few extra fittings to get it far enough away from the block to be able to open, and also get a hose on it! (And still get the oil filter off!)

For brushy off-road work, they really need a skid plate under it to protect the little transmission cooling fan! In a perfect world they would have put in an actual hydraulic cooler with a fan on that, instead of just blowing air over the transmission! (The off white fan blades in the upper right!)

 

[3inthedirt]

Don't buy a Ram truck then. Trying to get to a tiny oil flter for 6.5 qts. capacity, above the steering rack and barely removable from everything from sway bars to frame.

I want my '53 Olds back. Next vehicle will be from the 60's or 70's (GMs last good engine/tranny combo was in '79). I'll pay for the gas.

 

[Shawn T. W.]

Ha HA!

Too late! But ... Yeah, a stupid design!

But ... Overall I'm quite happy with both the RAM & Massey Ferguson ... Seems most everything these days have some quirky issues that we gotta deal with!

 

[rScotty]

Here we go again! This is starting to sound like the many "findings" that I uncovered with other equipment. I've been through this more times than I can count on with dirt bikes and atvs. I've spent tens of thousands on them over the years. You buy a machine (close to ten between mine and the kid's) thinking that it is ready to go for a lifetime from a well established and recognized brand only to find out that it needs $1,000 worth of fixin'. After 6 hours of use, we have a Sentinel filter guard and an axle vent (presumably, I haven't checked yet) upgrade.

What do folks do when they don't have the money or mechanical ability to resolve this stuff????

I don't see that whole "finding problems" as being quite so negative. Finding and fixing problems is the best way I know of to make things better.

rScotty

"Progress requires imagination; getting it done is just engineering"

 

[Shawn T. W.]

I was looking at mine this morning, and the "vent plug" is on the steering knuckle, so if a barbed vent and hose were used, there would need to be quite a bit of slack in the hose to be able to turn, too easy to snag of brush in my opinion with that much hose out ...

Might be better to tap into the fill plug, which is plastic and on the Left Side (sitting on the seat) it doesn't take a standard wrench, I use a pair of channel locks ... This is closer to the frame, and only moves slightly up and down ...

Or get a barbed fitting that will just screw into that fill opening ...

My Kubota L5030 also doesn't have a vented front axle, I only recently got it, it has 3900+ hours on it, the front axles are dry on the outside, no telling if it was ever worked on, it does not have a loader on it, which in my opinion seems to be the cause of most front end problems ... I will say though, that when I went to change the front axle oil, when I opened the fill plug, I could HEAR air moving, not sure if it was being sucked in, or pushed out, tractor had not been used for over a day ...

 

[rScotty]

SNIP

My Kubota L5030 also doesn't have a vented front axle, I only recently got it, it has 3900+ hours on it, the front axles are dry on the outside, no telling if it was ever worked on, it does not have a loader on it, which in my opinion seems to be the cause of most front end problems ... I will say though, that when I went to change the front axle oil, when I opened the fill plug, I could HEAR air moving, not sure if it was being sucked in, or pushed out, tractor had not been used for over a day ...

You can hear the air move? Wow....now I wonder how much the pressure changes inside that unvented L5030 front axle housing?

Amazon sells a small vacuum/pressure gauge for ten bucks.... -30 to + 30 psi.

A black painted axle in the sun gets hot all by itself even if not being driven. We could probably make arguments for that being enough pressure to force oil out past the seals... or if submerged - like in a creek or rice paddy - cooled air might cause enough vacuum to pull water in past thouse same seals.

Stretching it to an unlikely worst case, the temperature change could cause the pressure to swing enough to turn that axle housing into a crude temperature-driven fluid pump: Oil out & water in... and all because of no vent....

Of course the same thing could be said for the 3rd member or rear axle in any tractor, truck, car or whatever...but those are always vented...Nobody wants oil soaked dry brakes.

rScotty

 

[Shawn T. W.]

Like I said, I've only had it a short time, bought in in July last year, but no signs of oil leaks, and when I drained it, no sign of water either, it's parked in my barn too ... It's my big lawnmower, I've only put maybe 20 hours on it.

It wasn't like it was 100 PSI, just a tiny woosh, which I thought strange ... But I'm sure I heard it for a split second.